On any given Sunday, you can go to the beach in Santa Monica, and see a memorial to those US soldiers who died in Iraq. Arlington West, the memorial is put up and taken down every Sunday by volunteers. Indeed, on Memorial Day, a crowd gathered at the Santa Monica pier to hear decorated US Marine veteran, Ron Kovic, speak about the significance of the war. Ron compared Iraq to Vietnam, drawing parallels as he grew increasingly heated.

That day on the beach a visitor could inhale the heady fragrance of the sea, view the beautiful young girls, and hear the children play. They could also view flag shrouded caskets and facsimile crosses, neither of which we ever see on the nightly news.

Some might say these four thousand died for our freedoms, but many more would say they died for a massive and continuing lie. From cradle to grave without savoring life along the way. No laughing little children to embrace them, No wonderful wives to stand beside them. No parents to honor and make them proud. No glorious beach girls to welcome them home with open arms and legs, no flowers to smell, no surf to frolic in, no LIFE to enjoy, all because some shriveled old men in Washington wrenched that life away and scratched 'duty' on their headstones.

All this I thought while gathering the crosses at the end of the day, reflecting on the names and faces of the dead. Pedro, Patrick, Roberto, Ryan, Chris and Gary. The day was beautiful, sunny and poignant, a day these thousands, and their families, would have enjoyed.

The war, based on fraudulent, 'sexed up' intelligent reports, has left us with five years of war porn. Debased US politicians, whores basically, either too cowardly or traitorous to face the truth, raped and pillaged two countries while mouthing words like democracy or freedom.

This letter is addressed to all those vets who decided, for one reason or another, to become spokesmen and women for the continued occupation of Iraq. Vets For Freedom, one group calls itself. Maybe you've seen them on TV. Earnest young veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, the group is effective and their message clear. "The surge is working-Now let's finish the job."

The pro-occupation website, Vets for Freedom, proclaims: "This week, we urgently need all Vets for Freedom members to write a short letter or email to their Members of Congress, asking them to fund the troops-without timelines or deadlines for defeat."

Without timelines or deadlines. Enduring bases, enduring losses, enduring crosses, and a hundred, or even a thousand years, of occupation, as casually mentioned by John McCain. Perhaps we can thank Jerome Corsi and T. Boone Pickens, backers of the Swift Boat vets, for giving the VFF a blueprint to follow. Recall that Corsi and Pickens, neither of whom served, dared to smear a decorated US veteran. Thus far, the Vets For Freedom simply state their case for continued occupation; US troops as heavily-armed cops on the worldwide block, courtesy of the American taxpayer.

What ever happened to "Mission Accomplished?" Wasn't this illegal war over long ago? Indeed, didn't former US Senator Mike Gravel say recently Bush should be sent to The Hague for war crimes?

When I listen to any veteran, no matter how earnest, no matter how patriotic, tell me that continued occupation of a sovereign nation that never attacked us is a good and noble idea, I have to question that soldier's common sense. Not question his loyalty or patriotism or courage, but question his rationale and rightness.






"There are only two things we should fight for," wrote US Marine veteran and author Smedley Butler, twice awarded the Medal of Honor. "One is the defense of our homes, and the other is the Bill of Rights." I doubt any US veteran, boasting of his wartime exploits and self-sacrifice, can argue with the author of War is a Racket.

I would like to ask any of the Vets For Freedom what freedoms exactly they are fighting for? The freedom of the Iraqis to ask, no demand, we leave? Guess not. The freedom of the American taxpayer not to fund this illegal and immoral war? The freedom of a parent to sue George Bush, **** Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld for the loss of their son or daughter?

I didn't think so.

And what exactly is the mission? Anybody know? Make the world safe and profitable for Exxon-Mobil stockholders? Mission Accomplished! Recruit future fanatics bent on revenge? Mission Accomplished! Add another million Iraqis to the roll of homeless refugees? Mission Accomplished-twofold! Spread DU over another segment of the population and landscape? Threaten Syria, Pakistan and Iran with the same dreadful nightmare under the presidency of Bomber McCain or Barack Obama? Waste even more inflated US dollars on the quagmire of Iraqnam, as this American empire of ours teeters on the brink of disaster?

Former Conservative Republican and outspoken patriot, Karl Schwarz wrote: "At dinner one night, I was meeting with a US Army major who was having a very deep battle of the conscience. Even someone trained to kill as a profession has a conscience and usually weighs the issues of right versus wrong, legal versus criminal, just versus evil This person was stationed at Landstuhl, Germany at the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. I was shocked to learn that many US troops have been delivered to Landstuhl on life-support due to a 'mystery' pneumonia. Many of them died at Landstuhl or were dead when they arrived (DOA)...still plugged into life support. They were not part of the official KIA stats in Iraq...by order of Bush and Rumsfeld. I was shocked to learn that many US troops also have chronic problems with DVT, or deep vein thrombosis, after they were given 'vaccines' MANY US troops have died or suffered major health setbacks due to heart attacks, strokes or pulmonary embolisms due to blood clots caused by DVT I was further shocked to learn that many of our troops are diagnosed at Landstuhl as having a rare disorderfrom 250,000 to 500,000 US soldiers could now have it The biggest shock of all was learning that vast numbers of our troops are now confirmed as having been exposed to Depleted Uranium (DU) with often extremely heavy concentrations of it found in their blood and body organsmillions of our soldiers now have ruined health and ruined lives. But, what really stunned me and broke my heart the most was something else this US Army major disclosed to me. Landstuhl, as the MSM told us, was receiving injured from the Iraq and Afghanistan "theater of operations" where the US was claiming so many successes. However, it was ALSO receiving wounded from places like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and TajikistanThis major showed me a DVD of photos from the triage, operating rooms and ICU. I have never in my life seen such horrible photos and I do not have a weak stomach."

A conservative estimate of the war-related deaths in the Middle East would probably exceed 10-20 thousand, perhaps more. Who knows? The Pentagon, by their own admission, doesn't do body counts.

Author of The World's Foremost Terrorist - The US Government,

Schwarz added: "Most of our US soldiers have very strong sense of duty, but they also have very strong senses of right versus wrong and they have good instincts to see wrong for what it is. In their hands are matters of life and death, and they do not take that as lightly as the arrogant bastards in Washington, DC."

Later that US Major said: "The US Army or Marines cannot tell you the truth, lest they want to face court martial and spend the rest of their life in Leavenworth. As for me, I am no longer concerned about making grade to colonel or general. I am resigning my commission and getting out of this web of lies and evil. I can no longer serve this nation and what it really stands for and what is does and will not tell America."

So what I want to know from my fellow veterans, and especially those prepared to vote for either candidate: What exactly does the war in Iraq have to do with the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights?

Longtime war critic, US veteran and historian, Douglas Herman penned the classic account of a historic Civil War battle, Gods & Generals--and Memories and lives near Bullhead City.
_http://www.rense.com/general83/sx.htm_________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired is, in a sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953

I am sooo thankful people like you were not born in the 18th century, you would probly protest the revolutionary war. *****ing and Crying on Not killing the Brits.

You speak a lot of Crap, and you can thank any soldier for that, that is what they fought for, your freedom of speech. You should be thankful you were born in America, you could have been born in China, where you could never speak your mind.

I think the founding fathers are rolling in there graves over the GOP attacks on our freedoms, the Illegal wire taping, the torture and the list goes on and on. Me thinks if you were born in China you would support that government as well.

If they are rolling in their grave, it is because of whiny brats like you.

You liberals are the first to call everyone who doesn't agree with you a Racist, and then you push your views on people.

You have your view on how the US should be run and I have mine, that is what it means to be a American, but you cannot leave it at that, you have to attack our troops, our government. You may think Bush is a Piece of trash, but to me, Carter and Clinton were Scum. And don't pull "They didn't kill anyone"

Carter could not handle Iran and Clinton did bomb Iraq wanting to remove Saddam.

You would have more logical arguments if you had a little history in your background. I do not recall calling anyone a racist and I dont push my views on anyone you freely chose to view this thread and topic no one put a gun to your head. Do you think when the founding fathers wrote the bill of rights that they intended for it to be disregarded?

"You liberals are the first to call everyone who doesn't agree with you a Racist, and then you push your views on people." I didn't say madisonman

You know what, you are right,you didn't put a gun to my head, so Speak your Trash, no sense arguing with you, you have a very narrow Vision and even more narrow mind......

Maybe you and Dragonbreath can find each other on mutual match, you 2 would be soul mates

What part of the Bill of Rights were disregarded?

fascism has made a comeback right here in the good old USA.......The Patriot Act and Civil Liberties
That Sound You Hear is Our Founding Fathers Climbing Out of Their Graves to Explain Freedom to Bush
Published February 15, 2006 by Timothy Sexton
Did you know? The overwhelming majority of Senators who voted for the Patriot Act never actually read it.
Takeaways

Pre-Patriot Act laws were enough to have stopped 9/11 if anybody had been paying attention.
Pres. Bush--defender of America from terrorists--was in office for nine months when 9/11 happened.
The Patriot Act contains provisions that are in direct opposition to the Bill of Rights.Choosing the perfect name goes beyond just coming up with a great moniker for your offspring. After all, the difference in quality of life for a boy growing up in a certain segment of society can't help but be great depending on whether he is named Nick or Percy. Percy may be okay for a well-off heir growing up among the elite of the East Coast, but it's hard to imagine a Percy having an easy time growing up in the ghettos of Chicago or East LA..... do your own homework at this link......... http://www.billofrights.com/the_patriot_act_and_civil_liberties.htm

You spoke too much giberish and I cannot read liberal that well, But you mentioned Bill of rights so I decided to post them so you can answer spaces question a little better

First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment – Right to keep and bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.
No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. Constitution.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of states and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

You had me until the last part, madisonman. When you said the very last thing, "Do your own homework," that was a direct and blatant attack, and I really do not appreciate it. I actually had a change of heart and decided I was going to be open minded enough to listen and see what you had to say. However, you sir, have lost all credibility in everything you have posted as far as I am concerned.

Debates are a good thing from time to time. However, when the debates turn into personal attacks, and the information you are presenting have no credible sources, and are, in some cases, not even on the topic being discussed; that leaves a lot to question not only on your information, but also your character.

You sir, have not one leg to stand on. It does not matter if you are Conservative, Liberal, Moderate, Democrat, Republican, Independednt, Neo-Nazi, Communist, Green, Libertarian, black, blue, green, white, or purple. If you have no credible sources, and you do nothing but attack, you are wrong.

I will leave you with this thought that I learned a hard lesson from a long time ago: Whenever someone lacks credible sources and has no knowledge as to what the subject at hand is all about, they have a tendency to attack you.

To the layperson looking at John Ashcroft’s now-infamous road show in defense of the USA PATRIOT Act, the whole ruckus—complete with organized protestors and opportunistic reporters—must look rather comical. In fact, with 91 percent of registered voters unaware of the Act’s encroachment on civil liberties, the entire dispute might even appear unnecessary. Unnecessary, that is, until you take a look at the Act in all of its 342 pages of verbose details and constitutional infractions. And then, somewhere between the elimination of privacy rights and abolition of checks and balances, it becomes startlingly apparent that over the furor of “preventive justice”, the White House has silently squandered our constitutional protections of due process and civil liberties.

The PATRIOT Act’s baleful abrogation of our right to due process under the law cannot be overstated. As defined in legal jargon, our constitutional right to due process endows every person with appropriate safeguards to protect against arbitrary or unreasonable treatment under the law. It is noteworthy to all, including the Department of Justice, that the framer’s used the term ‘person’ instead of ‘citizen’ in reference to due process. This makes the worst provisions of the PATRIOT Act all the more deplorable for their targeted discrimination of non-citizens. In essence, these provisions institute ideological censorship, authorize deportation for lawful group activities, and allow the Attorney General to detain foreigners with a piece of paper.

Such blatant constitutional violations by the PATRIOT Act, however, are not restricted to foreigners alone. The legislation expands terrorism laws to include “domestic terrorism”, which could subject common political organizations to surveillance, wiretapping, and harassment for political advocacy. Consequently, the mere threat of criminal action is employed to suppress peaceful dissent.

Intelligence agents are similarly granted increased powers to detain citizens for investigative purposes and conduct surveillance—even when there is no basis for suspecting criminal activity. One particularly Orwellian provision involves the notorious “sneak and peek” warrant. Not to be confused with the Fourth Amendment’s protection against unreasonable search and seizures, this new and improved PATRIOT warrant permits agents to search homes and confiscate property under a low evidentiary standard, without first notifying the owner. The warrant also betrays long-held “knock and announce” requirements—allowing subjects of a search to challenge errors in the warrant, such as a wrong address or mistaken name. This particularly odious due process violation finally found it’s way back on the House floor, where it was overwhelmingly repealed in a show of bipartisan support.

The House also voted to repeal Section 215 of the Act, extending government surveillance powers into the very bastions of access to the free press: bookstores and public libraries. Under this provision, the FBI can force librarians and booksellers to turn over the records of their customers without showing probable cause before an ordinary court. The Act also carries a gag order, criminalizing any discussion of FBI searches with the threat of prosecution. Contrary to Ashcroft’s dismissal of librarian concerns as “baseless hysteria”, one survey by the University of Illinois in October 2002 found that federal and local law enforcement officials contacted over 10 percent of their universities for investigation. After checking this university survey for it’s authenticity, it would seem that Ashcroft would be well advised to collaborate with law enforcement officials before he starts a war of words with our nation’s librarians.

Such outrageous violations of due process and equal protection have not gone unnoticed in America’s town halls. More than 160 local governments and three states have passed resolutions opposing the PATRIOT Act, and numerous civil liberty groups have filed lawsuits against the Act’s constitutional violations. At the same time the Inspector General of the Justice Department has submitted two scathing critiques of the Department’s treatment of immigrants swept up under the Act’s broad provisions. The report details dozens of blatant civil rights abuses, many alleging inhumane treatment of prisoners at the hands of Department employees.

What makes these shocking disclosures all the more repugnant is the latest attempt by the Bush Administration to expand state powers even further with a new PATRIOT II. As outlined in his politically motivated speech the eve of 9-11, President Bush proposed to drop current subpoena protections, expand the federal death penalty statutes, and bar purported “terror suspects” from being released on bail. With civil liberties already overrun by patriotic fervor and state abuse, how can the American people possibly afford to squander more constitutional protections?

The Administration’s current policy seems hazardously duplicitous when it asserts its commitment to freedom and democracy, particularly when both principles seem to be the first casualties of war. As Senator Russell Feingold, the lone Senate opposition vote to the PATRIOT Act, forebodingly said, “Preserving our freedom is one of the main reasons that we are now engaged in this new war on terrorism. We will lose that war without firing a shot if we sacrifice the liberties of the American people.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brigid O’Neil is a former researcher at the Center on Peace & Liberty at The Independent Institute in Oakland, California. http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1184

SOunds like a good enough reasone to cut and run to provide a link and say do your own homework isnt an attack were I come from.

Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Under the patriot act your home can be searched without a just cause your library book records searched and your internet and phone can be tapped. Thomas Jefferson is so proud

The House also voted to repeal Section 215 of the Act, extending government surveillance powers into the very bastions of access to the free press: bookstores and public libraries. Under this provision, the FBI can force librarians and booksellers to turn over the records of their customers without showing probable cause before an ordinary court. The Act also carries a gag order, criminalizing any discussion of FBI searches with the threat of prosecution. Contrary to Ashcroft’s dismissal of librarian concerns as “baseless hysteria”, one survey by the University of Illinois in October 2002 found that federal and local law enforcement officials contacted over 10 percent of their universities for investigation. After checking this university survey for it’s authenticity, it would seem that Ashcroft would be well advised to collaborate with law enforcement officials before he starts a war of words with our nation’s librarians.
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1184

Posting articles, did you get permission from the owner? LOL

Good lord its called "fair use" you can look it up and the facts are correct you can look that up also. You guys are to much realy you have been wrong on everything but somehow you keep mutering along. You boys have a good night and do some research on your topics eh?

Give me a break, since when is the gov getting records from the library considered a Unreasonable search and seizure.

You were better off Youtubing.....

You would not know a joke if it Jumped on your face and farted

Ever since the bill of rights eh? now go say your prayers and salute your soiled flag Iam off have a good night