AV - romans 12:1 - the word reasonable - logikos - strongs - agreeable, logical, pertaining to reason or logic. spiritual, pertaining to the soul.

question is your god logical? does he "reason"? in a "spiritual way?

Eljay, yes of course newborns are brought into sterile environments in modern day hospitals. Actually my mother is a retired labor and delivery RNC so I have some experience with this just based on listening to her talk about work and having little tours of the hospital. You are correct in that, however, this was biblical times so they did not have big sterile nurseries or anywhere similar that they could care for a sick baby or an infirm mother. They had to make do in those situations and primarily relied on the medical assistance of midwives. Or if they did not have that, hopefully an older woman well versed in childbirth to play a crucial role in the delivery and aftercare of the infant.

Look at Leviticus carefully and read it. I’m sure you are well versed in most of this anyway. But "unclean" seems to indicate that the birthing rite itself is abhorrent in some fashion. The ability to give birth. Intercourse is not even mentioned. It’s the fact that she is bringing a child into the world that causes this purification ritual as far as I can understand. So yes, you are correct in that it creates a definite scriptural contradiction. It requires it’s followers to "go forth and multiply" and take dominion over the passive Earth BUT make sure you do a lot of cleansing and atonement payments to these priests because its is asked of "god".

Also, you still did not answer why if this is for medical concerns for the mother or child, that it would be double the cleansing time period for a maid child (female) and why would turtles, pigeons and lambs need to be paid to priests that were suposidly doing all of this purification?

Again, trival semantics.

The contradition is that a supposedly unchanging God changed the way he deals with humanity.

That's the assertion of a contradiction in the Biblical picture of God.

Drowning people in a flood, and then sending a son to offer them salvation is a change in the way that God deals with humans.

As I stated early on. To even argue "exuses" for why God was "justified" in changing is to still concede that he did indeed change.

It's a straight-forward assertion Eljay.

"Like all religions, the Holy Religion of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is
based upon both Logic and Faith. We have Faith that She is Pink; we
Logically know that She is Invisible, because we can't see Her."-- Anonymous

Boy, you're good.

I agree, that's utterly contradictory that God would command people to go forth and multiply and then consider sex and birth to be "unclean".

I also totally agree with you that this was consider to be "spiritual uncleanliness" and not medical uncleanliness because it clearly makes references to the woman not touching things that are "holy".

There's no question about it, that's a GOOD ONE Krimsa!

A God that tells people to be fruitful and mulitply and then treats sex and birth as being spiritually unclean?

That's definitely a contradictory thing to do.

and still no ones given room to belushis statements yet either:

belushi:

Ok ... here's two ... you can pick either one, and we will run, walk or just amble with it.

First one

QUOTE:

Judas died how?

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)


Second one

QUOTE:

When did Baasha die?

1KI 16:6-8 26th year of the reign of Asa

2CH 16:1 36th year of the reign of Asa

thisone seems to be a blatant inconsitency with Baasha -


you wanna tackle those point eljay?

Gosh, we have a lot of potentially contradictory topics going back and forth now

Yeah as far as that whole "make more Jews" yet "make sure you cleanse properly after" is a little bit questionable. Of course my thinking is the actual act of giving birth was somewhat threatening to these early pioneers of Christianity. You figure "creationism" at least in the sense of how the common people and pheasants would have been viewing it for hundreds of years prior was in the hands of women. Now you tell us it’s all wrong, but we still need to do it and pay up afterwards? I’m surprised that even went over...I bet it didn’t most of the time.

Hi sweet Eljay.....I have been around a bit.....God needed to take me out for a bit......to firmly plant in my heart my purpose.......to plant seeds....not to fight.....He will choose my battles and then beware for He is my strength, my light, my force.....

I miss and heart you Eljay.....


God Bless you always my dear friend.....

I'm surprised at how many women today support this male-chauvanistic mythology.

In the 1960's women were burning their bras during the women's liberation movement.

Personally I think they should have been burning Bibles. That's where all the male chauvanism came from in the first place!

And I can't believe how many misinterpret what it is saying.......

Well I still find the bible interesting to read. Its one puzzle piece. The Earth based religions are another puzzle piece. One predated the other of course. Most people won’t argue that anymore. It also explains why the bible very often is so hostile and on the defensive when it comes to certain topics I would imagine.

Say you were a guy with some bright ideas and a smooth talker and wanted to start your new business in a highly competitive market.

Okay, you know company B here has been the supplier for thousands of years, dating back to the Neolithic for goodness sake. That’s insurmountable. Or is it?

You start picking away and discrediting, slowly but surely. The evidence is all there.

shame on us deb, bad guys, huh?

hope your doing good, sounds like it -

Oh come Feral you have to be in total denial to claim otherwise.

Just look at the Bible.

It has God creating man in the image of God.

Then it has God creating women from a rib of man to be his "helpmate".

Clearly it has women being "subservient" to men right from the get-go.

Then it goes on to blame Eve for luring Adam (the man) into sin?

Then it goes on to have daughters sold and traded as wives like livestock.

Then it goes on to say that women aren't permitted to speak of important matters in public and must only speak in private to their husbands?

I suppose that means that unmarried women aren't allowed to speak at all. Of course, since they were being sold and traded as wives there probably weren't that many unmarried women around in those days.

That's not a male-chauvanisitic mythology?

You have to be blind not to see the male-chauvanism in the Bible.

Either that or be in compelte denial.

You preach the Bible a lot on the forums. But according to the Bible that's a no-no. Jesus didn't come to change the laws. And that law was never changed. So there's no reason whatsoever why it shouldn't still be in effect to this very day.

You don't even seem to care that you are going against the very book that you preach about. That book says that you aren't supposed to talk about it publically.

None of Jesus' disciples were women. Mary Magdalene wasn't a disciple, she was just some kind of girlfriend that hung around. Some theologians have suggested that she was Jesus' wife.

Also, why didn't God send his only begotten daughter to save the world?

Clearly it's as partriachal as it can be.

Feral feel free to join in and tell us what we are misinterpreting, the more the merrier! There is no disrespect of individual faiths or denomination or atheism, just throw it out there.

Abra I don’t know about any Christ daughters but he probably had a wife, or Mary Magdalene he seemed pretty sweet on at least until his execution. It makes sense from a biological standpoint that there would be descendants of Jesus. I saw some show about it on PBS. One is working in a fast food restaurant. No disrespect intended but she’s a teenage girl, who traces her lineage back through that DNA testing they can do with forensic technology. Crazy. There might be a site on the net. Maybe look up descendants of Christ?

Can you imagine just trying to be a normal kid and get through your SATs and all that without the further pressure of being a descendant of Jesus?? God!

sorry Krimsa, deb said this:

.....God needed to take me out for a bit......to firmly plant in my heart my purpose.......to plant seeds....not to fight.....He will choose my battles and then beware for He is my strength, my light, my force.....


this might not be what god wants her to be involved with right now, but i could be wrong, we will see,

if you really want to see ferral get involved i can bring up the rapture and parousia having already taken place in AD 70, she loves to get wild over that one!!

just kidding wowza -

Okay well whenever she feels comfortable. You don’t have to worry about debate and just post whatever you want. We are just playing sort of a game now like one person says something and another says that’s not really accurate and it goes on endlessly.

Hey guys, she knows this game better than us!!!!!

you have any new rules you'd like to add????????

just joking Krimsa, but you hit a funny bone on that one.