Concerning the five rites:

You should not do them so much that they hurt, and you should not strain yourself doing more than you feel comfortable doing.

The first time I did them (and they looked so easy) I could not believe how out of shape I was.

I only did three each.... for a week or two.

Then only when I felt strong enough to do four or five did it do four or five.

Your strength will grow and grow.

One day you will find extreme pleasure doing them.

jb

James, it sounds like you're way ahead of the curve when it comes to visualization. I have the hardest time with that and it took me a long time to be able to do that.

Don't rush it. You may try something every day with no results at all. And, then one day, bam! It happens.

Precisely. And, it does you more harm than good.

I had forgotten this. Thanks for reminding me. I need to work on this a lot.

For Real or Make Believe?

When it comes to things like the tree meditation I have no problem with it because it's all in my imagination.

I'm imagining the tree, I'm imagining becomming the tree. I'm imagining being the tree. And I'm sure I can imagine becoming the various birds and actually flying around.

I have a wild imagination. I've always been told this by teachers as well as friends an coworkers. In fact, I really should be doing more artwork because I can envision things in my mind quite vividly.

I enjoy these meditations where I am to imagine things (like becoming a tree). In fact, there are quite a few meditations like this in Penczak's meditation CDs.

Where I have a problem is taking shamanic journeys into real objects.

I don't want to just imagine it on my own. And maybe that's the block.

I could imagine becoming a crystal without having a crystal in my hand at all.

But the idea is to genuinely sense the actual crystal and pick up on its vibrations.

Maybe I'm asking too much?

But it seems to me that if I just do my own imagining then what's the point to it?

I mean, either there's something to be said for actually getting vibrations from other objects, or there isn't.

I'm not prepared to 'fake it'.

I want something to happen that goes beyond my mere imagination. Otherwise who am I kidding? Myself?

Maybe this will take some time to cultivate. But I'm not going to pretend to have psychic experiences with objects when it isn't truly happening.

I have felt drawn to some physical objects in the past. So maybe I need to keep trying with different objects until I find something that truly does something for me.

I may actually do better with my athames. I'm going to try them next. One at a time.

I do feel a calling to both of them. So maybe that will help.

I don't truly feel a calling to the wand crystal yet. In fact, in some ways I feel like it needs to be 'charged'. For some reason I feel like it has been totally grounded.

Maybe that's true.

I just ordered two more wand crystals. These are more crude. Maybe they will speak to me.

I tend to like crude stuff.

This wand crystal that I currently have may not speak to me at all until I find a suitable handle for it and fashion it into a full-fledged wand.

Maybe it needs to reach its full destiny before it can speak to me.

The trick is to stop trying. But you have to keep trying. I know it makes no sense. Here was my first experience with something similar.

My coven was sitting in a circle and we all held hands. Each person took a turn thinking of a number, then a shape and then later an animal and we would try to "see" in our minds what they were thinking. I was quiet for a long time while everyone threw out their "guesses". I tried really to actually see something in my mind. but, everything that came was something I was making up and I knew it. Finally, I just relaxed and focused on nothing.

It came to be the turn for the girl right next to me....the one I was holding hands with....to think of an animal. I just relaxed and didn't try to visualize anything or think of anything. That's when I saw black and white stripes. I just stayed relaxed and let them come. I said, "zebra" but that wasn't it. I waited and saw it more clearly. I said "tiger". That was it. More importantly, she was visualizing a black and white striped tiger. It just happened when I stopped trying. But, I was still trying. I was trying to just relax and focus on nothing.

Does this make sense?

Yes it does actually. It makes a lot of sense.

I think one problem that I'm having is the way that Penczak does this meditation. Thus far I've been using his CDs almost exclusively to meditate with. Other than the shaman drumming that I do on my own. But in the drumming meditations I'm not 'going anwhere'. At least not yet. I just get lost in the drumbeat.

In any case, in Penczak's "Object Meditation" he talks you through it. He begins with the relaxation, then the countdowns (I have more to say about those too), and finally he takes you through the meditation journey.

In the 'Object Meditation' he has you begin with your awareness in you head. Then he has you go down your neck though your arms and to your fingertips that are holding the object.

Then he has you 'enter' the object. And he asks you what do you see?

At that point I see like total nothingness. Or blackness actually.

I think part of the problem is that I'm trying to see something without imagining it!

I don't think that's going to work.

I think the imagination needs to play a roll. I think that what is required is to be in my imagination, but not in control of it.

Let the crystal take control of it.

I think I'm so afraid of controlling the imagination myself that I flatly refuse to go into my imagination in the first place.

I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but I think I might have a better clue how to do it already having just typed this.

I definitely need to be in my imagination, but not in control of it.

This happens all the time in dreams.

In fact, let me talk about a dream I had associated with Penczak's countdowns.

The Meditation Countdowns

Penczak uses a method of meditation that begins with countdowns. At first I was totally thrown for a loop by this, but then later I understood his reasoning behind it.

He begins with a countdown from 12 to 1. And then a second countdown from 13 to 1.

The first countdown is in honor of the God and basically represents the 12 months of the year. Penczak says that the God is associated with the walking mind and logic, etc.

So this countdown is suppose to be somewhat logos related. (i.e. wordy)

And so for this reason he does a very wordy countdown like so,...

12, see the number 12 on the screen of your mind, 12

11, see the number 11 on the screen of your mind, 11

10, see the number 10 on the screen of your mind, 10

At first this was driving me batty.

I didn't feel that I needed all that talking. Just say the numbers and owl dew the visualizations.

But Penczak explains that this first countdown is supposed to be wordy. I'm not so sure I agree with this particular quirk.

On the Screen of My Mind?

The other thing that bothered me was his reference to a 'screen in my mind'.

What do I need a screen for? My whole mind is a 3-dimensional landcape of imagination. Sure, I can imagine a screen with numbers on it, but why bother? I can imagine numbers anyway in the landscape of my mind. And they can be 3-dimensional and even moving, tumbling, or transforming in shape. I can even imaging the numbers transumting into the next number in the countdown.

In the early going I was having a problem with this because Penczak kept saying "See the number on the screen of your mind".

I was trying to imagine really cool 3-dimensional numbers, but his words were so distracting that I finally had to imagine a stupid screen with numbers on it.

Ok, so later I had a dream.

I was actually sitting on a large number 12. It was made of granite and quite 3-dimensional. In fact, the 2 was about 4 feet high maybe 2 feet wide and about 4 feet in depth.

Quite a large obelisk actually. The number 1 was standing next to it to make the 12. Both of these granite numbers were very old and weathered and they were covered with moss and vines.

I was sitting on top of the 2 in the middle of this large meadow. In front of me was a large screen. Like at a drive-in movie theater. On the screen there were numbers counting down. They were in black and white and looked like TV test pattern numbers. Like so,...



A old man dressed like an ancient indian walked up to me and asked me why I was watching the numbers on the screen.

I shrugged my shoulders and said, "This is Penczak's idea"

The man then motioned to all the numbers laying in the meadow. There were many 3-dimensional stone numbers all strewn throughout the meadow. Some were laying on their sides, others were upside down or tilted at various angles.

He said, "What's wrong with these numbers?"

I assured him that there's nothing wrong with them and that I intend on using them later after I get used to Penczak's motion picture numbers.

He just looked at me like I was really strange and then disappeared.



Now see, that man appearing in that dream came in on his own. I didn't imagine that character.

So I guess that's they way it needs to be with the crystal too.

I need to be in a dream of sorts and then just let the crystal come into that dream on its own.

This is what I really need to accomplish for many shamanic journeys.

I need to be in my 'field of dreams' and the just let these other characters or spirits show up on their own.

I think what I've been doing with the crystal is just shutting down the dream state altogether expecting to make contact with the crystal directly somehow. But I guess that silly. It needs to be done psychically through a dream. That's the true art of shamanic traveling I guess.

I'm learning.

Slowly but surely.

Things that go Bump in the Night

One thing that I found a bit strange when I first started reading about witchcraft was the constant reference to sweeping away negative energies, and in particular to defending against 'evil spirits'.

I can understand the need to sweep away (or neutralize) negative energy. After all, the whole thing is based on coming into harmony with energies and vibrations. So it makes perfect sense to want to start with an area that is free of vibrations or at least neutral in vibration.

I read somewhere that the witch's magic broom should be used to clear an area for meditation. One of the reasons given was to sweep away or neutralize any negative vibrations that may have been brought into your home via guests. You have no idea what kinds of thoughts or vibration they may have carried with them. Even friends could be harboring anger or hatred toward other people or things and they just carry that around with them in their aura.

Well, I live alone and no one come into my house. I don't think anyone has been in my house for at least 2 or 3 years. So my house only carries my vibrations (and those of my cat). I also never get angry. Some people might think otherwise when they read some of my posts, but in truth there's no anger here at all, at best there's some disappointment, disgust and maybe at worst some frustration. But certainly not anger.

I'm pretty sure my cat is putting out calm vibrations too. He's a total lazy bum.

So I'm not real concerned with any need to clear my space.

This has me wondering about the circle casting. It seems that the main purpose for casting a circle is for protection from evil spirits and/or negative energies. In some ways I feel like my cottage is already inside of a bubble of protection of sorts, just from the fact that I've been living here alone for so long.

I just read this tonight concerning the casting of circles:

While it's true that studies can begin in any direction that attracts you, the necessary first step must be learning to make psychic shields. There are "Things of the Dark" out there. There are any number of explanations for what these things might be-- ghosts, demons, or simply uncontrolled urges of the subconscious mind. In truth, it doesn't matter what they are. What does matter is that their effect is very real and unless they are put under your control, they will drag you over the borders of sanity into psychosis. You are most vulnerable to them while you're in an "open" trance or meditative state. That's why the wise practitioner always begins by taking steps to define exactly what will be permitted through the portals of their psychic shields-- no matter how simple the ritual. And this, in a nutshell, is what "protective magic" is about.

Now I can understand this line of thinking. And I'm even aware that during a meditative state a person is making themselves vulnerable. In truth, I personally don't think that a meditative state is anymore vulnerable than dreaming. Many people have terrible nightmares.

I can't recall the last time I had a genuine nightmare.

The other things too, when I had meditated years ago via Yoga and Buddhism, they never seemed to be concerned with any evil or negative spirits. I must have meditated for 3 years year in some pretty deep meditation, even out in the woods in places where I had never been before. I never cast any circles or did anything to ward off any evil spirits or negative energies. I never had a problem.

I've also been meditation a lot lately without casting circles. I can see casting a circle every time I meditate.

I was thinking that casting a circle had more to do with creating an excited state of your own personal aura. Not necessarily to protect against evil spirits, but actually to magnify and intensify a connection with the universe.

I guess I'm going to need to read a lot more about circle casting and the idea behind it. That is the topic of Penczak's second book "The Outer Temple". I'm going to read through all three of these books that I bought, and then come back and start doing exercises in all of them in greater depth. Each book is a 'year-and-a-day' study course. I didn't know that when I bought them. I'm going to be studying all three books in parallel. So I'm hoping to get through all three of them in a year and a day.

I'm not starting my actual intense study until the Winter Solstice with the rebirth of the God. That's when I plan on casting my first circle. Hopefully by then I will have had a chance to read through all three of these books superficially and I can start doing the actually exercises in greater depth from that point forward. I will have also charged both of my athame in the Yule ritual, along with my magic wand and a few other tools. I'm going to charge several musical instruments too. Including my bongos.

It's going to be a big ceremony taking the better part of a full day.

I better start reading faster if I'm going to stay on schedule.

P.S.

I just found this interesting tid bit. About circles. This witch says that circles are used to create a space between worlds, between the magickal and the mundane, between the time and timeless, and that it is used as much to contain and raise energy as it is for keeping energy out.

So this is more like it. This was more what I had in mind. I see it more as a way of intensifying energy and focusing it on the work at hand.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Penczak says in his "Outer Temple" book. By the way Ruth, the Outer Temple CD has some nice drumming on it too, one place is 22 minutes of pure drumming with no voice.

Anyway I found the following comments from a witch named Lady Bridget.

A circle is a safe, sacred space that we create. It is "between" the worlds, the magickal and the mundane worlds. It marks a "place that is not a place, in a time that is not a time". What we mean by this is that it is sort of a nexus, a place that can touch and reach all other places and people in time and space.
How does this happen? By intent and the will of the person or people who "cast" the circle. This vision is created so strongly on the astral plane that we can manifest it in the physical plane, and it creates a boundary past which energy will not pass, unless you send it out. The circle is used as a container, to hold the magickal energy that you raise (also called the "cone of power") until you are ready to send it out for a purpose. Ceremonial magicians will also use a circle at times for protection, to keep unwanted energies or spirits out. I use a circle more for containment rather than protection, but the protective element is good to have there anyway.

Here's a link to the complete page if you're interested:

http://www.ladybridget.com/w/wcircles.html

Psychic abilities can come about in as many ways as there are kinds of abilities. I believe everyone has psychic abilities. Some are born with them already functioning. Some go through life without using them and then one day they just start. For most of us, we have to work at developing them. The first step is in accepting that you can do it. That's the part that stops most people from going further. Once you have accepted that you have them you have to start doing exercises to bring them out. Kind of like a muscle you have never really worked out.

I try all different methods. Some I notice an improvement with over time and some I have no success with.

I had a couple of creepy experiences meditating. I felt something yucky come around. I simply visualized a white protective light around me and it went away. Burning sage during meditation is a good idea too.

I am interested in what you said about Buddhists using deep meditation and not worrying about anything negative. That's interesting. I'm going to have to look into this.

Well, I certainly can't speak for all Buddhists.

The meditation techniques I used from Yoga were taught by Richard Hittleman, and I don't recall him ever addressing any potentially negative results or any need to protect from evil thoughts, spirits, or energies.

This was back in the 70's though, so it was some time back. It is possible that he did mention these things and I just skimmed over those parts feeling that they just weren't applicable to me for some reason.

Although, I truly can't recall any mention of it at all.

On the Buddhism side of things I was particuarly into Zen Buddhism, I'm afraid I don't recall any specific authors for meditation techniques. I did read a lot of Allan Watts book on the philosophy and Allan Watts did have some meditation tapes out that I used at that time.

But again, I just don't recall any concern of evil spirits, energies or thoughts.

I think in both of these cases, (Yoga and Zen Buddhism) the authors were assuming self-improvement is the goal and just didn't even bother to address potential evil pathways.

I'm sure they both addressed the issue of clearly your own mind of any negative thoughts as part of the meditation process. But they never discussed any rituals, symbols, or charms to ward off evil thoughts, spirits or energies.

I think there may have been some mention of encountering 'scary visions' but these where treated as harmless thoughts, rather than potentially harmful entities.

Kind of like nightmares I guess. They can be scary but they can't hurt you. The main thing to do in those cases is to try to analyze what may be causing those thoughts to arise in from your real life experiences.

I think the goal was different too.

In those meditations the idea was to become thoughtless. To detach yourself from your thoughts altogether.

Shamanic journeys in witchcraft seem to be much more about existing within dreams and allowing the dreams to be guided by spirits, or learning to purposefully manipulate them yourself.

In the yoga meditation the goal was to lost site of the imagination altogether and ultimately experience the pure white light of thoughtlessness.

I could never achieve that on a consistent basis. I only reached the state of pure white light on a couple of occassions and as soon as I experienced I thought to myself, "Hey! It's the white light".

Well as soon as I had that thought I instantly found myself back in my imagination again.

You can't think analytically in the white light state. You need to 'just be' without any judgment at all, including the judgment that you're 'in the white light'.

It was too difficult for my scientific mind to deal with so after about 3 years of never being able to master the whitelight stage I finally gave up. I was satisfied that I got a glimpes of it enough to have some clue what it was about.

I know if Witchcraft ever goes there? It very well may. I only have the first 3 books of Penczak, I think he has at least 3 more in this same series plus quite a few others that are not of this series.

Is is possible that he goes into the white light at some future stage.

It's not the same as just 'imagining a field of white light'. I can do that in my imagination. It's different from imagination. It's hard to explain. When you're there you instantly know what I mean, there's no mistake about it. It's a state of being, not a state of imagination.

In this same series of books Penczak also has the following three books:

The Living Temple of Witchcraft vols One and Two, and The Temple of High Witchcraft.

I didn't get those two, and it's just as well because if I get through the first 3 in 2009 owl be happy.

I mean it's about so much more than just reading them. In a very real sense I feel like I haven't even begun my journey yet. I'm just becoming acquanted with things and discovering what it's all about so I can orient myself toward getting into a serious routine.

I'm definitly going to rework many of these meditations using my own music and possible even my own voice recorded on a CD. I do like a 'guided' meditation. It frees the mind from having to 'think' of what comes next.

I may intermingle 'thoughtless' meditations in with this. In fact, I'm sure I will. Owl do some of the old style meditations where I just don't think at all. Thus far Penczak hasn't mentioned this style of meditation, but then again, I'm only in his first book yet.

Penczak's style of meditation seems to be all about learning to control the imagination and then using it to allow psychic contact with other facets of the spirit.

It's good. This is quite different from the meditations that I learned from Yoga and Zen Buddhism.

I've always wanted to be able to have been control over my dreams and remember them better. In a sense Penczak's meditations are all about controlled lucid dreams. And how to allow other facets of the spirit (or other spirits) speak to you though those dreams.

It's great stuff!

And I don't care what Jeanniebean says.

I still feel that the art of witchcraft is a GREAT TOOL to use for learning to better manifest things via the law of attraction.

It's the same deal. It's just a more detailed and methodic route to learning how to manifest your intent by gaining a far greater skill of visualization.

At least that's how I see it.

Dark Left-Hand Path Neo-pagan here.

Welcome

I guess I'm going to stay out of the General Religion forum from now on. I just got reported for my 'anti-proselytizing' posts.

The Christians seem to be on the warpath and are determined to use the General Religion forum as their proselytizing podium.

Clearly they aren't happy with having to proselytize to themselves in the Christian Forum.

Proselytizing is all they are truly interested in.

So let them have at it.

Thank God they can't come in here spewing that crap. At least we have a safe haven from their depressing accusations that eveyone is at odds with God and must convert to Christianity in order to get back on board. What a load of crap.

Ok, enough of that. Owl just stay out of those godforsaken forums and be thankful to the real God for this safe haven.

I'm glad they created this place.

And thank you Ruth for having started this wonderful Wicca thread even though none of us are truly Wiccans.

And now back to your regularly scheduled Shamanic Journeys.

I agree. The General Religion forum has simply become the place the Christians now preach. There's very little interesting going on in there.

You have no idea how many times I have to slap my hand away from the keyboard when I read stuff there. (Kind of like biting your tongue in real life )

Well, we can thank the Goddess and the God, and Mike and Van, for this sanctuary from those horrid people.

Let them proselytize to their heart's content. And may the God's have mercy on their souls.

I'd much perfer to focus on Witchcraft and Shamanism.

It's a beautiful spirituality.

Any creator would be thrilled to be thought of so highly.

There is no insult to God or man in the Way of the Wizard, and that certainly includes Witchcraft and Shamanism.

It's pure love all the way.

Yep, it's like our own little world in here.

Give it time. It'll grow.

A lot of witches may not even know it's here.

Owl send a link to some of the witches I know.

I haven't even been to the other religion board or all the boards yet. I'm very tempted to go there with the sole purpose of pissing people off.