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Topic: Barack Holds Economic Discussion With Democratic Governors
KerryO's photo
Sat 06/21/08 01:15 PM
Edited by KerryO on Sat 06/21/08 01:19 PM

Wow you did some serious research...lol.



Naw, just a few well-crafted queries to Google and years at arguing politics in various venues.




I knew we had a lobbying effort in Washington, and honestly I have no problems with most lobbyists. These people work with Congress members and people in their administrations.

There are good lobbyists and bad lobbyists. Just like there are good Realtors and bad Realtors. However, there are no good Congressmen, that's the exception...lol jk, there are good ones out there. They are just hard to find.

The only reason I jumped on Obama is because the Obama side think they are bad, so I just used that to my advantage. However, the thing is these same side loves environmentalists, and have you ever heard of the Sierra Club? That is just one of the many environmental groups that have HUGE lobbying power in Washington.



I believe you have a college education, so I'm thinking it's very possible you were exposed to courses in Logic and Debate? So, you're probably familiar with the Latin term 'tu quoque'? (For those who haven't taken such courses, it translates to 'you too' and in this context is used to show possible inconsistencies in an opponent's argument, in that the same criticisms the opponent levels at the person/position/actions apply equally to his own). So while I think Obama's fundraising and possible influence peddling is certainly fair game for scrutiny, I'm not so sure you're being a fair and unbiased arbiter by virtue of your profession and it's own lobbying arm.

Let's face it, a conservative Rebublican president would probably be more to your liking and a better friend to the profession. Still, RPAC is probably reading the tea leaves and sees a Democratic sweep in the making and wants to hedge its bets by giving slightly more money to the Democrats during this cycle.



Washington needs lobbyists. A country with such huge territory, businesses, people, and infrastructure need very informed and dedicated people lobbying their causes. And, people lobbying opposition as well is done. That is fine and dandy, it is when the Congressman or woman gets a kickback, money directly into their state that is a bit shady, and so on that there is a real issue.



Somehow, I can't picture Thomas Jefferson or any of the founding fathers saying something similar. Granted, those were different times, but we've all heard in civics class that they apparently thought little of the two party system and the career politician. To me, lobbyists are one-in-the-same-- indeed, many career politicians _become_ lobbyists when the voters put them out to pasture.


As to lobbying, right now there is a huge effort in my state for property tax reform. It will benefit us realtors, but it will save a market crippled here by very high taxes. Homeowners and home buyers are being hit really really hard.


Yes, that's one promise Fast Eddie has failed to make good on, isn't it? Still, it seems to me that the housing bubble bursting is a far better explanation for the difficulties than playing the "Pin the Tax on the Donkey". Cheap money and fraud did far more damage than taxation ever could.


-Kerry O. "Politics, n., A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage."- Ambrose Bierce in 'The Devil's Dictionary'

Fanta46's photo
Mon 06/23/08 03:30 PM


Wow you did some serious research...lol.



Naw, just a few well-crafted queries to Google and years at arguing politics in various venues.




I knew we had a lobbying effort in Washington, and honestly I have no problems with most lobbyists. These people work with Congress members and people in their administrations.

There are good lobbyists and bad lobbyists. Just like there are good Realtors and bad Realtors. However, there are no good Congressmen, that's the exception...lol jk, there are good ones out there. They are just hard to find.

The only reason I jumped on Obama is because the Obama side think they are bad, so I just used that to my advantage. However, the thing is these same side loves environmentalists, and have you ever heard of the Sierra Club? That is just one of the many environmental groups that have HUGE lobbying power in Washington.



I believe you have a college education, so I'm thinking it's very possible you were exposed to courses in Logic and Debate? So, you're probably familiar with the Latin term 'tu quoque'? (For those who haven't taken such courses, it translates to 'you too' and in this context is used to show possible inconsistencies in an opponent's argument, in that the same criticisms the opponent levels at the person/position/actions apply equally to his own). So while I think Obama's fundraising and possible influence peddling is certainly fair game for scrutiny, I'm not so sure you're being a fair and unbiased arbiter by virtue of your profession and it's own lobbying arm.

Let's face it, a conservative Rebublican president would probably be more to your liking and a better friend to the profession. Still, RPAC is probably reading the tea leaves and sees a Democratic sweep in the making and wants to hedge its bets by giving slightly more money to the Democrats during this cycle.



Washington needs lobbyists. A country with such huge territory, businesses, people, and infrastructure need very informed and dedicated people lobbying their causes. And, people lobbying opposition as well is done. That is fine and dandy, it is when the Congressman or woman gets a kickback, money directly into their state that is a bit shady, and so on that there is a real issue.



Somehow, I can't picture Thomas Jefferson or any of the founding fathers saying something similar. Granted, those were different times, but we've all heard in civics class that they apparently thought little of the two party system and the career politician. To me, lobbyists are one-in-the-same-- indeed, many career politicians _become_ lobbyists when the voters put them out to pasture.


As to lobbying, right now there is a huge effort in my state for property tax reform. It will benefit us realtors, but it will save a market crippled here by very high taxes. Homeowners and home buyers are being hit really really hard.


Yes, that's one promise Fast Eddie has failed to make good on, isn't it? Still, it seems to me that the housing bubble bursting is a far better explanation for the difficulties than playing the "Pin the Tax on the Donkey". Cheap money and fraud did far more damage than taxation ever could.


-Kerry O. "Politics, n., A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage."- Ambrose Bierce in 'The Devil's Dictionary'


drinker

Dragoness's photo
Mon 06/23/08 03:44 PM


"Barack Obama is the number one recipient of hedge fund money in the '08 campaign for president." - http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=241190


LMAO
Why dont you spread more lies for the Republican web sites?

Sounds like they have the blinders on you tight! LOL

Now tell us what a terrorist he is sailor!!laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh


I guess the racist ideology has run it's course so now this will be the latest. If you look through McCains little dealings there is some funny business in there too. McCain is far worse than Obama and much more leathal to this country. No way McCain!!!!

Fanta46's photo
Mon 06/23/08 03:51 PM
Vote McCain and feel more pain!drinker drinker

Dragoness's photo
Mon 06/23/08 04:01 PM

Vote McCain and feel more pain!drinker drinker


I like that Fantaflowerforyou AND SOOOOOO TRUE IT IS!!!

banditshuman's photo
Mon 06/23/08 11:50 PM
Before I get flamed for this being my first post.... Howdy from the Great State of Texas! The ONLY State in the Union that can lay claim to having been a Republic. the only State in the Union whose citizens can legally fly our state flag the same height as the US flag. That said, I'd like to quote a few friends of mine for you. these good folks are from different places, and happen to share some of my views.

By Cheri Jacobus

"Just how much Senate experience does Barack Obama have in terms of actual work days? Not much.
From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working.
After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World, and fill the shoes of Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK and Ronald Reagan.
143 days -- I keep leftovers in my refrigerator longer than that.
In contrast, John McCain's 26 years in Congress, 22 years of military service including 1,966 days in captivity as a POW in Hanoi now seem more impressive than ever. At 71, John McCain may just be hitting his stride.
Think about IT!!!"

"And... if you look at his voting record, on average, when he would actually vote (do his job), he voted to raise taxes once every SEVEN days!

"The last thing we need is another tax and spend president! We need to vote based on a candidate's record and ability to think on his feet, not how he looks, ability to read a speech, whether he's 'politically correct', age or any other superficial and irrelevant qualities."

"This country was formed on the principals of capitalism and entrepreneurial spirit, not a welfare state. The dems are constantly looking for ways to hurt that spirit and take what the hard working people have earned to redistribute it to those who don't earn anything, yet I have never seen a poor political candidate. If they want to redistribute the wealth so badly, why don't they start at home, with themselves?"

These are just a few excerpts from a discussion forum that I belong to.
That 143 days of actual experience scares the hell outta me! Would you like to put your very existence in the hands of a doctor with 143 working days experience? I'm thinking to myself...they have GOT to be kidding. WHO IS this guy? Well, I guess it depends on who you choose to believe as to who he is.
For me and my vote, I'll choose experience, thank you.
A gun-totin' Texan Proud to call himself an American!
Charlie Daniels for president!

MirrorMirror's photo
Mon 06/23/08 11:59 PM

Before I get flamed for this being my first post.... Howdy from the Great State of Texas! The ONLY State in the Union that can lay claim to having been a Republic. the only State in the Union whose citizens can legally fly our state flag the same height as the US flag. That said, I'd like to quote a few friends of mine for you. these good folks are from different places, and happen to share some of my views.

By Cheri Jacobus

"Just how much Senate experience does Barack Obama have in terms of actual work days? Not much.
From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working.
After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World, and fill the shoes of Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK and Ronald Reagan.
143 days -- I keep leftovers in my refrigerator longer than that.
In contrast, John McCain's 26 years in Congress, 22 years of military service including 1,966 days in captivity as a POW in Hanoi now seem more impressive than ever. At 71, John McCain may just be hitting his stride.
Think about IT!!!"

"And... if you look at his voting record, on average, when he would actually vote (do his job), he voted to raise taxes once every SEVEN days!

"The last thing we need is another tax and spend president! We need to vote based on a candidate's record and ability to think on his feet, not how he looks, ability to read a speech, whether he's 'politically correct', age or any other superficial and irrelevant qualities."

"This country was formed on the principals of capitalism and entrepreneurial spirit, not a welfare state. The dems are constantly looking for ways to hurt that spirit and take what the hard working people have earned to redistribute it to those who don't earn anything, yet I have never seen a poor political candidate. If they want to redistribute the wealth so badly, why don't they start at home, with themselves?"

These are just a few excerpts from a discussion forum that I belong to.
That 143 days of actual experience scares the hell outta me! Would you like to put your very existence in the hands of a doctor with 143 working days experience? I'm thinking to myself...they have GOT to be kidding. WHO IS this guy? Well, I guess it depends on who you choose to believe as to who he is.
For me and my vote, I'll choose experience, thank you.
A gun-totin' Texan Proud to call himself an American!
Charlie Daniels for president!
flowerforyou Im for looking to the futureflowerforyou Im for hope flowerforyou

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