Yes, it is the stigma attached to words like "occult" and "witch". That's why I usually refer to myself as Wiccan even though technically that's not true. Because Wicca is starting to gain some acceptance (slowly but surely) whereas "witch" and "pagan" still hold very negative connotations.

Yeah, Wicca has been around long enough now that people are well aware of it. Generally if I say Wicca, the reaction I get is oh, the earth religion or something close to that. Earth or Goddess. So that shows its quite recognizable.

I wonder. Do Wiccans today worry about the potential pitfalls of becoming a more "established religion"? Do they have concerns about that and does it cause any unrest? Like some that want to pursue that higher profile and others that would prefer to remain a little more low key?

Oh, yes, definitely. It is and will continue to become just as big a mess as all the other organized religions. That's why I'm not Wiccan.

I found it!

Oh okay, it fell below the line there. I forgot there were many pages.

That's okay. If I had done my duty and posted here today it wouldn't have gone down so far.

I have to say it's really nice to know someone missed it.

Ruth, Tu es magnifique!

Here's some more tributes to Goddesses.

This is a tribute to Goddess Gloria Jean

http://www.csonline.net/designer/ideas/who.htm

This is a tribute to A Different Kind of Wench

http://www.csonline.net/designer/ideas/dkw.htm

This is a tribute to Goddess LAmom

http://www.csonline.net/designer/ideas/lamom.htm

This is Doggerel to the Dog S1owhand

http://www.csonline.net/designer/ideas/Slow.htm

I apologize for the hijack on that last piece (maybe he's a form of the Horned God?)

But the rest are concerned with female deities, all of which could be associated with moonshine, black cats, and I know that at least one of them owns a magick broom.

thanks, James! No worries....we are just as much about god as goddess.

Well, I am anyway. No wait, that's not true either. Well, whatever, it's fine.

You have to keep in mind that if Wicca or any Pagan spirituality was totally female principle dominant, it would become self defeating and EXACTLY like Christianity. Not a good thing. The two are intermingled and equally important but in different ways and in differing capacities, just as actual men and women are unique and important in the strengths and weaknesses they embody.

What she said.

I wholeheartedly agree.

What I've read so far, the Wiccans believe in a female Goddess, but they don't necessarily 'worship' her, at least not dutifully as the Goddess never asked to be worshiped.

Moreover, there was no decree that male mortals are in any way lesser, or restricted in anyway.

In other words, it may be a religion that views their creator as a female, but it's definintely not a matriarchal religion. It appears to me, at least so far, that the religion is totally egalitarian with respect to gender. I could be wrong about that, but I haven't seen anything to the contrary yet.

The Mediterranean religions not only view their God as being male, but it is definiely a patriarchal religion restricting the woman in society, in even more so in marriage where the matrimony is definitely not viewed as an egalitaritian convenent.

The man has the clear authority.

I was just reading about the Wicca traditions and I was supprised to discover that some of them have a one-year trial period for marriage!

I personally think that brilliant!

The other thing is that their vows say something like "as long as the love lasts", rather than "until death do us part".

I thought that was also a bit more realistic than trying to force the issue onto biological existence instead of onto existence of the relationship.

These are all quite interesting concepts to me.

I'm going to start seeking Wiccan witches to date. I like the one-year money-back guarantee on marriage.


(no truly that's a joke), although not really.

I mean, I have always held that I would need to live with any woman for a full year (through all four seasons) BEFORE I would marry her!

I just view it as a LONG engagment period where we get to know each other by living together.

So by the time I get married I will have already satistfied the Wicca custom anyway.

Just wanted to add that I think women should demand the same thing from men. So this arrangement doesn't favor either gender. It just favors reason.

Yeah they do "handfastings" also which are much more I dont want to say, less committal, but certainly more realistic.

This is cool. New vocabulary.

I just did a quick search on definitions of "Handfasting".

It appears to be a ritual 'marriage' that lasts for a year and a day. The day at the end is probably to imply the accuracy of the time period. In other words, stick it out for at least the whole year precisely.

This way it's at least a year 'commitment'.

I'm all for this. In fact, I have actually suggested this sort of thing in the past without any clue that this was indeed a custom of some cultures or religions.

I think it should be taken very seriously in America. Especially in today's climate of people living together without any commitments at all. At least if they had the one-year covenent they'd have something to commit to. I imagine the idea is not to have chilren during this time in the event that at the end of this period it the couple decide to part ways.

I'm not sure how they view this. From my point of view it would be a very intimate 'engagement', with potential for long-term, but at the same time, offering an 'easy out' should the couple decide it wasn't what they initially thought it might be like.

In any case, I think it's a very good idea. Extremely pragmatic. Assuming they don't bear children and then break up. That would be irresponsible and harmful to the children thus violating their value of "ye harm none".

I'm all for it.

Owl put that in my profile.

Shaman seeking witch for handjob marriage.

Wait,... what was that term again?

Yeah, I think anything that you dont rush into, especially relationship wise is a good idea. I dont care what religion you are into or profess to follow. You just never know how things are going to go. Also it generally takes at least a year to really get a sense of how someone is going to be, bad moods, anger, disappointment. Just how they will function under stress. Marriage is a LOT of stress. People always forget about that and then it bites them in the ass.

Bonjour, ma belle Ruth

Tu es dans toutes mes pensées


Tes yeux, j'en reve jour et nuit



Tu es pour moi la plus belle

Mirror

I have no idea what you said, but I've missed you and am so glad you came to say hi to me.

I MirrorMirror

Tu me manques,chéri chérie




Entre deux coeurs qui s'aiment, nul besoin de paroles


À toi, pour toujours


Lee