drop em off on a deserted island go for what u know

Wow, people realy do suck.

yes they can suck at times

and just the thing this poor woman wanted to happen to her before Christmas, or on any day of her life for that matter.

This is a tragedy, and my prayers go out to the victim.

This type story is also why my ultra right wing conservative friends and I tend to vote for harsher criminal penalties in rape and murder cases.

This thread has made me wonder one thing.

Why is a lesbian rape victim more deserving of our support and protection than a heterosexual female rape victim?

To me it seems that the rapist should be facing the same punishment for raping a woman out of lust or greed as they would be punished for raping a woman out of hate.






PS I suspect that most, if not all the people in this thread will agree that any rape of a woman is a terrible thing. I am merely wondering what are the logical reasons for supporting hate crime legislation.

It wasn't just a rape. It was a hate crime.

That is what I do not understand. Why should a lesbian rape victim be treated differently than a heterosexual rape victim?



Or to look at this from another perspective, what if the story ends up being slightly different.

Let us pretend for a moment that two guys led this rape, and actually did the physical crime.

Guy 1 raped her because he hates lesbians.

Guy 2 raped her because he lusts for the victim.

Should these two guys get the same sentence, or should they receive different punishments for the crime?

Melaschasm, for some one who has said 'I can not imagine a worse crime than a guy trying to have sex with another guy', I am not sure you would find the following credible, but thought I would post it anyway.

http://aclu.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=706


By the way it has both the pro and con version..

rape is never about lust its about making someone feel helpless its about control rape isnt about sex its about violence he raped her because is the worst form of humiliation a woman can endure motive aside the crime is the same

NEVER is rape about lust! All of the men did this because they are violent sociopaths. It's unbelievable that there are still people who think it's in any way about the sex!

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty".---Mohandas Gandhi



I see a bunch of victims here, that poor woman who was maliciously attacked by a group of men who decided that it was there right to "change" her. These men are also victims of societys idea that was implanted in there souls that it is ok to hate a certain group of people for making a personal life choice that differs from there own. I am no way saying that they should go un-punished but the only way we are going to see things like this come to an end, is to cleanse our whole society from the idea that Hate and Intollerance has a place in this world, as we are all only here for a short while and all we are need to see ourselves as brothers and sisters that are only trying to live out our lifes in the best way we see fit

I'm with you brandon.

Though at least one of those men would not have gone home 'whole' even if I had to take a beating to make it so. In my case humiliation would not cross my mind, but fury would. women are raped at all ages, so many woman have taken matters into their own hands and have sought out classes to defend themselves. At my age a .357 will have to replace classes.

that would be great but for hate to go away

we would have to be rid of fear

to be rid of fear we would have to be rid of the unknown

to be rid off the unknown we would have to be rid of ignorance

to be rid of ignorance we would have to do away with will
because ignorance is as much willful as it is bliss

Replace fear with curiosity, and there u have your answer and the cycle is broken

not really one can be curious but afraid to investigate then we still have ignorance the cycle is still strong

Why do we need to differentiate between “hate” crimes and “violent” crimes? This is a very important question because those who don’t fully understand the reasoning, will never approve of broadening the law.

Definition of: Violent Crime vs. Hate Crime

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nviolent02.html
Dept of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation

Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. According to the Uniform Crime Reporting Program's definition, violent crimes involve force or threat of force.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html

Hate Crime definition (not currently in law)
Also know as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origion

Violent crimes - example:
A person, or group decide to rob a small store. They bring a gun, the store clerk or a customer gets hit. The robbery was premeditated, the motive was money. The shooting did not occur out of any bias or hate, it most likely occurred out of fear, accident, or a sudden burst of rage, for not attaining the goal, money.

The news reports it and you notice it’s the store right down the street from you. Think real hard, be real honest – how do you feel about that? What runs through your thoughts? Let’s say the description of the offenders is printed: 3 white males, approx ages 17 to 25, no remarkable markings, all wore jeans and knit hats. One had a class ring, police sketches identify the ring from a local high school.

Again; how do feel? Are you angry, are you thinking, dm kids what are they doing? Really be honest.

Now let’s say the description is this: Three young black men, identifiable marks, same tattoo on back of right hand, all wore black leather jackets and sunglasses. Has your attitude changed at all? Do you feel less at ease with the situation, somehow more vulnerable? Are you angry and thinking what’s happening to this dm neighborhood, it’s not even safe anymore?

Another scenario of a violent crime:

You live in a very diverse town, very large and there have been reports of vandalism and robberies in your town. No one seems to have been hurt and only private property has been stolen or damaged. The vandals are all over the town, jumping from neighborhood to neighborhood, and back again, never seem to be caught.

Finally there is a town meeting where you discover that only homes being vandalized are families of mixed race. YOU happen to be such a family.

Do you suddenly feel more vulnerable? Now that you realize that the dice are loaded and YOU and your family are one, of only 3, in your neighborhood of mixed race. Will you take more precaution, will you worry more about leaving your teen agers home alone. Do you wonder WHY thy have only chosen those of mixed race to valdalize?

Then it happens the next day a news report. A neighborhood on the other side of town, a 12 year old home alone watching TV in the basement, unaware of a break in, is murdered, mixed race.

Now how do you feel? Do you feel hunted, do you feel as if your rights have been taken away by fear?

Is this just another violent crime?

The group is caught, but later that year, your daughter comes home from high school and talks about the vicious things she’s hearing about the “half-breeds” in the neighborhood. Defiling both white and black ethnicity, they’re just “half-breeds” and shouldn’t be allowed to continue breeding.

Now how do you feel?

What began as the prejudice in a few people has spread. It’s in the high school, that must mean it’s in the mainstream, are you afraid? Will you move from the neighborhood – how long do you think it will be before the hate follows you?

A violent crime ceases to be a violent crime when the thoughts behind the crime stem from bias, prejudice. Why is the thought so much more worthy of a higher punishment? Because those thoughts are so easily passed through the mainstream of society. They take root in the children who hear the jokes at home, who hear their father scream, "Your no better than those dm half-breeds" as they are getting yelled at.

A hate crime happens because of prejudice, and that prejudice was “learned”. When a hate crime occurs, the group that most heavily identifies with the victim, will suffer great anxiety, and in that anxiety they are often prevented from a normal life.

The victim of a hate crime, even a mildly violent one, suffers a great deal more than a random violence victim, because the victim was not random, rather, was chosen because of their personal identity; something they cannot change. Something a whole lot others, just like the victim, cannot change.

If society breeds such prejudice, how likely is it that sentencing of the perpetrator will be lenient? Consider the deep south, how many white males murderers did no time at all for murdering black people, of any age?

Hate crimes lead a large portion of our society to live in fear,sometimes that fear is so deep it interes with the "pursuit of happiness".

By categorizing hate crimes separately from violent crimes and making punishment strictor, and less open to interpretation at the judicial level, is to make all minorities feel as safe and protected, under the law, as the majority feel.

The hope is also that hate crime legislation and stricter punishment would send a message to the masses that prejudice is a stereotype we need to get over. We need to stop teaching prejudice, allowing prejudice, and send a clear message, that discriminating acts of violence, extending from prejudice, is a danger to all society and not just a random few.

Fear of the unknown is usless, If you have no knowledge of something, why fear it? It should be the capture of the knowledge you lack that should be your goal, not to allow fear to incase your heart, then that knowledge your soul craved is gone forever. If fear is taken completly out of the equation, and replaced with the curiosity and the quest for knowledge, it would end this alot of the turmoil that we have put ourselves in as fearfull human beings

that would make sense if we as humans made sense since we do not and are programmed with an overactive sense of self preservation anything we do not understand becomes a threat being that we are programmed to neutralize whatever we may see as a treat there in lies the basis for my equation in other words



*****es be crazy

Wow, that really got me thinking.

But after reading what you said it struck me that I am quite safe in more instances than others are, I am white and I can pass for straight, so in some sense I don't have to fear some of the scary rednecks in my area unless they should find out I am gay, and have a problem with it. I think when all people have experienced the vulnerability others do, that is the only time they might understand.

Maybe that won't happen until Whites are in the minority.. not that I wish a harsh lesson on anyone but it would be nice if people could actually put themselves in the shoes of others and not have to ask why one group might need more help than another. They would already know why because they took the time to find out.

get u a can of bear mace and a stun gun and you'll be okay ps don't stun someone if they are touching u or you'll be shocked as well