Hello Sky

Do you think that ignorance is as simple as 'lack of knowledge'?

Forgive me if I wander a little as I tend to think out loud ...

I am thinking about 'knowledge' that is used in an oppressive way ... is that not ignorance? ... justified ignorance...

Is intolerance of any kind not a form of ignorance based on some kind of knowledge?

It has to be about more than knowledge or the lack of. A desire to learn is critical ... but does 'what' one learns not dictate a level of ignorance?

If there were a white elitist of some sort ... to use an abhorrent example ... and they took it upon themself to study all the things which supported a high place on the totem pole because of skin tone then they would have much knowledge to support their ignorance.

I call it ignorance because in the example there is only one perspective. Perhaps that is another key in moving out of ignorance then ... the ability to see other points of view ...

Sorry Sky ... we crossed posts there

Does ignorance not dictate a behaviour pattern? How would you separate one from the other?


...and perhaps I am too abstract ... it is the place I like to swim ... human and abstract

No problem. Swimming in the abstract is much more fun than slogging through the mundane.

I tend to adhere as strictly as possible to dictionary definitions when there is no other common background to give meanings to words. So with that, ignorance is defined, quite simply, as the absence of knowledge. (“uneducated or lacking knowledge” according to my dictionary.)

What you have been describing is, to me, the causes, effects, results, circumstances, types, areas, etc. of ignorance. Not ignorance itself.

Now of course I understand that all that “meta ignorance” is really what the OP is all about. But without some sort of stable point of agreement (i.e. definition for “ignorance”), the problem then becomes trying to figure out exactly what it is that is being discussed. That is, trying to figure out what the proposed problem is instead of trying to figure out a solution to it.

So…

Yes, I would say that ignorance dictates behavior to a degree. But I was operating off the assumption that the issue was the causes of ignorance not the effects of ignorance.

And yes, there is no doubt that behavior can also affect the assimilation of knowledge, and thus can cause ignorance. That’s sort of where I was going with the motivation thing. Rather than address the behavior itself, I was trying to address the cause of the behavior that led to the ignorance. i.e. what are the motivational factors behind the behavior that leads to ignorance and how might they be mitigated.

I think the ultimate ability of wisdom one can attain is the ability to see things from others perspectives.

If ignorance is the lack of knowledge and ability to use that knowledge to gain perspective from any angle, and wisdom is the "ability to apply knowledge or experience or understanding or common sense and insight"

Then to me wisdom would be the opposite of ignorance. Just a thought.

Excellent!!! I think that’s very insightful Billy.



Although I state it differently, I believe the principle behind that is one of the most important in all of human experience. So much so that it is fundamentally the most direct path to what could be called "enlightenment".

My wording of it is: The ability to assume any viewpoint at will.

Now it must be noted that there are two sides to this.

The first one is as stated and is fairly easy to grasp - in a limited sense anyway. The absolute sense sometimes takes a bit of imagination, but has some quite astounding ramifications.

The flip side is this: the ability to assume one's own viewpoint at will.

That sounds quite strange at first but is really very important. An example of this would be the attitude expressed by the platitude “It's good enough for _____ so it’s good enough for me.” All too often, we become “stuck” in the viewpoints of others. The ability to “unstick” from those other viewpoints is critical to being able to “think for oneself”.

Ignorance is NOT the opposite of knowledge.

Knowledge is NOT always the sister of wisdom.

Experiential and inherant wisdom, are NOT old age and a college education.

Ignorance IS not knowing the difference.

I don't think that the U.S. is really far behind all nations in education. It is about 20th maybe in science and maths? One could google that easily...

I would say that ignorance is accustomed to habit, or a way of doing things that ignores other factors that might deter it. It is isolation from a thinking comunity that is some threat to the mind set of a person. So they sit, do what they do, and are in most repects out of the loop of themselves and others.

What is wrong with the culture of the U.S.?
Well it could look inwards more. We think about technology alot, because the people good at producing it. I think that the country stills has the most Nobel Laureates, so we have some good grad schools and technical fields with educational opportunities. There are also good science facilties. So technology and progress i that sense is stressed, but the human mind still processes more data than any of our chips do in a second. The best machine on the planet is the human body. Why is it neglected?

Another downer on U.S. culture is that it has a bad healthcare system and diet. Most people are well off enough to eat decent, but simply don't. The declining health of the state is going to be a big concern with everyone in another 10-15 years. How much of an edge do you expect to have with bad fuel? Also, there is the notion of healthy practices in lifestyle, of wellbeing, that are barely understood, if at all implemented in the lives of the county's inhabitants. A life without adressing the whole person, the spiritual side and munching both, degrades culture and value of education. The school's could worry less about getting the best deals and more about what is best for the students at lunch time. I heard a school went organic and tried to be more healthy, and had an IQ raise of a few points within either a semester or academic year. Local business could be incorporated into these endeavors.

Some smart young people look on success as a bad thing. They see people who have it all turning out to be miserable when they die in big mansions and the like. Or they are bombarded with atheletes on shows who spend 400, 000 USD on their bodies. But anyone with half a brain can see that the people have empty lives besides their extravagent care. Such media braodcasts put the word success into a bad category for many youths. This is something that needs worked on. More proper examples of people that have made it should be shown. Greed is often seen in bad light as well. But if one doesn't have enough money to have well being, then that harms everyone. The self could be more stressed in our society, the idea that good business helps both parties and that what is good for oneself is in the interest of everyone.

The U.S. is stable Enough, but it is just out of whack. The main problem I see is kids and young people growing up that forget themselves when they are told to get a job and buy an ipod or new game sytem. What is that? If the thought more centered on themselves, they would save, invest, do some small holiday traveling with friends, you know, experience life a little. I did this for a stent of a year or so. A few weeks ago I went to a bridge and threw my ipod off of it. It was a hassel and had drugged music on it anyways (about sex, drugs and a following use of success and money, which is another problem). We could use some good music, and it would benifit many people. That is something that song writers can keep in mind.

Politics are in a hype and frezy now. It is tense. The more the public gives in to this 'reality show,' the more ignorance will blosom, and culture decline. I have noted my view on what ignorance is and some problems and suggestions on U.S. culture.