Derf - you were joking about competition getting into heaven right? ;)

and i didn't mean my last post to be 'directed' at you - that was just
my personal tirade!

athepal:

>> what would happen with iraq's government without the us influence?what would happen to iraq?

These are very important questions! Fortunately, even if many
individuals were to demand 'us out of iraq now', that would at most
shift the overall direction of our policy - in the end its not like we'd
actually up and walk out overnight. But i think islandking makes a good
point about motivating the iraqs to step up the plate and govern
themselves.

>>just thankour us service men&women for what they do for you every day!!!!

Completely agree! Thank you, service men & women!

Yes, of course I was joking, there's no way I'm going to heaven. ;)
In any case yes, what you point out is correct, we cannot change
people's hearts or minds with a gun any more than we could win a war
with words. Changing moderate Muslim's minds is something that is left
for people more qualified than I, but giving them choices in how their
life is lived, what they are able to do, or where they can go cannot be
a bad thing. As long as they have no hope of moving up in social
status, attaining an education, or even having the hope that their
children will have it better in 10 years than they do today, they will
continue to be easy prey for the radical elements that tell them
"American is to blame for all your problems, join us and strike against
the Great Satan." When they are able to gain an education, travel, and
see that the western world doesn't wish them dead they will spread that
to their families and friends and then minds will change, but until then
it's more of the same old same old. That or we could nuke the Middle
East and give the Isrealies Mexico (yes, I'm kidding I know that sarcasm
doesn't translate well to the written word).

By the way Massagetrade, I don't take many things personally. Unlike,
it would seem, some of the people in one of my other posts. :D

Derf - i completely agree with the entire non-sarcastic portion of your
post. this debate is losing steam, thats no fun.

Thanx 4 reeding mi post despiit my pore grammer and fonetic spelling.

Some very good comments here. I agree with fedman, messagetrade and even
derfw3. I cannot add much except to say what messagetrade said
already...

>>just thankour us service men&women for what they do for you every day!!!!

>>Completely agree! Thank you, service men & women!

I bears repeating.

Verb

This situation could be taken care of almost over night if people
understood what our constitution says and means. Can someone even tell
me how our Constitution even begins? The most powerful 3 words on the
entire document.

"We the people...."

Thank you.......now......who has the power to change how our goverment
is opperating? who put these morons in power? who has the real
power? WE THE PEOPLE!

ONE VOICE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE HERE.

Well from what I got told the majority of people did not vote for Bush.
He won because of the Electoral College. Still have a hard time
understanding that one but then I'm a Canadian and it's been a long time
since I studied the American system of government.

Want to end this war in record time with a huge victory?
1person......1 voice.
If 1 person from every single household in this country were to write
thier congress man a letter saying "WIN THE WAR AT ALL COSTS NOW"....and
I mean write a physical letter...sent by mail...can you begin to imagine
how many tons of mail would be flooding into congress?...all saying the
same thing?
1 person...1 voice......do the math. How could they not hear us then?

New,
What is your view on what it would mean to "Win the war"? it may
sound like an ridiculously obvious question, but i'm serious. what
would things look like after we 'win the war'? what situation would you
call a victory?

Karma.....lol....trust me....Bush won hands down. Keary was a
joke....Let me say this tho.... I too am very dissapointed with the way
this war is being fought....I have a son in the airforce right now who
works on the f15 fighter jets...so yeah...I am paying attention to whats
going on and also get first hand accounts of it from him.

It's about changing the face of the middle east. Setting up a Democracy
in afganastan and iran...giving them freedom of choice...free
will....libertys....get them established so they can hold thier
own....iraq won't stand a chance then....That is the head of the snake
that we must stop.

In my opinion- may it be right or wrong- Leaving now would defeat the
entire purpose of going over there...and would signal to the other
countries that we don't have backbones. We can't just start/join a
fight and not stick through until the end....no matter how much it may
hurt us as citizens. My brother was in the war and so are a lot of my
friends so yes, I do think about them constantly. I don't like them out
there but I do know that they HAVE to be there. Bush started this mess
and now some poor sap is goin to be left to clean it up...and so lives
on the Bush Legacy.

Bush Legacy? Let me be clear on this for all of you ......
He had the right IDEA!
unfortunately he didn't have the right support.
If every person who had a voice and said to the congress..........WIN AT
ALL COSTS!.........what do ya think that outcome would be?
Unleashing the FULL force of the american military? Who would stand a
chance? Right now they are working at a police state....can you even
begin to imagine if they were aloud to be cut loose?
The nut case's over there wouldn't stand a "snowball chance in hell"
against us.
BUT.......I'm just 1 voice!
what can I do?



I'm 1 of millions.....who can be heard....If I want to be heard.

Im glad you dont speak for me, newguy. one voice, sounds like a
dictatorship to me! Majority rules thats a democracy! Win the war, we
did in a lil over 40 days, having an occupational force is our problem
now.
What buisness is it of ours what they do with their country? Isnt
meddling in others affairs 75% of the problems we expierience now?
We went from Saddam Huseins in ability to do anything militarily and
created a killing field, a free for all, for terrorist to kill
Americans, without even buying a plane ticket. You say bush had the
right idea, I say he created a cluster **** that is costing America
lives, hatred around the world, and more money than most countries GNP.
We support these idiots like SH and Osama bin laden until, we decide we
dont need them anymore, then we hunt them down and kill them. Something
about that doesnt sound right to me.
I voted for bush the first time, but after so many deceptions, where he
thought he could pull the proverbial wool over americans eyes, I saw him
for what he is, it took a lil more for the other democratic majority to
see him for what he is, a liar, but eventually they got the idea. Have
you seen his approval rating lately? If so, where do you fiqure that we
should speak as your voice. It would be quicker and makes a hell of a
lot more sense if you would wake up and speak with our voice, but that
is a citizen of a democratic societies right to speak with their own
voice!

Go for It little DOG Fanta, I agree whole heartily. New guy disappointed
with the way the war is being fought.....Why are we in this war, always
minding everyone else's business and taking care of out own. War does
nothing but kill. Population control by our dead boys dropped off in
foreign lands knowing the outcome as in every war. We have been played
as fools..THE AMERICAN PEOPLE"!
Then about having a voice, RIGHT! Police state erupting throughout
America. Playing up on fear tactics to put in place more of what is
leading to stronger Police state claiming "for our protection, and the
war for our freedom" HELLO wake up America you are losing FREEDOM with
every step taken by this government and brain washing going on of
Americans. I believe nothing anymore unless I see it first hand and
then question what I see.

People in other countries are gonna hate us no matter what we do. We
send millions in aid annually to Columbia but they still protest and
burn our flag along with other nations that we give aid to. The war
won't make the hatred any deeper or more widespread, it will just
reaffirm it. Terrorism could be winnable and would be if all countries
would participate within their own borders to eliminate threats. The
best thing for us to do to combat terrorism would be to lock our borders
tight and anyone including american born citizens get caught planning
terrorist acts upon the US should be dealt with as treason and dealt
with swiftly and harshly.

I was done with this thread but I keep seeing people saying that we
should "mind our own business". History shows that this does not work.
Twice before in American history we have engaged in a policy of
isolationism; once before WW1 and then again in the years leading up to
WW2 (though yes, it could be argued that the second time was more
economically imposed than an actual policy making decision.) We as a
country cannot have it both ways, we must either lead by example (even
if we don't always get it right) or we can allow other countries who
would gladly lead the world down another path (take your pick communism-
China, socialism- most of Latin America, or a theocracy- Iran/Muslim
extremists).

I can't remember where I got this, but for those who complain about
what the USA doesn't do you never hear much in the way of praise for
what we DO do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAtNILh6uY