This questions is meant for a Christian to answer.

As you are taught and feel the faith flow in you knowing that you are accepted by Jesus your savior into God's home or heaven when you pass away, do you feel comfortable knowing that not EVERYONE will make it to that heaven you are invited to?

I ask for if it is true (and I know it is for you) that this God who has rules on how to get to a better place full of happiness and joy by only just accepting Jesus as your savior then how can you leave your brother or sister behind if he or she doesn't believe.

Do you not have a guilty conscience in doing so?


Now for me personally, I would tell my savior that I cannot go to heaven until everyone can go with me. Meaning if God says well," I am sorry but they had their chance and they chose not to accept me?"

I will say that they do not believe as we do, but I still think they should come to a better place regardless if they didn't know!

It is not that they don't know, it is just that they can't believe because they are raised in believing in something physical instead.

For example: Can you not show a miracle to make them believe. Show somekind of sign that you are real. I guarantee you that then all will follow you.

Yes you have done it before with Jesus, but it didn't influence everyone. Can you do it again for modern times sake. Come down as a human for all I care but do miracles that will astonish the world. Have answers that we as humans cannot answer and wonder all the time. Can you do this?

If I was a Christian, I would not go to heaven until all my brothers and sisters regardless in what they believe in can go also with me. I say this because as a humantarian at one time, I had a choice to leave a friend and coworker behind when under attack by guerilla fighters. I didn't because I believe his life was just as important as mine. We made it out alive for he deserves to live just as much as I do.

How are your thoughts on this as I ask respectfully trying to understand your reasons of how this works? Could you write in your own words the answers or beliefs you have for me? Thank you

Thank you your sites jester

it is written in many places in "scripture" that we ALL have Free Will...which gives us the ability to make our own decisions for ourselves...and are faced with trials and trivulations endlessly, inthe process..."my belief's" are written in the Holy Bible as is EVERYONE else's too...and it tells us ALL to be doing HIS work { JEASUS CHRIST } and to lead everyone that we can to HIM for salvation....." I myself " am a believer in the Holy Trinity !...I had a wreck several years ago which left me with a crushed face, 98% loss of sight, traumatic brain injury, broken neck, broken ribs, punctured lungs,dis-located shoulder and hip, crushed left ankle, and many parts throughout my body where some black iorn pipe { for natural gas } drove into me from the impact...I was in a coma for 3 1/2 months, and was told that I'd never be able to walk, talk, eat sleep or do ANYTHING normally EVER again...I started PRAYING and asking God for His forgiveness of my sin's, and to Please Help me through this ...AND HE DID !.....according to the doctors, Im supposed to be dead by now...BUT through the Power of Jeasus our Lord and Saviour, I am still here and doing exactly what He has asked us all to do ---Spread the Word !..." we are supposed to ask everyone to come to Christ ", and by doing so " we are doing His work " which He asked us to do. Praise God !

I see that the Bible gives you much strength and happiness. You have quiet an experience I must add. May you continue to enjoy the Bible, which gives you happiness and strength.

The question: Even though you believe and others don't, would you feel comfortable going to heaven leaving those who don't believe in Christ the savior behind?

Think about that for a moment!

Now I know you will say "Well they had their chance to believe", but I ask you as a human who has feelings,"Could you leave those who don't believe behind to go to hell or no where or what have you?"

Do you as a human believe all life is sacred regardless what the mind thinks?

I for one believe everyone belongs in a better place regardless what they believe in at the moment.

And you must also think about those who never seen the bible or had it in their hands. Do you believe they too should not come with you to heaven?

What are your thoughts?

Here is another example:

We are friends for a long time. We decide to go fishing in a lake. A accident occurs and we flip over crashing into the water. You tell me at the last moment you don't know how to swim!

I save your life by swimming you back to shore.

Now we are 90 years old. You tell me that you believe Christ is your savior and you will be allowed to go to heaven.

I say well I can't believe that for I believe everyone belongs to heaven regardless on what they think.

Of course we are good friends and don't argue about it.

Now we die at the same moment. Yes I know it is a rare thing, but let us say it did happened.

You are going to heaven! Congratulations, but your best friend who was always there for you, and helped you through good and bad times is not.

Would you still go to heaven without him?

Or would you say something to God trying to convince him that he belongs in heaven also regardless if he doesn't believe in God?

What do you say?

Smiless,

I have a question: How do you feel about Christians proselyting?

Well John I can actually answer this question as a Christian. I was a Christian for the first 30 years of my life. Although I confess that I had been raised into the religion and did not chose it based on my own intellectual or intuitive reasons.

None the less, I was a Christian. And yes, this very question was indeed deeply troubling. As were many other questions.

As you well know I tried to resolve these questions and I finally realize that the religion cannot justify these notions and thus I have discarded the religion as being ungodly.

I truly view it now as a totally godforsaken mythology that never had an inkling of spiritual or divine truth to it.

Am I bitter about it? Yes, but I'm certainly not bitter with the false God. That would be utterly ridiculous to be bitter with a God that doesn't exist. I am a bit bitter though (or maybe disillusioned is a better word) by the people that believed in it and supported it.

I can't see why they didn't recognize the falsity in it themselves. So I'm truly disappointed in them for not having saved me from such utter nonsense.

This doesn't mean that I'm an atheist.

I'm not so foolish to believe that just because a particular mythology isn't of God that this would mean that there is not God. That would be just as asinine.

I have since recognized that pantheistic or animistic spiritual pictures of 'god' are much more realistic. There are no losers in pantheism and animism.

One thing that most Christians never consider is this:

Supposedly the biblical God creates every soul.

But then he must 'compete' for that soul with a fallen angel.

This is already a very sad situation for a creator to be in. He has to 'compete' for the very souls that he creates.

However, if you read through the doctrine you will see that this God is a major loser!

According to the Bible, God had to flood the earth to destroy the bulk of humanity at one point because they were totally won by Satan.

In that story alone God lost the vast majority of the souls that he created.

That's a loser God!

Later, he supposedly send his 'only begotten son' to earth to rebuke his own previous teachings to mankind.

God's son was named Jesus. And according to the Bible Jesus also taught that God is a loser.

Jesus taught that the path to the Kingdom of God is straight, and the gate is narrow and few will make it.

Well, clearly if few make it into the Kingdom of God then that majority of souls that God created will be lost.

So according to the Bible even Jesus has verified that God is a major loser.

Once Christian I know has tried to salvage God as being a 'winner' by trying to claim that Satan is actually the 'Father' of humanity. And that we are all children of Satan until we accept Jesus as our savior and then we become children of God.

Well, that's a nice try to save a horrid picture. But the problem with that picture is that that would make Satan the creator of life and not God!

Clearly that is a truly desperate attempt to try to save an absurd mythology.

What I have come to realize is that most Christians are more concerned with saving a mythology.

Here they have a mythology that claims that we have all fallen from grace from our creator, and that we are all guilty of being responsible for this God having to have his son nailed to a pole to pay for our rebellious attitude.

And they asks us to believe this on pure faith?

What?

Why would anyone want to believe such a horror story on pure faith?

My God! Who would want that story to be true?

Surely even the most devout Christian would celebrate with the greatest joy if they suddenly discovered that the Bible is false.

Who could possibly be disappointed to discover that the Bible is false?

A person would need to be a masochist to be disappointed to discover that the Bible is false.

If the Bible is false it would mean that we never fell from grace from our creator, and that God never had to have his son nailed to a pole to pay for our rebellious attitude.

Who wouldn't be absolutely thrilled with this?

Anyone who actually wants the Bible to be true has to be a serious masochist.

No one should believe in the Bible on pure faith alone.

That's absurd. Why would anyone want to put their faith in such a horror story.

The only people who should believe it are people who have been totally convinced that it has to be true beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Why anyone would want to believe it on pure faith is totally beyond my comprehension.

It's truly a horror story of both man and God.

Where I live it happens all the time. I of course respect their views, but expect the same kind of respect back as a non-religous person.

Unfortunately, it isn't always the case.

I would be interested to know what you believe on the questions I ask on this thread.

I certainly don't have 30 years of studies in the Bible, but I must say that it does trouble me that a human who dies and becomes a ghost or spirit can go to heaven (because he or she believes) yet can leave his friends or loved ones behind just because they don't believe in the same thing.

For me it is sad and if I may add a bit cold. I hope people will realize one day we are all the same product one way or another with the same basic needs of neccesseties seeking warmth, acceptance, love, and a occassional encouragement to find happiness and joy.

If I was a Christian, I would truly not go to heaven unless everyone can go with me because I believe everyone regardless of what they feel should be allowed the same benefits as me. I guess I would be called the Captain of my sinking ship and all on my ship leave first before I join them.

Now that is my personal decision. What others think is of course entitled to them. Go to heaven without me my dear Christian friend, but remember I will save your life if you had drowned in that ocean.

Well after many years of contemplation I've come to a very simple conclusion:

If I were to discover that the Bible were indeed true and the Biblical God came to me in person and asked me, "Are you going to accept my gift of eternal life or not?". I would tell that God right to his face, "No thank you. You can take your gift and shove it. I want no parts of it."

I would be totally disapointed in God if God truly is like what the Bible says.

If God truly is like the Bible demands that he must be then I feel very sorry for God. He would be a very sad deity indeed. He would not have won my love at all. On the contrary all he would have won is my pity.

Sure, he could do something very mean to me for feeling pity for him instead of love.

But what kind of a God would be so sick and demented as that?

That would only show just how truly pathetic he would truly be.

The biblical story of God simply can't be true. If God were truly like that story claims he would be the most pathetic creature that ever existed.

So the worst nightmare I can possible imagine is that the Bible is true. That would be the purest form of hell that I can imagine.

To discover that God is truly that pathetic would itself be hell.

What I believe is that God is holy. If you read the forward and first chapter of Mere Christianity, you will understand what that means. Basically, God is the only ally we can trust and we make ourselves his enemy. We frequently do those things which are wrong, but expect that God should just forgive us. If you punched your neighbor 90% of the time when you saw him and gave him a dollar 10% of the time, would you expect him to be your friend? We work daily to make the creator of the universe our enemy, when we desperately need him and his protection. God has reached out to each of us and will judge us each fairly. Those who aren't saved will be mourned, but nobody will stand before God and demand anything. We will all know how insignificant we are and how benevolent and holy God is. Any indignation or pride or anger we expect to feel towards God will be wiped away by experiencing how truly good God is when we are kneeling before him in praise.

Thank you for sharing your views on God and your faith.

I am curious to know that even though a individual doesn't practice the lessons from the Bible or gives his faith to Jesus as his savior, but lives a great life raising a family, helping those who are less fortunate, staying out of trouble, and living a life that doesn't harm others, but has a different belief system cannot be accepted to go to a better place when he or she dies.

I fail to understand how that individual would be judge not going to a better place when he or she dies.

The person simply doesn't believe in Christianity, yet didn't say anything bad about it, didn't throw punches at the belief system. He feels more comfortable believing in a different system that makes him happy in the morning.

Now I see that the question is yet again avoided:

Perhaps a yes or no would suffice this time.

If you scroll up and read about the fishing trip and your best friend saved your life because you didn't know how to swim. At age 90 you both die. You go to heaven and he doesn't. Could you accept this decision God made?

If yes - Would you not even try to convince God that he is a good person even if he doesn't believe in you(God).

If no - Then explain why for me.

Nobody is a good person. I don't look at the world as "He's a good person, but that guy is a bad person". That's a judgmental point of view. I look at everybody as a sinner in need of a savior. The criteria that God uses for salvation isn't for me to determine or question. I have faith that God is good, therefore I trust that God's judgment will be good. If I were worried about my friend, then I would try to convince him of God's truth. I could hardly blame God or consider God unfair if I didn't convince my friend to accept Jesus. And I could hardly consider it God's fault when my friend made the choices in his life on his own. I'm sorry, but I can't help it that some people make bad mistakes, God took, that into account. That is what Jesus' life was for. If someone, even a close friend or family member has no interest in accepting Jesus, then I won't hold that against them and I certainly won't blame God if he finds that person guilty.

What I don't understand is that a God one can create peace, harmony, and love without the need for violence, negativity, harm, or other methods that are painful.

Why couldn't he/she/it have created everything without these negative elements. Many will say then there isn't anything to do, but I think personally that a God is 1 million times more creative then our simple human minds and therefore believe he/she/it could have created life without the need to eat each other up to survive (meaning other plants or animals that are living) - without violence (meaning we have to kill each other because of difference of opinion or the greed for power) or simply the competitive mind to show we are better then the other.

I am certain if a God truly exists as I envision it personally could have created such a world if wanted to and still be very entertained regardless.

Okay so you don't blame God for his judgement. That is fair, but you can see your loved one go to hell regardless because he chose not to believe in the God who offers heaven and salvation?

Perhaps you are right. Maybe as a spirit we lose our feelings or memory of who we lose as friends or love ones that it isn't so painful in the end.

I wish you peace of mind and a great Christmas Spider

Now that I think about it, I can imagine that some would not save me from drowning.

I can imagine that a belief system is truly important for that individual and would ask if I believe in what he or she does before deciding to prevent me from drowning in the lake.

I shed a tear for those with such personalities.

That is an insulting and unfair analogy.

There is a huge difference, which should be obvious, but I will assume you simply don't understand.

Hebrews 9:27 says "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

Everyone gets one life and then comes the judgment. Nothing I could say on the subject would matter. Those who have chosen to reject God will get what they want, they won't have to be in God's presence. Why would you want to be with a God in death, which you rejected in life? Why should God want someone in his presence who rejected and reviled him? Why should God reward his faithful and their persecutors in kind? Your belief that all should get into heaven speaks of an amoral god who would view Hitler and Mother Theresa as spiritual equals. My God values goodness. My God wants his followers to be repentant of their sins.

Because I won't stand before God angry that those who rejected him are in turn rejected by him doesn't mean I would let someone die. Your religious beliefs are of no matter to me. If you reject Jesus, then that is all. That doesn't mean I can't be your friend or neighbor or treat you with respect. The Bible commands that Christians treat their neighbors and enemies with love, even those who aren't Christian. Your implication is despicable and you should be ashamed for insulting the morality of so many people with your absurd post.

I know this will mean little to you, but I'm not here to argue. If this post isn't clear, please ask questions. But if you make any stupid posts like the one I replied to, then I'm done talking to you. I won't waste time with someone who will jump to conclusions or throw up straw men instead of actually discuss issues which they pretend to have an interest in.

You say: That is an insulting and unfair analogy.
There is a huge difference, which should be obvious, but I will assume you simply don't understand

My answer: Assuming is a big reason why so many wars have happened in this world. Please don't assume it is a terrible thing to do.

The difference is not huge if you see it from a different perspective. Try it and you will understand.

I do understand a great deal of things, but perhaps you don't agree with them. That is all there is to it.


You say: Everyone gets one life and then comes the judgment.

My answer: Are you 100% sure

You mention: Hebrews 9:27 says "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

My answer: It is appointed unto men once to die is written by a human being who knew exactly what he was doing when writing this. To control the masses and made sure to have everyone obey his rule.


You say: Those who have chosen to reject God will get what they want, they won't have to be in God's presence

My answer: One doesn't reject a God if they believe in a different belief system that is not identical to the Christian faith.

You ask: Why would you want to be with a God in death, which you rejected in life?

My answer: I don't reject a God and even if I did wouldn't a God smile regardless and let me go to a nice place anyway. Why shouldn't he? What harm can I do to someone who created me? I am sure someone with such potential can understand beyond a doubt that every lifeform is special in its own way.

You ask: Why should God want someone in his presence who rejected and reviled him?

My answer: It isn't that I reject a God, I reject the rules to enter heaven for I believe all should enter regardless if one believes or not.

You ask: Why should God reward his faithful and their persecutors in kind?

My answer: Because he created everything knowing exactly what he is doing. Therefore if he is all holy and all mighty, he has nothing to fear.

You say: Your belief that all should get into heaven speaks of an amoral god who would view Hitler and Mother Theresa as spiritual equals.

My answer: My belief is those who don't believe in Christianity yet live honest lives without killing, hurting, or destroying other lives should have the same right at the end of the tunnel.

You say: My God values goodness.

I say: OUR God values everyone

You say: My God wants his followers to be repentant of their sins.

I say: Our God wants everyone to enjoy life as it comes and knows that we are not sinners on this planet, but mortals given a chance to see greatness in everyone.

You say: Because I won't stand before God angry that those who rejected him are in turn rejected by him doesn't mean I would let someone die.

I say: As I posted this thread, I was not angry and still am not angry. Why should I be? I am asking questions of how a person can believe in a God who gives rules on how to act as a human and what to believe in order to make it to heaven.
I so happen to believe that man who saved the other from drowning and lived a peaceful life before his death is allowed to see greatness in his afterlife just as much as the Christian man.

You say: Your religious beliefs are of no matter to me.

I say: Your religious belief is of matter to me for I value you as a person. May you find peace in your heart even for those who don't believe in you.


You say: If you reject Jesus, then that is all.

I say: I don't reject anyone, but find difficulty in the rules of how to enter a heaven without feeling guilty for those who don't make it. I believe everyone goes to a better place not only a select individual who must follow a certain principle to enter such a place of glory Christians so praise.


You say: That doesn't mean I can't be your friend or neighbor or treat you with respect.

I say: You are already my friend and neighbor for a long time. I only wish you the best of life and a true happy ending. I mean it!
Yet I find it sad that you believe that those who don't believe in Christianity will end up somewhere that Christians dread. I am a non religious person who travelled to many many countries who has seen the most particular religious belief systems that have never been talked about since I joined this site. In the long run what was important is I saw happiness in those faces and enjoyment with their families. I participated in their welcomes.


You say: The Bible commands that Christians treat their neighbors and enemies with love, even those who aren't Christian.

I say: I surely hope you are not showing love to me as a enemy for I am the one who would save your life even if I believe that all will be saved regardless in what they believe in. Would you do the same for me?

You say: Your implication is despicable and you should be ashamed for insulting the morality of so many people with your absurd post.


I say: First you write you respect me and at the end I should be ashamed. Well what is it?

I say that your opinion is different then mine and I can respect that you believe in something that works best for you. I see you cannot do the same when others believe differently for I have never in this post insulted you or the morality of people. I simply ask for clarification and understanding. I do hope you find peace in your mind and understand that over 6 billion people who live in different demographical areas grew up with different belief systems who all claim that it is the right path to go. I can understand this. Can you?

You say: I know this will mean little to you, but I'm not here to argue

I say: I don't see any arguement here and for the better of the doubt please write your opinions on the next email and I will leave it alone at that. I realize that the majority of humans always need to have the last word. I shall give it to you. May you find peace not only with your fellow Christians but also to humanity itself who truly are your brothers and sisters.

You say: But if you make any stupid posts like the one I replied to, then I'm done talking to you.

I say: For some this is a reasonable post that comes to the minds of many who ask. I do hope that even preachers in churche's will react differently and not claim that such questions are absurd, shamefull, or stupid and try with their best efforts to explain why they believe in the teachings of the bible and what it means.

I know you have tried to explain to me and I thank you for that. I am sorry that I do not agree on your answers. I am sure I showed respect nevertheless.

If you wish not to talk to me because of the questions I ask then I can only wish you all the best in your endeavors as my doors will always be open for you when you need to talk.

You say: I won't waste time with someone who will jump to conclusions or throw up straw men instead of actually discuss issues which they pretend to have an interest in.

I say: I have not shown a conclusion. I have asked for opinion and gave examples if such a action would happen why wouldn't that person not be accepted to heaven.

I today still don't have answers to a great many of questions I have posted. Some have the answers they think is right for them. I appraise them for it. I am sure you have the answers in your own mind also that you feel are right. I appraise you for it.

I wish you a great holiday season and may you find peace in your mind and heart for everyone who posts in this forum regardless if they don't agree with your views.

Since a relationship with God Jehovah & Jesus is personal maybe people should know for themselves before they commit anyone else to it. Yu think?

...for those who want to get past the dogma of religion that is.

Smiles you have to remember that your memory is going to be erased when you get to heaven.You will not remember the life you used to live.You will reconize people you knew down here but it won't be like it was your family and those people over there is their family.In heaven you will all be one family.If people you were close to didn't believe in God you probably wouldn't even knew they existed to begin with.It would make you sad if you remembered them and they were not there and we all know that sadness is not part of heaven.Although I loved my Grandfather he was not a Christian and thought the whole thing was made up.I do not expect to see him in heaven.He lived to 91 and had plenty of time to make up his mind.I do believe he is in Hell for his stubborn ways and there is nothing I can do about it.

When I read something like you just posted Thomas it truly makes me sad.

You can just shrug off well-meaning people and let them be condemned to hell simply because they can't see any divinity in the Bible?

I hate to say this but it's true. The men who tortured innocent women during the Burning Times were thinking just like you.

They figured the woman was a 'witch' and had turned against God and sold her soul to the devil. So they totured away until they forced her to confess (we know today that anyone can be made to confess to anything if tortured long enough).

Then they'd burned her alive at a stake in the town square and think the whole time that they are doing it for God.

Excuse me Thomas whilst I go puke.