Told by a Founding Father during the days of the 1200 Year Old War against Islam. On this July 4th, 2008, 193 years after we defeated the radical Islamist pirates, The Barbary Pirates, or the Ottoman corsairs as they are often known, I say we reflect on the fact that there is a war that has gone on for 1400 years with this hostile religion of war. A religion twisted further following the death, and most likely the assassination of the Prophet Mohammed by his own once faithful followers, after he was believed to have had a final revelation following his final pilgrimage.

A religion of close ties to Christianity through Jesus and ties to the Archangel Gabriel, twisted by those same followers that killed the great prophet. These people who took the reins, with the passing of their prophet and founder of Islam, twisted it much the way the Catholic Church did to use it to garner power throughout Europe. However, the twisting of Islam went much greater to one of constant war and great violence, of the fundamentalists and those in power, against all those who were not Muslim as well, or were not 'Muslim' enough. The brutal onslaught came to the same levels of the 'state' influence of the Christian religion, which faltered in strength as the rise of democracy took true hold when it was the people, and not the leaders who held the absolute controls.

This has not been the same case in the Muslim world, in Muslim states, where the religion controls and runs every aspect of society. It has taken such a hold that the Barbary Pirates of the Ottomans lived by the standards in the 18th and early 19th century that had been instituted and mantained as status quo ever since the 7th Century when the subsequent leaders of Islam brokered and transferred controls all over the Middle East, Asia, Northern Africa, and even Europe as far into it as it hit Spain hard with the invasion of the Moors.

It was the pressing of a very strong, centralized and controlled Islamic Empire that pushed so viciously against a Europe broken by internal and European issues that caused the Catholic Church to achieve its greatest state of power. The rise of a nationalism in a Church atmosphere broke way to the Crusades yes on religious adventure and discovery, pursuit of wealth, but just as much equally the defense against a powerful Islamic state that had become the true achievers of technological advancements, such as compasses and other future techs, that eventually made their way to Europe who got the hand me downs.

Europe rose with all these influences and had the new technologies of gunpowder and metal works inherited from the East and from the Silk Road to put into major mass production. It is geography that allowed Europe to rise against the beating of war drums and the push of the Islamic Empires to the WEST after they were slowed by the Asian armies. Europe's abundance in raw metals added to their new discoveries, and hijacked technology of the East into mass metal works created the far better swords, armor, and even gunpowdered weapons that would overwhelm the Islamic armies for years.

With the wars of the Crusades, a term which comes into question for it has been for too long purely associated with a war of religions when there is so much more political influences into it, the West absolutely decimated the Islamic Empires. Yes, eventually the Europeans were pushed from Jerusalem and most of the Middle East because of overwhelming numbers, but just as much the internal European issues that brought wars and political games among them. However, following the Crusades the East would never be what it once was, the Islamic Empires continued on a steady decline in strength, technological achievements and expansions of power. It is only the Ottomans who garnered future strength that would last for so many centuries at that. Yet, their own holds on power was in great part to their maintaining presence in Europe and desire to be moderate in fundamentals of Islam to trade and partner with Europeans.

Yet, they would soon begin their own decline from an aged Empire, as with most, broken so greatly so by being overstretched and having poor Emperors/Sultans to maintain control. The wars they fought in the 19th Century, especially the Crimean War they united with the British and others against Russia, but they were absolutely decimated. They lost so many battles and were routed so many times, despite being so greater in numbers and having three Empires in assistance (French, British and there was one other I do believe). Their technological superiority gone, ability to wage wars ruined, they were an Empire on a decline and it would only continue to the first World War when it was over for them.

In the 20th Century, with the influence of Western states in the Middle East, with modern imperialism heavily influencing the states, those leaders in those states gained great wisdom. They rekindled the radical Islam that had always been there, but mixed it with Communism, Fascism, Monarchy, and whatever else they could toss around to make it work. In WWII they united strong with Hitler, particularly The Mufti. (Sidenote: look up a man named Emir Faisal, a very different position taken following WWI by this man. Very interesting character. He was a descendent of Mohammed's tribe as well, and his position of peace with the West, with Christians and Jews and staunch anti-Ottoman position is very interesting.)

Present-day we know what is going on, well most of us who live in a realist world of Machiavellian realities and realpolitiks. But, besides all that I wanted to get a whole bit of my own dive into history and into interesting aspects I have and would like to explore so much more. Now, my entire rant, as some will see it, may sound like an attack on Islam. And, it might rightly be categorized as such. However, I want to put forth the point that my attack is MUCH MORE on the STATE RELIGION and hijacking of it from what I believe was Mohammed's first intended purpose. We know not the writings of Mohammed, we know only of those who said they knew the writings and true belief of the prophet Mohammed and we are suppose to take them for their word. The same can rightly be said about Christianity and my challenge and aspect of some of my rantings have been paralleled to the state and powerful people hijacking religions for their own use as they see fit.

Whatever the case, whatever the original intent of Mohammed, whatever should the revelation, or the word, he received from the Archangel Gabriel be true, be noted that the man was a war leader, a tride leader, and unlike Jesus his conquests were that of violence against violence. He was a realist, he was a warrior, it is a different path of Islam than Christianity. Christ turned a cheek while Mohammed met sword with sword. This is reality, but I take nothing bad from that on the surface level for I have Machiavellian beliefs that marked my own Christian soul with a bit of darkness I know. I am a sinful person, but aren't we all. Maybe this is the hell for it is a world marred with beauty and great evil and we are the mice running through its maze trying to reach the prize at the end of salvation. We all take different routes yet there is nothing to say that only one route in the maze leads to the finish though many do lead to tragedies and dead ends for sure.

Whatever the case may be I like to think I at least question realities and the real aspects of the history of the human being. Not politically correct to say what I did I know, but aspects of truth can be found among staunch beliefs and opinions as gold can be found among mud. My points were biased, but truth laid in all that was said, and pure opinions in others. I did not lie about the historical points, and put my own takes and opinions among the many possibilities of events we do not know.

Hope you all take something from it, if anything a burning anger towards me beyond what already exists than so be it, at least I left you with something to ponder and think about.

However, what I will leave you with last is probably the most harsh critique of Islam that was the reasoning to me even posting the FIRST paragraph in the first place. The subsequent ones were NEVER suppose to happen, I just got carried away with myself for I had much to say. And, I wrote this all on the fly, none was planned, nothing was or will be editted. At most I made sure to select all and copy in fear of losing it all...lol.

Here are the words of John Adams, President and Founding Father. Written many years following the wars with the Barbary Pirates, the radical Islamists of the Ottoman Empire. Essentially they were the Hezbollah of Iran. Wow, just thought of that now, but looking at them both, what they do, who they are, and who both call masters there are some really significant similarities. The only difference is the Ottoman Empire at this time was heavily influenced and linked to European state politics whereas the Iranian government absolutely hates the West.

And, we all know that Thomas Jefferson had his own Koran. However, people are mixing that one up as well, he had it because he wanted to know it, and know the beliefs of his enemy. The war with the Barbary Pirates had significant impact on him and his Presidency, if he hadn't been a Founding Father and the writer of the Constituion and so forth he likely would have been run out of town, and from the words of Congress during the day it did not seem to matter what he had done prior.

Anyways, finally, like I said I would be getting to until a near added two paragraph rant, here is the quote from President John Adams on Islam, AS HE SAW IT FROM WHAT HE EXPERIENCED with the Barbary Pirates and many other likely influences.

“In the seventh century of the Christian era a wandering Arab, of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, combing the powers of transcendent genius with the preternatural energy of a fanatic and the fraudulent spirit of an imposter, proclaimed himself as a messenger from heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting, from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God, he connected indissolubly with it the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war as part of his religion against all the rest of mankind. The essence of his doctrine was violence and lust; to exalt the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature. Between these two religions, thus contrasted in the characters, a war of more than twelve hundred years has already raged. That war is yet flagrant; nor can it cease but by the extincture of that imposture, which has been permitted by Providence to prolong the degeneracy of man. While the merciless and dissolute are encouraged to furnish motives to human action, there never can be peace on earth and good will toward men. The hand of Ishmael will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him.” - President John Adams, The American Annual Register 1827-1829, page 269, http://books.google.com/books?id=h9w1AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA594&dq=The+American+Annual+Register+1827#PPA269,M1

Why do the jews who are a minority control America ?.
I guess because the Christians are .....so INTELLIGENT.......!.

I dont want this stupid war. In a lot of ways these fools that fight deserve each other. maybe both sides will figure out a way to wipe each other out and leave the world in peace.

I don't want disease, murder, and lack of morality in the world either, but guess what, it isn't happening. To so shut yourself off from the realities and find ways to understand and work to fight such violence that seeks the slaughter of all non-believers will damn a whole society. As the French schools taught students that all war was horrible and told them all the horrors of war after WWI that led to their swift defeat and occupation in WWII so will the same happen when Americans are taught the same.

The will to fight is most often broken by the internal forces who have not the stomach and have not the wisdom to know that they are putting forth the own doom of their society. And, with that doom of the society the slaughter of millions and imprisonment of society follows. It has always been the best decision to think critically and act upon it immediately than to speak like a defeated people.

This is not a tale of Christian vs. Muslim, this is the tale of the radicalization of the religion of Islam that has seeped throughout the world and taken hold just as violently and widespread now as ever before. It is a dangerous curse of dangerous people and it is a threat we cannot so quickly dismiss. Thomas Jefferson didn't, John Adams didn't, and so haven't those who have seen this twisted hijacking of a religion that has been seen for 1400+ years.

The Founding Fathers were Not against Islam

As a matter of fact some of them may have secretly studied Islam

Why did Thomas Jefferson have his own Koran?

Why are Senators sworn in on it?

Why is Mohammed's image enshrined in the nations capital alongside Moses and Jesus?

The Founding Fathers were Enlightened Philosophers not anti-Muslims

Even if its true, i dont care.

I dont worship the Founding Fathers

Knock off all the emotion icons. It is ridiculously annoying and shows a true lack of intellect. Your assertion is so clearly wrong, showing real sign you did not even read what I wrote. The 'facts' and stuff you throw around are absolutely unsubstantiated. Seriously, why do I even bother with such childish foolishness that lacks any real intelligent dialogue?

Did you not read John Adam's words? Do you not see clearly that Jefferson had a Koran for the fact to know thy enemy, which were Islamic radicals called the Barbary pirates.

You say they were not anti-Muslim, and I don't think many of them even knew anything about Islam, but the point you put forth is so full of holes.

"Even it is true, I don't care"

Seriously, how much more ridiculous can you get besides lying blatantly amongst a pathetic amount of icons? I doubt you even read my initial post.

I know Sam surely didn't.

I don't worship the Founding Fathers either, but I do hold their words of enlightened wisdom very high.

Nice write

No matter what affiliation or belief, each culture of people is going to "twist" their written words to their modern day interpetation...and of course its going to be in their favor, what is right...what is wrong. Unfortunately majority makes the rule, what culture has a right to say another is in wrong unless they are they "majority". One could hope for a united majority "the human race" but this ultimate utopia will never exist. Not to sound pessimistic, but with so many sub-cultures and religions an extremists in each...we are bound to have many more eras of holy wars.

But there are people that will say that without religion these 'holy' wars will be gone. They are, in fact, already gone and have been since the Thirty Years' War. And, that war was between the political sides of the Christian religion. There is no Christian war on Islam, there is no Jewish war on Islam. However, there is a significant war from a minority radical sect of Islam. But, with a religion of a billion plus, a minority is still great in numbers.

They have seeped throughout the Middle East for centuries and rule with brutality, even in the most moderate of Islamic majority countries. And, in Europe they are a dangerous force where a 'can't we all just get along' European leadership has allowed them to reek havok for so many years now. Remember that I am not talking about Islam/Muslims in general, but in the large numbers in the radical sects. Even those not in the 'off with the non-believers or blow them to smitherines' extreme. Even in the less radical they are attempting to shape and install less democratic laws in societies.

No, religious wars (at least where one goes against another based solely on religion) are over.

It is the most common wars in history, that over resources, that will plague us even greater in years to come. The wars that spawned the Mongol dynasty and vast others, that led to some of the most brutal campaigns and slaughters ever. When a people need something to survive they will go to any length, even one that breaks the aspects of a modern society of laws and morality that govern.

There shall be never any true forever peace until the human race is gone. And then, there shall not be it then as well until every living thing is gone, for it is the animals that were the first warring creatures of this planet. Even plants go to war, wars of survival for nutrients and supplies to flourish.

It is the wars of resources that we all should fear, not religion, not nationalism. When the survival of your family, the need of something someone else has, you will go to any length to get it. It is the history of the world.

I agree with most of what you said. Most of modern wars are biased upon a systematic pecking order, a survival of the fittest for resources. But this is not the case in past holy wars. Battles that were won did not gain precious livestock or trade. Often "winning" meant occupying barron land with more plague & famine then those who lost. If you believe the holy wars are over, what do you classify as war? There are still many active parties that are toting guns for no other reason than religion and their beliefs. Most of these we label as extremists...so do their actions not count as war as ours once had?

War is when one group fights with another for various reasons. Holy War being a religious influence, mostly the main reason, though not necessarily so because even the Thirty Years' War was much less about religion than about a very tasty looking land in the middle of it all we now call Germany.

I don't understand the active parties toting guns part.

I said there would be future wars, just not holy aka religious wars. If you are talking about militias I don't think they are extremists unless they are actively seeking to overthrow the government or act as if there is no US government.

Wow, how ironic that I just stated how radical Islam had infiltrated Europe, not always through violence, but by other means this shows up in the news:

"Sharia law SHOULD be used in Britain, says UK's top judge" - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031611/Sharia-law-SHOULD-used-Britain-says-UKs-judge.html

Why is this radical?

Its a system of law that is used by muslims all over the world.

A bit of a sensationalist line and not a great deal of thought, I think.

Yeah, it is used in some of the most undemocratic states in the world. You think it should be used in the western legal system?

In Sharia Law it says all Non-Muslims must pay a tax for goodness sake.

How is that not thought enough? I won't even go deeper, well should I add dress codes, rituals, and customs and behaviors ruled by this law as well?

That is not radical to you?

No I dont think it should be used in the British legal system. But then that is what the power of the vote is for.

I do have a small idea about Sharia law by the way. I live in Egypt.

... so, no it is not radical to me. It is the norm here.

It wont happen in the UK legally, but that doesnt stop it from happening already.

They even have Islamic mortgages in the UK. It is haram to make money from lending, so he mortgages are very low interest and exceptionally good value.

Just got to be a Muslim.

I have noticed that " starsailor2851" is not interested in religion or politics from a logic point of views . he keeps on attacking Muslims , Islam and Arabs for a certain Zionist propaganda and he is getting away with it .
Well the good news is that his audience is nearly nil .

He is afraid of what he doesnt understand ...

So according to Starsailor there is a secret history that none of us know about except him and a few others and, oh by the way, you wont find it written in any history books Sounds pretty weird

Sounds like the Da Vinci code and the Freemasons ... cue for a book or a film maybe?

What secret history did I state? A very tiny fraction of it. The only small piece was that surrounding Mohammed's mysterious death and a supposed final revelation he had when he returned from his final pilgrimage. That is it. And, I did not state it as fact, I stated it as clear POSSIBILITY for we do not know the truth. Everything was written not by Mohammed, but by those around him and after he had already died. Everything else is fact, historical fact.

I, of course, have opinionated slants here and there as well, but it still rings with educated historical studies.

You both obviously did not read my initial post if that is what you believe. I did not attack the religion as a belief, I attacked it in the twisted radical and state-sponsored form it has taken over the years by many. But, not by the great majority. I even linked Islam DIRECTLY to Judaism and Chistrianity for goodness sake!!!!

"A religion of close ties to Christianity through Jesus and ties to the Archangel Gabriel, twisted by those same followers that killed the great prophet."

Archangel Gabriel is in Jewish teachings, Christian teachings, and Islamic teachings. Am I the only one that finds that incredibly interesting and elated that all three of our religions are intertwined by one distinct being?

I attack the Catholic Church during the Middle Ages as well!

Maybe if you actually read what I wrote and did not take it with such a slanted view you would have seen that.