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| Topic: Thank You Canada!! (Its about time) | |
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regardless weather you support the war or not, you can not let the soldiers run the army.they volunteer. no one force them to sign. I'm saying be a man. live up to your word.
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Tue 07/15/08 05:52 PM
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That's right and punish the Bush's who abuse their service!
The soldier must still perform his duty! |
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Im all for punishing Bush over Iraq, but lets not forget that the job in Afghanistan is not done! It is an American war, and a just war! It is the war we should be fighting and can win. It is a war we should all be dedicated to. These men volunteered for the Armed forces. Although I think the draft should be reinstated so all Americans sacrifice equally, I do not believe in serving just for personal gain or just when things are rosy. These men are either cowards or fair weather Patriots who should be punished. What happened to the firing squads? If Bush had sent more than 20,000 troops in and not started an illegal war this wouldn't be happening. Do you know what the conditions are? Have they already served their term? I definitely wouldn't call them a coward for not serving in bush's oil war in Iraq. Over 300,000 have been brain damaged. They suffer from PTSD and crippled for life. Those 300,000 did their duty! Ive earned the right to call them cowards if they dont do their duty! They accepted the pay and didnt have a problem when the weather was good! Id draft and line them up in front of a firing squad if they run! and that is how I feel about the people who started the illegal war and those who want to continue it, who was against torture before he was for it. |
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I'm against Iraq war, but still. at 18 your a man, you no right from wrong.thats what wrong with this world today, to many bleeding hearts.
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Im all for punishing Bush over Iraq, but lets not forget that the job in Afghanistan is not done! It is an American war, and a just war! It is the war we should be fighting and can win. It is a war we should all be dedicated to. These men volunteered for the Armed forces. Although I think the draft should be reinstated so all Americans sacrifice equally, I do not believe in serving just for personal gain or just when things are rosy. These men are either cowards or fair weather Patriots who should be punished. What happened to the firing squads? If Bush had sent more than 20,000 troops in and not started an illegal war this wouldn't be happening. Do you know what the conditions are? Have they already served their term? I definitely wouldn't call them a coward for not serving in bush's oil war in Iraq. Over 300,000 have been brain damaged. They suffer from PTSD and crippled for life. Those 300,000 did their duty! Ive earned the right to call them cowards if they dont do their duty! They accepted the pay and didnt have a problem when the weather was good! Id draft and line them up in front of a firing squad if they run!  |
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I'm against Iraq war, but still. at 18 your a man, you no right from wrong.thats what wrong with this world today, to many bleeding hearts. Well, we are not the judge. I am sure each has their own individual story, so let the judge decide. |
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A U.S. Army deserter who fled to Canada three years ago was deported Tuesday to America, marking the first time a resister to the U.S war effort in Iraq has been removed by Canadian authorities. Paula Shore, spokeswoman for the Canada Border Services Agency, confirmed that Robin Long, 25, was deported, but she could not discuss specifics of the case, including Long's destination. Long fled to Canada in 2005 to avoid serving in Iraq. He sought refuge in Canada on the grounds that the U.S. Army wanted him to participate in what he called an "illegal war of aggression in Iraq." Justice Anne Mactavish of the Federal Court of Canada ruled Monday that Long couldn't provide clear evidence he would suffer irreparable harm if he was returned to the United States. In her ruling, Mactavish said that although the percentage of American military deserters prosecuted for desertion has increased since 2002, the vast majority have not been prosecuted or faced jail time. Last week, the Federal Court blocked the deportation of National Guard Sgt. Corey Glass, 25, while it decides whether to hear his case. Glass refused redeployment to Iraq. Long and Glass were among some 200 American deserters believed to have come to Canada trying to avoid service in Iraq. So far, Canadian immigration officials and the courts have rejected efforts to grant them refugee status. During the Vietnam War, up to 90,000 Americans successfully won refuge in Canada, most of them to avoid the military draft. The majority went home after the United States granted amnesty in the late 1970s. http://www.onenewsnow.com/AP/Search/World/Default.aspx?id=179702 199 more would be nice!! Shame and disgrace on Canada to deport those who do not wish to kill innocent people according to their conscience . Of course Canada is pondering to the big bullying elephant south of its border .  .
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does your word now adays mean anything.
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I could understand if there were a draft...
But if you signed up to go, you really should go. |
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Well, I think if these men and women were doing a normal tour and coming home that the harshest punishment should be applied but since the tours are being extended and time at home is not being given, this it too stressful. Considering the amount of stress that a normal tour in war time is, these tours are much too much. I am sure when they volunteered they thought that the military would at least be humane in their treatment of the soldiers but this is not what is happening.
I cannot agree with the harsh punishment of these individuals under the mismanagement of this administration of our military personnel. |
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A U.S. Army deserter who fled to Canada three years ago was deported Tuesday to America, marking the first time a resister to the U.S war effort in Iraq has been removed by Canadian authorities. Paula Shore, spokeswoman for the Canada Border Services Agency, confirmed that Robin Long, 25, was deported, but she could not discuss specifics of the case, including Long's destination. Long fled to Canada in 2005 to avoid serving in Iraq. He sought refuge in Canada on the grounds that the U.S. Army wanted him to participate in what he called an "illegal war of aggression in Iraq." Justice Anne Mactavish of the Federal Court of Canada ruled Monday that Long couldn't provide clear evidence he would suffer irreparable harm if he was returned to the United States. In her ruling, Mactavish said that although the percentage of American military deserters prosecuted for desertion has increased since 2002, the vast majority have not been prosecuted or faced jail time. Last week, the Federal Court blocked the deportation of National Guard Sgt. Corey Glass, 25, while it decides whether to hear his case. Glass refused redeployment to Iraq. Long and Glass were among some 200 American deserters believed to have come to Canada trying to avoid service in Iraq. So far, Canadian immigration officials and the courts have rejected efforts to grant them refugee status. During the Vietnam War, up to 90,000 Americans successfully won refuge in Canada, most of them to avoid the military draft. The majority went home after the United States granted amnesty in the late 1970s. http://www.onenewsnow.com/AP/Search/World/Default.aspx?id=179702 199 more would be nice!! Shame and disgrace on Canada to deport those who do not wish to kill innocent people according to their conscience . Of course Canada is pondering to the big bullying elephant south of its border . . We will send yours back! What happens to the Canadian soldiers who refuse to go to war? What happens to the Canadian soldiers who refuse to go to Afghanistan? I bet Karma can tell me! |
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all i can say is .........blame canada...
 that was for gypsy
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I'm not sure how I feel about the whole thing. Being from Canada, the decision has pretty big implications and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. The one thing I wonder is did the guy come to Canada out of fear of service or was he objecting to the war in Iraq? I wonder if he would have been willing to finish his service if it was in Afghanistan. I agree with a statement made earlier in this thread that Bush should be punished for making the American military fight an illegal war but how when its so easy to just blame simple patriots or call them cowards when they are trying to tell people that something is wrong in Iraq. The guy wanted to serve in the war on terror not the Bushs private family campaign. How does one deal with Bush though, everybody knows he screwed up big but everybody just goes right on letting him get away with it. In my mind he broke a much much bigger law and that to me is more disgusting than one guy objecting to killing innocent people. Please keep that in the proper perspective. But your right, there is no draft and he did sign up. I think I would be happy sending him back to the states if he fled from Afghanistan but not Iraq. For the record though, I guess the only people that really have a right to comment on this are people who have served or are currently serving.
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Tue 07/15/08 11:07 PM
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Well, I think if these men and women were doing a normal tour and coming home that the harshest punishment should be applied but since the tours are being extended and time at home is not being given, this it too stressful. Considering the amount of stress that a normal tour in war time is, these tours are much too much. I am sure when they volunteered they thought that the military would at least be humane in their treatment of the soldiers but this is not what is happening. I cannot agree with the harsh punishment of these individuals under the mismanagement of this administration of our military personnel. Max punishment in the US is death. It seldom happens though. Only once in WWII and that was the last time. Most get 18 months in military prison! It wasn't until Vietnam that the US military started shortened tours in a combat Zone. Before then they were there for the duration unless killed or so severely wounded that they could not be patched up and sent back to the front! |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Tue 07/15/08 11:41 PM
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Canada executed several men for military crimes, chiefly cowardice and desertion, in the First World War, and maintained the death sentence in the Canadian Criminal Code until 1976 and militarily until 1998 (although the last execution held in Canada was in 1962). One soldier was executed during the Second World War, Private Harold Joseph Pringle of The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment who was executed in Italy in 1945 for murder. The novel Execution is a fictional treatment of this incident and inspired the television movie Firing Squad. In general, Canadian firing squads and the imposition of capital punishment was patterned after the British military justice system.
http://www.answers.com/topic/execution-by-firing-squad We dont give Canadian soldiers refuge, and the punishment is no different! |
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We are not talking about avoiding the draft here. We are talking about men who signed up..did thier duty...and when it is time to get out...thier tours are extended. They get Stop-lossed. Retirements and end of contracted service are totally ignored through legal loopholes during war time....Lest we forget, "Mission Accomplished"...and "This is an end to the Hostilities in Iraq" (5years ago) When a man or woman has served and no longer wishes to place himself in harms way or watch the slaughter on both sides any longer......I feel they have done thier duty and should have the option to follow the initial contract they signed...not be criminalized for refusing to obey policies that shift every other month. Give the ones who have validly earned the option to choose not to extend thier tours or even leave the armed forces if they choose. Troop levels would plummet and the draft would be instituted.......There would be far more people not liking the concept of thier friends and loved ones being callously shoved into this war. I agree. The contract needs to be honored on BOTH SIDES. This includes releasing people from active duty when they have served thier agreed upon time & giving thenm the benifits they have earned. |
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Im all for punishing Bush over Iraq, but lets not forget that the job in Afghanistan is not done! It is an American war, and a just war! It is the war we should be fighting and can win. It is a war we should all be dedicated to. These men volunteered for the Armed forces. Although I think the draft should be reinstated so all Americans sacrifice equally, I do not believe in serving just for personal gain or just when things are rosy. These men are either cowards or fair weather Patriots who should be punished. What happened to the firing squads? I do not think a draft is nessasary to DEFEND THIS COUNTRY. I believe most Americans would be willing to die to DEFEND THIS COUNTRY. Fighting in the Middle East is another thing all together. |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Wed 07/16/08 12:12 AM
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We are not talking about avoiding the draft here. We are talking about men who signed up..did thier duty...and when it is time to get out...thier tours are extended. They get Stop-lossed. Retirements and end of contracted service are totally ignored through legal loopholes during war time....Lest we forget, "Mission Accomplished"...and "This is an end to the Hostilities in Iraq" (5years ago) When a man or woman has served and no longer wishes to place himself in harms way or watch the slaughter on both sides any longer......I feel they have done thier duty and should have the option to follow the initial contract they signed...not be criminalized for refusing to obey policies that shift every other month. Give the ones who have validly earned the option to choose not to extend thier tours or even leave the armed forces if they choose. Troop levels would plummet and the draft would be instituted.......There would be far more people not liking the concept of thier friends and loved ones being callously shoved into this war. I agree. The contract needs to be honored on BOTH SIDES. This includes releasing people from active duty when they have served thier agreed upon time & giving thenm the benifits they have earned. I think you are talking about stop-loss! The stop loss policy has always been. When a soldier signs up he signs for 8 yrs. Its a contract, and you either do 4 active, 4 active reserve or 3 active, 5 active reserve, etc. Active reserve means that you must be available for a call up at all times. It is possible and legal for the Army to keep you active for the whole 8 yrs such as war-time. That is stop loss, and although it isnt used much, it is used in extreme circumstances. The military has not been meeting it's recruiting requirements under the voluntary system. Especially in combat MOSs. So they have one of two possible choices. They either enact the draft or use the stop loss clause! Bush has been using the stop loss to avoid enacting the draft. He knows that if he started drafting that all the pacifists, and parents of young men who think their child is above military service would hit the streets in protest! Stop loss is legal! Even if you get out you are technically still in until your 8 yrs is up! |
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Well, I think if these men and women were doing a normal tour and coming home that the harshest punishment should be applied but since the tours are being extended and time at home is not being given, this it too stressful. Considering the amount of stress that a normal tour in war time is, these tours are much too much. I am sure when they volunteered they thought that the military would at least be humane in their treatment of the soldiers but this is not what is happening. I cannot agree with the harsh punishment of these individuals under the mismanagement of this administration of our military personnel. Max punishment in the US is death. It seldom happens though. Only once in WWII and that was the last time. Most get 18 months in military prison! It wasn't until Vietnam that the US military started shortened tours in a combat Zone. Before then they were there for the duration unless killed or so severely wounded that they could not be patched up and sent back to the front! Private Eddie Slovack of Detriot Michigan is the only man to be exceuted for desertion since the cival war. He was a weak, not so bright, whiney Polish kid, a petty thief, not very likeable, not well suited to be a solder & not likely to be mourned be anyone other than his handicapped wife whom he called "Mommie". He was an easy choice for an example, even so noone was enthusisiac about this duty. The firing squad was so upset not one got a direct hit on his heart. It took him 15 minutes to die. I guess the pentagon figured this was worse for morale than letting deserters get away with it. |
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