II Peter 2:7-8


Lot was a man who lived in a city of sin, which changed him and caused him to act in unjust and unrighteous ways.

Now Spider i would rethink what Yahshua says about his coming when he did as a Babe. Lot Is Called Rightous. What scripture can you copy and paste that says such a thing? Shalom...Miles

Miles, it is already quoted above.

Oh misunderstood Spider.. Sorry..

May Yahweh's Graciousness Be Upon You...Shalom...Miles

So is that why he offered his two virgin daughters to the mob?

Yes. He tried to do something good (saving the people of Soddom from judgment) by doing something bad (giving his daughters to the crowd).

So god basically considered that a reasonable trade off? He did refer to Lot as "just" and "righteous" even after he did such a thing. To me, to give up your family like that is unforgivable. Whatever the people of Sodom were doing could not compare to Lot offering his children to that mob. That's just the way I feel about it personally though. Thats based on my own sense of morality.

The key words being your "own sense of morality".

This was about 3000 years ago on the other side of the world. Morals and social values change over time and they have changed drastrically since that particular time.Your judging Lot according to social standards that did not exist in his world. He was a man of integrity because he was honoring the law of hospitality which was paramount throughout the ancient world.

God never called Lot a just or righteous man. He was mentioned as a righteous man a few times in the New Testament, but always with the caveat that his soul was vexed by the wickedness of Soddom.

las vegas?

Yes we already went over all of this on the other thread. It doesnt matter if its "my own sense of morality" Lot offered his own flesh and blood to an angry mob to be raped and potentially murdered. He had NO way of knowing if the men would refuse the offer of his daughters. Rape is a crime of power and control and the sex act itself is generally less relevant to that objective. One would only need to visit any state correctional facility to witness this social dynamic in use. Heterosexual men will rape.

Thats unacceptable.

In the Middle East when you bring someone into your home, yes you are offering them your protection. Im sure that is not meant to include giving up your own family for sacrifice. Thast wont cover Lot's behavior at all.

Now I may be wrong.

But I believe the NT is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I also believe this Holy Spirit comes from Yahweh that inspired it.

So I am lost as to how Yahweh is not calling Lot Righhtous and Just? Shalom...Miles

The social values that people live by have changed in 3000 years

Did God say "You surely will not die!" to Eve? No, that was recorded as proceeding from the mouth of the serpent. Did God say it? No. Was it inspired to Moses by the Holy Spirit? Yes.

There is no doubt that Lot was a righteous and just man at some point in his life. And being removed from the influence of Soddom, he probably became a righteous and just man again. But God never called him that in any scripture of which I am aware.

more about lot? thats alot about lot.
someones shoppin' at big lots.

its so funny in these forums ,unless you post something that can be disputed or come up with a very intelligent bullsh!t answer you get ignored.so heres what i think as an american...fu*k all you motherf*ckers.so is this a disputable answer...it will get ignored but at least i can move on to better things

So you do not believe when it is recorded the Lot was/is Rightous.

That they were not speaking of his Rightouness at Sodom and Gommorrah.

I find that hard to muster.

Tell me what you can find that says anything about lot doing anything wrong thier. What did Abraham have to say to Yahweh about not destroying those 2 cities? Shalom...Miles

I'm not going to play a game with you Miles. I don't view Christianity as a game. What I posted is correct and supported by the Bible. If you believe that Lot giving his daughters to a crowd of rapists was a just and righteous act, then you are in the minority. I don't know that I have seen a single Jew or Christian argue that Lot's actions were entirely righteous. Was Abraham a righteous man? Yes, of course. Did Abraham have his wife lie and have sex with other men to protect Abraham's own life? Yes. No man is perfect except Jesus, so even the righteous man sins. Lots actions of offering his daughters to the crowd and of getting so drunk that he had sex with his daughters without knowing it were not righteous acts.

I agree. I have answered the question a bunch of times on here and the other thread

I will say it yet again. Moral values of societies change over time.The values of the time and society in which Lot lived were radically different than ours.