I was not thinking about you. I was expressing how your post gave me the feeling of the wall you build between yourself and non-Christians. But if these are the boundaries you want to set up in your discussions with people, then I should probably ignore your posts because they are not even close to the same page as I am on therefore they just don't apply to me.

We are too far apart to build a bridge.

JB
May the force be with you and may you learn to use it.

His name is Rev. George Rodonaia and I don't believe his story in the least. It sounds like he was in a coma and woke up, he wasn't resurrected.

Sorry, yes thats the guy.

What more proof do you want?

Rev. George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. Yet after the experience, he devoted himself exclusively to the study of spirituality, taking a second doctorate in the psychology of religion. He then became an ordained priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. He served as a pastor at St. Paul United Methodist Church in Baytown, Texas.

JB,

The truth is in the signal...or in this case the post.

You said...


You were directly commenting on me. Please don't do that. I hope we have an understanding.

That's the guy. He wasn't dead, I just don't believe it. His account is too fanciful. And why what he claims happened would drive him to be a Christian? His experiances aren't anything like what the Judeo-Christian afterlife is described as being.

I just said that it would be NICE if you would recognize that other people believe in god besides Christians. And yes, I still think it would be NICE if you did. But you won't.

It annoys me when Christians think they and they alone OWN GOD.

JB

I know that! I know that other people believe in other gods. I don't believe their gods exist! That's the point. If I did, hell I would convert to their religion. Lots of beliefs would allow me a lot more freedom of behavior than Christianity.

Do you believe the God described in the Bible exists? That he is the ONLY God. That he commanded the Israelites to kill every man, woman and child in Jericho? NO? NO?!!! How dare you!!!! That annoys me. Jeaniebean...We don't believe in the same gods. We probably don't agree with Muslims or Jews or Hindus...but that's okay. We can each believe in our own gods and none of us have to believe in another's gods, but we should still treat one another with respect and accept that nobody HAS to belive in our god.

He was declared dead and kept in a cooler for three days with a tag on his toe. You don't believe it? Then you think the doctors were wrong?

This just PROVES that even when faced with proof of something, a person can still chose to believe or disbelieve it.

This happened in our modern time. It is something you can actually investigate NOW. And yet you believe that Jesus died and came back to life? I don't believe that either. He was just in a coma perhaps.

The reason the man turned to Christianity was in an effort to look for answers. But I'm sure he DID NOT FIND THEM there. Because they are not there. As you said, his experiences aren't anything like what you think your Judeo-Christian afterlife is described as being. But how does anyone really know what the afterlife is like? You don't and neither does your religion.

JB

I knew that what you said here was total nonsense, but I just now realized that the very doctrine that you claim to support would shoot your comments down.

Adam and Eve supposedly knew that God existed without a shadow of a doubt, yet that didn't seem to have any ill-effect on their free will.

So you logic doesn't even hold water Spider.

Clearly knowing that God exists and even taking to God directly doesn't not have any affect on free will.

So your argument doesn't even stand up to the very doctrine that you claim to support. You just make up ideologies thinking that they make sense to you and don't even stop to think about whether they make sense with repect to the biblical stories.

Clearly, knowing whether or not God exists does not have anything at all to do with free will.

I think some people don't like stories like this one because they want to believe that only Jesus Christ could overcome death and that is one of the reasons they believe that he is the son of god or god himself. But he was human. If he did overcome death, as a human, he was just showing people that it is possible to do this and that we, as humans can also do this.

But that reduces Jesus to just a human and probably not a god if other humans can do these things. You didn't see anyone proclaiming this man below to be the son of god or a god did you? NO. There are many many other cases of people who died and were brought back or came back to life after being declared dead by doctors.

True or not, why believe one story over another?

JB

********************************************

What more proof do you want?

Rev. George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. Yet after the experience, he devoted himself exclusively to the study of spirituality, taking a second doctorate in the psychology of religion. He then became an ordained priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. He served as a pastor at St. Paul United Methodist Church in Baytown, Texas.

*********************************************

SPIDER:

You are free to believe as you will, you can choose to ignore my posts.


TRIBO:

Yes we are spider - just as you are able to choose to ignore ours. But we won't and you won't, your here looking for debate and set your scenario's up as we also do. That is what a forum is for, c'mon, you know that. Don't come off playing innocent on this. Why would any of us post a question or lay out something as you do and not expect other's to comment? You want to show other's your truth. And then defend it to the hilt. And that's ok, really it is. But please dont try to make us believe that it is just a statement you want us to ignore or bypass, If so then you should just print it in the church bulletin so that others can admire it and say how true, how true, and then pat you on the back and say well done faithful servant.

just be real spider, it's to easy to see thru your post.

So true, if you want to be ignored, just type your stuff in a file on your computer and save it to a folder where nobody can see it but you.

Or are you asking that only people who agree with Spider read and respond to your posts?

JB

one small diff JB, though i dont disagree with what your stating - spider and others will respond that jesus foretrold his death and his ressurection after 3 days - if not i'll be surprised. others like what you mention i dont think did such a thing?

That casts even more suspicion upon the entire staged event. ...it could have all be staged, and I have my doubts that Jesus was even the person involved in the event. If the event happened, I think someone took his place. (Simon?) And that is why Mary did not recognize the man in the garden who had emerged from the tomb. It was not the same man.

Just is theory... of what might have happened.

Then again, the people who "wrote" the story later could have always added the story about the event being foretold.

I'm suspicious by nature. Just because it was written, don't make it so.

JB

i understand your take love, was just stating that if you did not here it, it would surprise me - i already knew you and others fellings on this.

A couple of things that you ignored.

First, the amount of faith one has in God allows for a tolerance in your freewill to God's actions. Obviously Adam had a great deal of faith in God.

Second, Adam and Eve were a completely different paradigm than our current world. Surely someone who studied Chrsitianity as long as you have would know that from the written account. For Adam and Eve it was a completely different situation, the question was "If they know God completely, will they choose to trust God". The answer was no. So now the question is "Will people want to know and serve God, if God exists?"

Once again, you find the heart of the issue and completely ignore it.

Jeaniebean was complaining that I didn't accept that other people have other gods. I was explaining that I only believe in one God and I won't pretend to believe in other gods. Since I only believe in one God, my posts are worded from that perspective.

I didn't once complain that she posted. I'm putting it out there. If anyone thinks that I was complaining that any non-Christian posted, they are stupid. On the level of algae in intelligence. Probably sub-literate. Possibly below the level of **** and Jane books. Not only would such a person loose at "Are you smarter than a 5th grader", but they would probably also lose at "Are you smarter than an new born". It would probably be a dead heat on "Are you smarter than an ameba".

I was addressing HER COMPLAINT that I didn't write my post to suggest that other gods might exist. I won't bend my beliefs for anyone. Only one God exists. You are entitled to your beliefs, but you damn well better respect that I have the right to mine. I don't HAVE to believe in other gods. I just have to respect your right to worship the way you choose. So my posts will be written from the perspective of the monotheist, specifically Christianity.

Jeaniebean wrote:


How am I not surprised that you bought into the sophistry? Can you show me where I complained that you posted? NO? Well that's surprising...all the crying and moaning coming from you guys, it seems I must be a really bad guy.

Why don't you and Tribo climb off the crosses you have made for yourselves and stop making strawmen while you are at it.

No that's not the question at all.

The real question is, "Why should anyone believe in ancient Mediterranean mythologies that clearly contain excerpts from many other mythologies of the time".

The real question is, "Why should anyone believe that God would ask people to stone their unruly children to death?"

The real question is, "Why should anyone believe that God would ask people to judge each other in the Old Testament and stone sinners to death, and then change his mind in the New Testament and tell people they shouldn't judge anyone?"

The real question is, "Why do these stories claim that God is unchanging but the stories keep having God change?"

The real question is, "Why did God so hate the world at one point that he flooded it all out, and then so love the world later that he gave his only begotten son to save it?"

The real question is, "Why should any sane person believe that these crazy inconsistent stories have anything at all to do with a supposedly all-wise creator?"

The question isn't whether or not people want to serve God. The question is "Why should they believe that these insanely asburd stories would have anything to do with God?"

The Bible has nothing to do with God. And rejecting the biblical myth has nothing to do with God.

God could not possible expect people to believe in those stories. Rejecting those stories does not equate to rejecting God. That is an impossiblity. No all-wise and all-intelligent supreme being could possible expect people to believe that it is like those stories claim.

SPIDER:

Not only would such a person loose at "Are you smarter than a 5th grader", but they would probably also lose at "Are you smarter than an new born". It would probably be a dead heat on "Are you smarter than an ameba".


TRIBO:

ACTUALLY -

I did very well on "are you smarter than a new born'!! and actually won on - are you smarter than an amoeba ( variant spelling) Now i'll crawl back up on to my horizontal and vertical wood axis beams and go to sleep for awhile. When i awake again, i will ask my goddess to bring a quick and painless death to those who belittle me. :laugh