ah?

my relationship with my parents is just like that. However, I am who I am for the values they gave me for the education they gave me. Even though I'm independant, and I take my own decisions.
Each one of my decisions are based upon my parents teachings. I know how to distinguish between good and bad because of what they taught me.
So you are talking about oranges, and I'm talking about peaches.
Even now I go to my parents for advice, yet I'm the one who takes the decision at the end.
A funny note: I grow up watching the bill cosby show, what I never understood is why he was always was trying to kick his children out as soon as they became 18.
I know a parent don't own their children. they are gift and blessing from heaven, and a parent needs to educate their children to be independant, but from there to kick them out as soon as they get 18 there is hell of a difference.
That is something that always have called my attention from this North American society.
WIth the excuse of independance they raise detached children.
Then we see people who have parents, and they never call them. They never go and visit them when their parents are old, and they are living at the nursing home.
This North American society is very interesting indeed.

Thank you James for your wise words. You always teach me something new.
I agree with you about jails full of criminals who claim to be christians.
As I have said plenty of times, "christian" most of the times is a name people use to justify themselves, yet they are hypocrites.
At least an atheist is honest and sincere in saying what they think. So long this atheist does not become a fundamentalist.
There is exactly when I have an issue with atheism.
Again thank you my brother, and I hope your health is better.

this has really strayed.

I wouldn't judge all of "North American Society" by the Bill Cosby show.

I don't intend to ever put my parents in a nursing home. In fact, I live right next door to them and cook meals for them every day, do shopping, house cleaning, laundry etc. and also for my aunt two blocks away. I took 3 years of nurses aid training for this reason. I've been here 10 years.

Being "detached" is not a bad thing. It is not a cold unfeeling thing. You can practice divine love for people and still practice detachment.

Practicing detachment is all about being detached from emotional baggage. It's about helping people and loving them for who they are, without being the effect of their personal baggage or bad moods or bad attitudes and without thinking you have to tell them how to live their lives. It is unconditional love, and it comes with detachment.

JB

this is fine because its your opinion, but the point is that being agnostic, atheist, or non denominational in one's faith doesn't mean you shouldn't question things, if men didn't question why imagine what wouldn't be around to day or how... we all have different beliefs and my problem with God isn't because i don't want to follow his rules, i don't lie , cheat, steal, murder, I work for non profit i respect others dearly the point is to me the bible has to many conflicts and i do not believe that God exists in the christian perspective it has nothing to do with this " being" but the book and the way man has made this God seem. I would suggest you stop seeing people on a 1 dimensional scale and look at the multiple reasons why they might be whatever they are. If atheist were to judge christians imagine what they would say. i'm sure you wouldn't like it.

not to mention that many christians from all areas steal, they murder, cheat, etc, etc, etc this whole argument on rules and why atheist want to disagree is kind of ridiculous in my opinon I don't believe people don't like the 10 commandments so they look for ways to prove god non existant.

Nobody who believes in personal freedom likes to be told what to do. We put up with it when we need to. When we work for someone else, we do as they say if we want to keep our jobs.

When we live under someone's roof (our parents) and they support us we are subject to rules. When we share living quarters with others, there are usually rules. Families and communities have rules. Governments have laws.

All this is understandable.

I believe to the extent you want personal freedom, you have to be independent and self sufficient. The more freedom you require, the more responsibility you must accept.

There is a big difference between a person who rejects dogma and religion and one who simply does not believe in a god.

Non-belief in a god is not rejecting god. How can you reject something you don't believe in? The rejection is of the belief or the religion itself.

In any case, it is always a personal choice. If you feel you have made the right choice, why judge others for their choice? Why even compare yourself and your belief and your lifestyle to others?

JB

I just don't get the last two poster. It's like people choose not to read, or they just read what they want to read.
And the worst thing is that I made huge efforts to make clear that I was not criticizing or judging anybody in particular.
It was very plain that I was writing in the hypothetical scenario of myself adopting an atheist position.
If in my own conception God is my Father and I'm bound by His rules, the moment in which I become rebellious and I reject His rules. I would be denying Him and His existance to make myself free of His rules.
What I expressed is what would be my way out, I was not trying to interpret why other people are atheists.
It seems pretty funny to me how people reads something which is self-evident, they feel offended or touched by the statement and start unnecesary conclusions which are not there.
Anyway thank you guys, reading your posts is very amusing, I really needed today was quite stressful.
You two ladies deserve a dozen of

I'm damn good killing my own threads.

TLW:

Interesting analogy but why not take it all the way to the logical (or in the case of the bible; illogical) conclusion. The rebellious child who does not listen to his parents may in fact be asked to leave, will perhaps be scorned to some extent and might even lose contact with the parents who loved, cared for, and raised him.

What those parents would not do however (unless they are wired as sadistic monsters) is send their rebellious child to a place of eternal damnation. It would never happen. Find me any parent that is sane, anywhere in the world and ask them this question:

"Is there anything your son or daughter could do to you that would make sending them to an eternal and painful hell a just punishment?"

I know of no parents who would do this, none that would or could become so unhinged with their son or daughter's behavior that they would impose this type of punishment. Now, here we are talking about imperfect parents, parents who, according to your beliefs, are sinful by nature. If anyone would be able to conjure up a justification for such a punishment, surely it would be the human parents, right?

Nope, not according to Christianity. According to the good book God sent his only begotten that whosoever shall believe shall have everlasting life. And if you don't believe, eternal damnation. This is from the perfect god, the perfect being of the universe. A child misbehaves on a cosmic scale so grand that an eternity in hell is the best answer?

I'm not denying that people rebel. All of us do. We rebel against workplace productivity, posted speed limits, and sometimes against vows and rules that are taken with solemn oath. But that rebellion is part of being human and that we were born human and then can fail so miserably in the eyes of "he" who created us that the only resort, the only fit justice is one of eternal agony---no, that just won't do.

You just didn't take the analogy far enough, but it was still a worthwhile read.

-Drew

if any believe in a god and perfect father, would not they also have to believe they first CAME from this place.......

if one came from this place, then would not all expereinced here be "met" as a blind man, and as one with no wisdom, or perhaps a percieved rebellion............

seems a logical plan to bring ALL mortals to wisdom, to have the insight needed to walk later in an immortal realm.....

if there be a real truth, and any hear it, would not the wisdom passed be the evidence that "learning" thru unwisdom be passed, as they have now heard "true wisdom" and so no longer WANT to learn thru pain.......

if this be not the true evidence, then will not the speaker always condem the hearer as defective, and not themself also......

OH you think so, eh

I've seen you do that before. You start a thread and then complain about the responses... well so people stop responding.

JB

You either believe in the God of your faith or you don't is her point. Which is it? It should be a simple question to answer. She's asking you what YOU think....

I somehow don't think Jesus would advocate on our behalf in such a half hearted way...do you?

thats my view.nobody knows until ya die and you can't come back and tell anyone so the mystery remains.

Religions are only faith . Some people believe in them and some do not . No one should impose his or her view on others and this is a fundamental right to anyone and everyone .

I just complain about the lack of objectivity of people.
It's like the answers come from an holographic sub-universe.

This is a very interesting post. One which deserves my atention. I've been busy, as soon as i can I will address it point by point.