Does Religion Make You Nice? Does atheism make you mean?

By Paul Bloom
Slate Magazine
http://www.slate.com/id/2203614/pagenum/all
November. 7, 2008

Many Americans doubt the morality of atheists. According to a 2007 Gallup poll, a majority of Americans say that they would not vote for an otherwise qualified atheist as president, meaning a nonbeliever would have a harder time getting elected than a Muslim, a homosexual, or a Jew.

Many would go further and agree with conservative commentator Laura Schlessinger that morality requires a belief in God-otherwise, all we have is our selfish desires. In The Ten Commandments, she approvingly quotes Dostoyevsky: "Where there is no God, all is permitted." The opposing view, held by a small minority of secularists, such as Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens, is that belief in God makes us worse. As Hitchens puts it, "Religion poisons everything."

Arguments about the merits of religions are often battled out with reference to history, by comparing the sins of theists and atheists. (I see your Crusades and raise you Stalin.) But a more promising approach is to look at empirical research that directly addresses the effects of religion on how people behave.

In a review published in Science last month, psychologists Ara Norenzayan and Azim Shariff discuss several experiments that lean pro-Schlessinger. In one of their own studies, they primed half the participants with a spirituality-themed word jumble (including the words divine and God) and gave the other half the same task with nonspiritual words. Then, they gave all the participants $10 each and told them that they could either keep it or share their cash reward with another (anonymous) subject. Ultimately, the spiritual-jumble group parted with more than twice as much money as the control. Norenzayan and Shariff suggest that this lopsided outcome is the result of an evolutionary imperative to care about one's reputation. If you think about God, you believe someone is watching. This argument is bolstered by other research that they review showing that people are more generous and less likely to cheat when others are around. More surprisingly, people also behave better when exposed to posters with eyes on them.

Maybe, then, religious people are nicer because they believe that they are never alone. If so, you would expect to find the positive influence of religion outside the laboratory. And, indeed, there is evidence within the United States for a correlation between religion and what might broadly be called "niceness." In Gross National Happiness, Arthur Brooks notes that atheists are less charitable than their God-fearing counterparts: They donate less blood, for example, and are less likely to offer change to homeless people on the street. Since giving to charity makes one happy, Brooks speculates that this could be one reason why atheists are so miserable. In a 2004 study, twice as many religious people say that they are very happy with their lives, while the secular are twice as likely to say that they feel like failures.

Since the United States is more religious than other Western countries, this research suggests that Fox talk-show host Sean Hannity was on to something when he asserted that the United States is "the greatest, best country God has ever given man on the face of the Earth." In general, you might expect people in less God-fearing countries to be a lot less kind to one another than Americans are.

It is at this point that the "We need God to be good" case falls apart. Countries worthy of consideration aren't those like North Korea and China, where religion is savagely repressed, but those in which people freely choose atheism. In his new book, Society Without God, Phil Zuckerman looks at the Danes and the Swedes-probably the most godless people on Earth. They don't go to church or pray in the privacy of their own homes; they don't believe in God or heaven or hell. But, by any reasonable standard, they're nice to one another. They have a famously expansive welfare and health care service. They have a strong commitment to social equality. And-even without belief in a God looming over them-they murder and rape one another significantly less frequently than Americans do.

Denmark and Sweden aren't exceptions. A 2005 study by Gregory Paul looking at 18 democracies found that the more atheist societies tended to have relatively low murder and suicide rates and relatively low incidence of abortion and teen pregnancy.

So, this is a puzzle. If you look within the United States, religion seems to make you a better person. Yet atheist societies do very well-better, in many ways, than devout ones.

The first step to solving this conundrum is to unpack the different components of religion. In my own work, I have argued that all humans, even young children, tacitly hold some supernatural beliefs, most notably the dualistic view that bodies and minds are distinct. (Most Americans who describe themselves as atheists, for instance, nonetheless believe that their souls will survive the death of their bodies.) Other aspects of religion vary across cultures and across individuals within cultures. There are factual beliefs, such as the idea that there exists a single god that performs miracles, and moral beliefs, like the conviction that abortion is murder. There are religious practices, such as the sacrament or the lighting of Sabbath candles. And there is the community that a religion brings with it-the people who are part of your church, synagogue, or mosque.

The positive effect of religion in the real world, to my mind, is tied to this last, community component-rather than a belief in constant surveillance by a higher power. Humans are social beings, and we are happier, and better, when connected to others. This is the moral of sociologist Robert Putnam's work on American life. In Bowling Alone, he argues that voluntary association with other people is integral to a fulfilled and productive existence-it makes us "smarter, healthier, safer, richer, and better able to govern a just and stable democracy."

The Danes and the Swedes, despite being godless, have strong communities. In fact, Zuckerman points out that most Danes and Swedes identify themselves as Christian. They get married in church, have their babies baptized, give some of their income to the church, and feel attached to their religious community-they just don't believe in God. Zuckerman suggests that Scandinavian Christians are a lot like American Jews, who are also highly secularized in belief and practice, have strong communal feelings, and tend to be well-behaved.

American atheists, by contrast, are often left out of community life. The studies that Brooks cites in Gross National Happiness, which find that the religious are happier and more generous then the secular, do not define religious and secular in terms of belief. They define it in terms of religious attendance. It is not hard to see how being left out of one of the dominant modes of American togetherness can have a corrosive effect on morality. As P.Z. Myers, the biologist and prominent atheist, puts it, "Scattered individuals who are excluded from communities do not receive the benefits of community, nor do they feel willing to contribute to the communities that exclude them."

The sorry state of American atheists, then, may have nothing to do with their lack of religious belief. It may instead be the result of their outsider status within a highly religious country where many of their fellow citizens, including very vocal ones like Schlessinger, find them immoral and unpatriotic. Religion may not poison everything, but it deserves part of the blame for this one.

---Paul Bloom is a professor of psychology at Yale University, and author of Descartes' Baby: How the Science of Child Development Explains What Makes Us Human. He is currently writing a book about pleasure.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2203614/

not neccessarily, meaner of nicer, that depends entirely on the individual...... and satanists aren't devil worshipers either, contrary to popular belief. seperate bible altogether. when in new orleans, you get exposed to many different cultures and religions.


hi jazz

hiya darkowl, i hope you're well this fine day

Just from personal experience, most atheists I've known have been far nicer than most Christians I've know.

However, I must also say that recently (over the past few years), I've come to realize that Wiccans (or witches) are the nicest people I've met yet.

I truly wish that the whole world were made up of witches. It would be a beautiful place to live. I wish I had been raised as a witch.

I'm not talking about circus witches either. I'm talking about people who seriously take witchcraft as a religion and not as some sort of side-show for kicks.

I'm coming to realize now that the people who genuinley view witchcraft as their religion truly focus on love.

It seriously angers me to realize that Christians used to murder witches simply because of their utterly stupid and unfounded supersitions.

What a truly heinous crime that was.

I think history has shown beyond any shadow of a doubt that Christianity is a heartless religion that will slaughter anything that gets in its path.

Even today, modern day Christians slaughter the hopes of dreams of others via their ruthless arrogant proselytizing.

It's truly ungodly and inhumane.

I see Christians as the most arrogant and unloving people on the planet today. I also see their beliefs as being the most ungodly, and certainly the most un-Christ-like of all religions on the face of the planet.

Chrisitians are an abomination of Jesus and everything he stood for.

We're discussing this same subject on another site I'm on, same article if I'm not mistaken.

So, I'm just going to copy and paste my answer from the other site below.


Being "nice" and being "mean" is all about accountability, has nothing to do with whether or one subscribes to the idea that a higher power other than themselves exist.

I have friends who are both religious and Atheist, the religious ones offer to pray for me all the time while the Atheists and pagans, have emptied their cupboards and fed my children when I couldn't, filled my gas tank when it was empty, and held my hand when I was hurting.

One friend of mine, has helped me more than once financially and to be honest, I don't know if he's religious or not, I don't ask. He simply told me he's in a position where he could help and he'd like to if I'd allow it.

I believe in a higher power but I am agnostic. I'm also an existentialist and a humanitarian. I'm nice to people because I believe they deserve to be treated that way. My "god" doesn't tell me to do anything, doesn't instruct me on how to live, doesn't demand I proselytize, and doesn't get me out of trouble or offer me absolution when I've screwed up... that's up to me to fix.

I am responsible for the way I treat others. It's my choice. It's my personality. "God" has nothing to do with it.

Difference with Atheists is, they don't blame god, place responsibility on god, or say god told them it was okay to do something and "prove" it in a holy book. They (a true Atheist, not someone who is anti-christian-god type atheist... the angry ones who are just pissed at Christianity) take responsibility for their own actions; most Atheists are existentialists and humanists. At least the ones I know and know of are.

People don't need a god to have a good moral foundation, they need a heart and a good spirit, and preferably, someone who stands by that foundation and teaches them well.

Religion doesn't make you nice. It makes some people think they are. I think if anything religion tends to make people hypocrites.

gee abra i usually agree with you but this mingle christianity bashing campaign you have going can perhaps be counterproductive to your cause. I hate to regurgitate this tired old cliche but it is indeed true you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Perhaps if you tried to fight with some sensitivity to go along with your logic you would more likely get the religious folks to do some rational introspection rather than have them all offended and defensive, dismissing your quite logical argument as the rantings of someone who is bitter and angry.

Also, witchcraft...um...meh...to each his own

Abra put it a bit harsh but he's right.

And Wickan to me is just another religion like christianity.
You will find both mean and nice people in any walk of life.
I find as individuals christians can be nice but as a group they are some of the most hate filled people on the planet.
And again that can be said about most religions.
They are all the same.

I generally practise the "treat people the way you want to be treated" and "personal responsibility" business. I don't know what I believe in but, I think there could be a god. Why not?

Since I was raised christain I can say that I like certian aspects of Jesus' teachings. That's not to say that they were his alone.
Do I believe everything in the Bible? No, that to me seems rather uneducated (I had this arguement with the family this week). Realistically I can't believe it when I know of so much that was done in the name of that faith.
I had to actually ask my father who could have written the Bible. He said God and I laughed in his face. Religion makes people like my father a "Goddamned Hippy" and he doesn't even realize it.

But, that's not the point here. I know a lot of people who aren't religious and a lot who are. In my experience the ones who profess to have a faith are often "meaner" and more likely to exclude people based on superficial reasons like skin colour or how they dress.

To me, I can't see treating someone that way just because my pastor happened to interpret the passages of an ancient book (likely written by old, rich, controlling men) that way.

Are people who eat chococlate icecream nicer than people who eat vanilla icecream?


Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!


The rot and the rabid rubbish that one is subjected to in some of these threads is almost ludicrously funny.


People decide to be more of their natural self, when they DECIDE to, irrespective of the vehicle that gets them there!!!!!!!!!!!!







GGGggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

(Insert Giant bloody huffy footstomp here!!)

I pretty much go along with the idea that any type of a gang or group of like minded philosopically charged people is some kind of way of try to pull the faith or a belief in a certain dicsipline of the origin of man down to mans way of thinking. We don't know what all was involved in the creation of mankind. So I will say that no, one group is not any nicer or or meaner than another. There are however extremist type of people in any group. A group of about 50 people should be plenty big enough to work together and supply everyones needs in that group.

exactly

ya all better be nice, the nice police will get you, I ain't kiddin either. not only that christmas is coming and I know you don't wanna be on the naughty list!

GOD


WANTS


RELATIONSHIP


WITH


US.....



NOT



RELIGION!!!!


Relationship with God

ALONE.....

CHANGES

a STONY Heart

into a

Heart of LOVE !!!



It is GOD and GOD ALONE,

Who

CHANGES

the heart of man

from

WITHIN.



Religion on the other hand,

only "attempts"

to bring about a change

from within....

but only brings change

from

WITHOUT ONLY!!



Just RELIGION alone

(without a heart change from within)


will NEVER

change a stony heart

into

a heart of FLESH(LOVE).

EVER......

Yes well many here don't attribute the upbringing of themselves or their friends & people they know as to why they gave. People who give are unbelievers who have fallen away but once did believe. I'm glad for that. I can not imagine a world where people are totally selfish from not knowing better. Thank God for those who led the way.

All the glory goes to God still, even today.

TRUE CHRISTIANITY

IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD

NOT RELIGION!!


AND WHEN THERE IS RELATIONSHIP

WITH GOD

THERE IS LOVE!!!

NOT HATE!!



WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW

IS LOVE SWEET LOVE !!!!


GOD IS LOVE!!!!

Jesus was one smart dude! He summed up the commandments into two...

Mark 12

30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

In Exodus 19 & 20...all the Lord's commandments are acts of love...toward each other. Keeping Him before us was our daily conscience, our innocence, everything we need for life & living. Even God's admonishments are not rejection but for our good. His uttermost love toward us & our uttermost love for Him. It is attainable.

16 Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled.
17 And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.
18 Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain[a] quaked greatly.
19 And when the blast of the trumpet sounded long and became louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him by voice.
20 Then the LORD came down upon Mount Sinai, on the top of the mountain. And the LORD called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up.
24 Then the LORD said to him, “Away! Get down and then come up, you and Aaron with you. But do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the LORD, lest He break out against them.”
25 So Moses went down to the people and spoke to them

20
1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “ Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

18 Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off.
19 Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.”
20 And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.”
21 So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was.

oh good, it's another the bibles real because the bible says it is.

go read the political threads

to get first hand knowledge

and come to your own conclusion

the answer is there waiting for you to discover it