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| Topic: Pro-Life is Anti-Woman | |
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What happens when the condom breaks? Or, the pill doesn't work? Is that still the couple being irresponsible? Did I say anything about responsibility? You take your risks and you take your lumps. If a couple gets pregnant, they can find a couple who will pay all of their baby related expenses and give the kid up when it's delivered. Nobody says that life is without risks. If you make an investment that is a "sure thing" and lose your shirt, you don't get the right to kill someone and take your money back. Sorry, but sometimes there are consequences to your actions, I can't feel sorry for someone who has sex and then has to take care of a baby. I got my girlfriend pregnant, so I quit my job and moved hundreds of miles away (LDR) to be there for the mother and the baby. I would have a lot more money and have no bills other than utilities if I had stayed where I was, but I knew I had a responsibility. The idea of killing a baby so that I didn't have to change my life all around never occured to me. If you get a woman pregnant and decide not to keep the baby, feel free to give it up for adoption. But, to push your beliefs on others, that isn't right. Is a fetus alive? By every stand we have for judging life, that: YES. Is a fetus human? I think so, do you? Or are you like Obama and not sure? I support the right for a woman to choose what she does with her body. You do not. End of discussion. |
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What happens when the condom breaks? Or, the pill doesn't work? Is that still the couple being irresponsible? Did I say anything about responsibility? You take your risks and you take your lumps. If a couple gets pregnant, they can find a couple who will pay all of their baby related expenses and give the kid up when it's delivered. Nobody says that life is without risks. If you make an investment that is a "sure thing" and lose your shirt, you don't get the right to kill someone and take your money back. Sorry, but sometimes there are consequences to your actions, I can't feel sorry for someone who has sex and then has to take care of a baby. I got my girlfriend pregnant, so I quit my job and moved hundreds of miles away (LDR) to be there for the mother and the baby. I would have a lot more money and have no bills other than utilities if I had stayed where I was, but I knew I had a responsibility. The idea of killing a baby so that I didn't have to change my life all around never occured to me. If you get a woman pregnant and decide not to keep the baby, feel free to give it up for adoption. But, to push your beliefs on others, that isn't right. Is a fetus alive? By every stand we have for judging life, that: YES. Is a fetus human? I think so, do you? Or are you like Obama and not sure? Theologians and scientists can't decide/agree on when life starts. Is is when the soul enters the body, etc. |
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I support the right for a woman to choose what she does with her body. You do not. End of discussion. Changing the subject, clever tactic, but it's not going to work. From your response, I can tell I hit a nerve. So your position is either: A) You believe a fetus is a human and don't care or B) You don't know if a fetus is a human and you don't care. |
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Edited by
Winx
on
Wed 10/22/08 12:02 PM
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What I can't get my mind around is, how anyone can support (it and the man O) who is for partial birth abortions, or not caring for late (ICK!)term abortions babies that survive!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h80mSgsQ6CU (and they are waiting for O's apology for calling them liars.) BB I guess that you don't know the facts about that situation. Illinois already had this on the books. Obama has said that he personally is not for abortions. He is for the choice of others though. Obama feels strongly about having policies that would reduce the number of abortions -- support for pregnant women, abstinence education, the responsible promotion of birth control. Adding to my post: Palin says that she is for women's rights. No way on earth is she for women's rights. She doesn't approve of sex education or any of that. She even had rape victims paying for their own rape kits.  |
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Sounds like someone is angry at women. Oh is that the new mantra for anyone with an opposing view or those who want to inject some common sense into the mix... angry & white? Please!!!!! |
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Sounds like someone is angry at women. Oh is that the new mantra for anyone with an opposing view or those who want to inject some common sense into the mix... angry & white? Please!!!!! common sense??? angry and white??? leaving now 
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I support the right for a woman to choose what she does with her body. You do not. End of discussion. Changing the subject, clever tactic, but it's not going to work. From your response, I can tell I hit a nerve. So your position is either: A) You believe a fetus is a human and don't care or B) You don't know if a fetus is a human and you don't care. Can a fetus live on it's own, separate from the mother's body? |
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Sounds like someone is angry at women. Oh is that the new mantra for anyone with an opposing view or those who want to inject some common sense into the mix... angry & white? Please!!!!! You didn't read some of the things that he said. 
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Sounds like someone is angry at women. Oh is that the new mantra for anyone with an opposing view or those who want to inject some common sense into the mix... angry & white? Please!!!!! 
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Theologians and scientists can't decide/agree on when life starts. Is is when the soul enters the body, etc. If someone where tearing down a building and didn't know if there were any people in the building, shouldn't he wait until he knows for sure? Right now, so many people (Obama included) are willing to say "I don't know if a fetus is a human, but I support a woman's right to choose". What that means is that you are willing to take the chance that a fetus is a human, that's a chance you wouldn't be allowed to take in any other human endeavor. Just like my example above, you cannot risk killing another human, because killing a human by accident is at the very least man slaughter. If a fetus MIGHT be a human, then it must be given the rights of a human until it is proven that the fetus isn't a human. One thing I can tell you is that a fetus doesn't become a human when the mother says so. |
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Edited by
Winx
on
Wed 10/22/08 12:07 PM
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I support the right for a woman to choose what she does with her body. You do not. End of discussion. Changing the subject, clever tactic, but it's not going to work. From your response, I can tell I hit a nerve. So your position is either: A) You believe a fetus is a human and don't care or B) You don't know if a fetus is a human and you don't care. Can a fetus live on it's own, separate from the mother's body? There is a time at the beginning of pregnancy..ohh..I forget the name. Well, at that time, the fetus (it's actually not called a fetus yet) is just cells and doesn't even need to take nourishment from the mother's body. |
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 No, I just think that the Incest excuse for why Abortion must be legal is ridiculous. If you have to libel me to feel like you have made a point, then you have issue. If you are willing to commit libel and accept fallacious logic to hold onto your beloved right to infanticide, then that's your problem and one I am very happy to not share in. Now that you know that my friend's 12 yr. old daughter was raped by her step-dad and he is in prison for 15 yrs..... Now that you know that there is an older man on the next street from me that served time for raping a minor family member.... Now that you know that there's many cases of it in the news... I'll tell you about another friend. Her Uncle molested her and her sisters. They never talked about it until they were adults. Yep, incest is an excuse. WTF?! Let's say that 1% of Abortions are due to incest, does the 1% excuse the other 99%? I don't oppose abortions due to incest, but I do oppose abortions for frivolous reasons. Incest, rape and life of the mother are the only morally and ethically acceptable reasons for abortions. I know someone who got an abortion because she didn't want to deal with another kid. I know someone who has gotten several abortions because she doesn't like to use birth control. Those are not legitimate reasons to kill another human being. Be that as it may, if Roe v. Wade is overturned and abortion becomes criminalized, abortions will STILL happen - just more dangerous and deadly ones. You may not personally agree with abortion, but to make it illegal is just plain stupid. Hey, the KKK is going to lynch blacks even if it's not legal, so we might as well legalize it so that we know they are doing it the right way. Yeah, that makes sense. When has "They will do it anyways, so it might as well be legal" EVER been an excuse except for infanticide? EVER? Things that are going to happen anyways, so we might as well make it legal... 1) Incest 2) Rape 3) Molestation 4) Murder 5) Theft 6) Assault 7) Wife beating ... Do I need to go on? Your reasoning on that is terrible, come up with a better reason than "they are gonna do it anyways" or give it up! There are a lot of crimes that people are going to be doing anyways... You're comparing abortion to all of those things you mentioned above??  Abortion is killing a baby human, so let's measure infanticide against those seven items on the list to see which is worse. 1) Incest - The child still lives and can have a normal life. Winner: Abortion 2) Rape - See #1 3) Molestation - See #1 4) Murder - Abortion is murder. Winner: Tie 5) Theft - Abortion is murder, theft is simply a property crime. Winner: Abortion 6) Assault - Assault in itself refers to a beating which leaves the victim alive. Winner: Abortion 7) Wife beating - See # 6 Abortion is equal to or worse than all of those crimes, so I'm not sure what your objection is. Do you think that killing a baby is a less serious crime than stealing a taco? 1.) Kindly STFU about things you know nothing about. You cannot use logic and only logic in every situation. Abortion =/= rape =/= theft =/= wife beating (WTF?). In cases of rape, molestation, incest, etc., yes the child will live, but their experience of the world is forever changed. They may go on to have physical, emotional, and mental problems... may end up attempting or committing suicide. You can't compare these.. it's a LOGICAL FALLACY, a weak analogy. 2.) Everyone has their own view of what abortion is and isn't. Personally, I don't think abortion should be a crime at all. 3.)If abortion is legal, women have access to clean facilities and doctors who know what they're doing. If it becomes illegal, women will have to resort to back-alley abortions, coat hangers, throwing themselves down stairs, etc... resulting in MORE deaths, not fewer. Your analogy is stupid, because regardless if murder is illegal or not, the consequences are the same. |
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I support the right for a woman to choose what she does with her body. You do not. End of discussion. Changing the subject, clever tactic, but it's not going to work. From your response, I can tell I hit a nerve. So your position is either: A) You believe a fetus is a human and don't care or B) You don't know if a fetus is a human and you don't care. Can a fetus live on it's own, separate from the mother's body? No. If your mother was in a car wreck and couldn't feed herself, would I have the right to kill her? One's ability to care for oneself should not be the determining factor in who is and who is not human. |
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all this comes back to the same - heads I win; tails you lose way of thinking
 not everyone will agree on everything repeating the same verse doesnt make it a song cant grown ups agree to disagree? cant grown ups agree to respect the views of others? One does not have to agree to respect another's views. wait what is wrong with me, if this was doable there would be no thread
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What I can't get my mind around is, how anyone can support (it and the man O) who is for partial birth abortions, or not caring for late (ICK!)term abortions babies that survive!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h80mSgsQ6CU (and they are waiting for O's apology for calling them liars.) BB I guess that you don't know the facts about that situation. Illinois already had this on the books. Obama has said that he personally is not for abortions. He is for the choice of others though. Obama feels strongly about having policies that would reduce the number of abortions -- support for pregnant women, abstinence education, the responsible promotion of birth control. Adding to my post: Palin says that she is for women's rights. No way on earth is she for women's rights. She doesn't approve of sex education or any of that. She even had rape victims paying for their own rape kits. And conservatives' response to that is... "Well SOMEBODY has to pay for it!" Not the victim.
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1.) Kindly STFU about things you know nothing about. You cannot use logic and only logic in every situation. Abortion =/= rape =/= theft =/= wife beating (WTF?). In cases of rape, molestation, incest, etc., yes the child will live, but their experience of the world is forever changed. They may go on to have physical, emotional, and mental problems... may end up attempting or committing suicide. You can't compare these.. it's a LOGICAL FALLACY, a weak analogy. 2.) Everyone has their own view of what abortion is and isn't. Personally, I don't think abortion should be a crime at all. 3.)If abortion is legal, women have access to clean facilities and doctors who know what they're doing. If it becomes illegal, women will have to resort to back-alley abortions, coat hangers, throwing themselves down stairs, etc... resulting in MORE deaths, not fewer. Your analogy is stupid, because regardless if murder is illegal or not, the consequences are the same. Kindly STFU about things you know nothing about. You cannot use logic and only logic in every situation. I was molested as a child, so unless you were also molested, you should kindly STFU about things you know nothing about. 1) That sucks. But the potential for someone to commit suicide doesn't outweigh the fact that every aborted child is DEAD. 2) Who cares what you think? Really? What matters is this: Is a fetus a human? That is the first question to be asked, but somehow you guys miss that one. If a fetus is human, then why doesn't it have a right to live? 3) If lynching were legal, white supremacists wouldn't have to worry about being arrested. What's your point? We should legalize infanticide so that those who kill their babies can do so safely and cleanly? 
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No, I just think that the Incest excuse for why Abortion must be legal is ridiculous. If you have to libel me to feel like you have made a point, then you have issue. If you are willing to commit libel and accept fallacious logic to hold onto your beloved right to infanticide, then that's your problem and one I am very happy to not share in. Now that you know that my friend's 12 yr. old daughter was raped by her step-dad and he is in prison for 15 yrs..... Now that you know that there is an older man on the next street from me that served time for raping a minor family member.... Now that you know that there's many cases of it in the news... I'll tell you about another friend. Her Uncle molested her and her sisters. They never talked about it until they were adults. Yep, incest is an excuse. WTF?! Let's say that 1% of Abortions are due to incest, does the 1% excuse the other 99%? I don't oppose abortions due to incest, but I do oppose abortions for frivolous reasons. Incest, rape and life of the mother are the only morally and ethically acceptable reasons for abortions. I know someone who got an abortion because she didn't want to deal with another kid. I know someone who has gotten several abortions because she doesn't like to use birth control. Those are not legitimate reasons to kill another human being. Be that as it may, if Roe v. Wade is overturned and abortion becomes criminalized, abortions will STILL happen - just more dangerous and deadly ones. You may not personally agree with abortion, but to make it illegal is just plain stupid. Hey, the KKK is going to lynch blacks even if it's not legal, so we might as well legalize it so that we know they are doing it the right way. Yeah, that makes sense. When has "They will do it anyways, so it might as well be legal" EVER been an excuse except for infanticide? EVER? Things that are going to happen anyways, so we might as well make it legal... 1) Incest 2) Rape 3) Molestation 4) Murder 5) Theft 6) Assault 7) Wife beating ... Do I need to go on? Your reasoning on that is terrible, come up with a better reason than "they are gonna do it anyways" or give it up! There are a lot of crimes that people are going to be doing anyways... You're comparing abortion to all of those things you mentioned above?? Abortion is killing a baby human, so let's measure infanticide against those seven items on the list to see which is worse. 1) Incest - The child still lives and can have a normal life. Winner: Abortion 2) Rape - See #1 3) Molestation - See #1 4) Murder - Abortion is murder. Winner: Tie 5) Theft - Abortion is murder, theft is simply a property crime. Winner: Abortion 6) Assault - Assault in itself refers to a beating which leaves the victim alive. Winner: Abortion 7) Wife beating - See # 6 Abortion is equal to or worse than all of those crimes, so I'm not sure what your objection is. Do you think that killing a baby is a less serious crime than stealing a taco? 1.) Kindly STFU about things you know nothing about. You cannot use logic and only logic in every situation. Abortion =/= rape =/= theft =/= wife beating (WTF?). In cases of rape, molestation, incest, etc., yes the child will live, but their experience of the world is forever changed. They may go on to have physical, emotional, and mental problems... may end up attempting or committing suicide. You can't compare these.. it's a LOGICAL FALLACY, a weak analogy. 2.) Everyone has their own view of what abortion is and isn't. Personally, I don't think abortion should be a crime at all. 3.)If abortion is legal, women have access to clean facilities and doctors who know what they're doing. If it becomes illegal, women will have to resort to back-alley abortions, coat hangers, throwing themselves down stairs, etc... resulting in MORE deaths, not fewer. Your analogy is stupid, because regardless if murder is illegal or not, the consequences are the same. Except he's only worried about the fetus' rights. |
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I support the right for a woman to choose what she does with her body. You do not. End of discussion. Changing the subject, clever tactic, but it's not going to work. From your response, I can tell I hit a nerve. So your position is either: A) You believe a fetus is a human and don't care or B) You don't know if a fetus is a human and you don't care. Can a fetus live on it's own, separate from the mother's body? No. If your mother was in a car wreck and couldn't feed herself, would I have the right to kill her? One's ability to care for oneself should not be the determining factor in who is and who is not human. Again, not what we were talking about. Not the same situation. |
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I'm out of here. There's no use at all in continuing this the way it's going.
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i think the problem with this is as follows:
Pro-life people think that life begins at conception and that abortion = murder, so to say that one doesn't want to inflict a moral view on someone else is as ridiculous as saying we can't legislate against shooting someone, even allowing for the special dependent relationship between mother and child. Pro-choice people disagree that life begins at conception and thus feel no compunction about removing whatever matter they so desire from whatever part of the female body to which it is attached. There will be no agreement or universally accepted legislation about this until there is a definitive answer regarding when life begins. And it's difficult to arbitrarily attach one point because the age at which the fetus can survive outside the womb changes with every scientific advance we make. And how could you say "this is when religious people have detected a soul?" |
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