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Topic: Islam - a religion of war or peace?
Belushi's photo
Tue 06/17/08 08:58 AM
Do you think Islam is dangerous or is it a religion that is based upon the "love" ideal that Christianity espouses.

Which point of view is right?

They both are, I think.

Islam is not a homogenous religion. It is divided into many subgroups, including Sunni, Shi'ite, and Sufi. A very small, radical, hate-filled, extremist, Fundamentalist, terrorist wing does exist.

So too does a much larger peaceful, moderate wing.

Unfortunately, the former seem to capture all the media's attention, while the latter is rarely heard from.

It obvious that no one individual speaks for all Muslims. Islam has no single central human authority, comparable to the pope and Vatican for the Roman Catholic Church, or to various General Assemblies and the Lambeth Conferences for the Anglican Communion. Rather, it is divided into many traditions and schools.

This phenomenon is true of most religions. Consider the over 1,000 Christian groups in North America. They include some hate-filled groups as well:
- The Christian Identity movement.
- Various white supremacist organizations which usually consider themselves to be Christians.
- The terrorists who blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

The spread of terrorism within Islam appears to be due to the presence and interaction of a number of factors:

- A general renaissance of the religion of Islam throughout North Africa, the Middle East and parts of Asia.
(It will be the world's largest religion in 50 - 100 years)

- The after-effects of previous colonial oppression of Muslim countries

- Authoritarian dictatorships in the Middle East -- many of which are artificially propped up with American foreign policy -- with their depressing record of corruption, civil rights violations, and low standard of living. This results in a loss of hope among their public.

- The lack of separation between religion and the state in most Muslim countries.

- Two main conflicts: One of overwhelming importance in Palestine between Jews and Muslims; one in Kashmir between Hindus and Muslims.

But did you actually know that Yeshua of Nazerath (J.C) is still highly respected as the 2nd last prophet of Islam.

So, if both religions have the same root, share the same prophets and a majority of similarities, why is Islam seen as a threat?

Is it because we fear what we dont understand?

no photo
Tue 06/17/08 09:07 AM
That would be correct. We fear what we don't understand, and so much so, that we cannot open our ears and minds. I know of some lovely people who are Islamic. And like you point out, we only hear of the nasties. I'd take a devout (peaceful) Islamic friend over a pseudo-Christian like my own brother any day.

no photo
Tue 06/17/08 09:10 AM
Is Religion the CAUSE of War or Peace. That should be the question.

lilith401's photo
Tue 06/17/08 09:23 AM

Islam is no more dangerous than any other religion. Have you read the Qur'an? Have you met people of the Islamic faith? Have you gone to a masjid? Met an Imam?

I'm sorry, but I am offended by your question.

Ignorance can most easily be defined as fear of what one does not understand. Not gaining knowledge or seeking to increase knowledge is inexcusable. To form judgments or accept generalized and inaccurate statements about religious groups never ceases to amaze me. noway

Ever heard of Jim Jones? Purple Kool Aid, anyone?

Belushi's photo
Tue 06/17/08 09:49 AM

Islam is no more dangerous than any other religion.

Very true

Have you read the Qur'an?

twice

Have you met people of the Islamic faith?

I currently live in Egypt. I have lived here before for nearly 18months
I have lived in Malaysia, Thailand & Indonesia.
So, yes I have

Have you gone to a masjid?

Yes and attended a couple of prayer sessions

Met an Imam?

Yes.

I'm sorry, but I am offended by your question.

Then your sensibilities need a little tuning, Im afraid

Ignorance can most easily be defined as fear of what one does not understand. Not gaining knowledge or seeking to increase knowledge is inexcusable. To form judgments or accept generalized and inaccurate statements about religious groups never ceases to amaze me. noway


Wont get any argument from me there.

Ever heard of Jim Jones? Purple Kool Aid, anyone?

Actually no. But then Im British. I guess they are North American

Belushi's photo
Tue 06/17/08 09:51 AM

Is Religion the CAUSE of War or Peace. That should be the question.


... and that is a very good question too.

We all want peace. But does religious intolerance create the disharmony the majority of us want to avoid? I would say yes.

lilith401's photo
Tue 06/17/08 09:54 AM
So then I am guessing your question is posed to see what the general ignorance level is?

Belushi's photo
Tue 06/17/08 09:57 AM
I would actually like to know why Islam (on the whole) is seen as a threat, when there are startling similarities to christianity.

Between them, they make up just under 50% of the world's population.

... and yes, to see if the discontent with islam is because of ignorance.

lilith401's photo
Tue 06/17/08 10:00 AM
I do not see Islam as a threat. You'd have to first ask if people do see it as a threat and if they say yes, then ask why. But I can't help you, I think Islam is beautiful. Not for me, but I see the appeal.

Google Jim Jones, it is an interesting read.

no photo
Tue 06/17/08 10:30 AM

Do you think Islam is dangerous or is it a religion that is based upon the "love" ideal that Christianity espouses.

Which point of view is right?

They both are, I think.

Islam is not a homogenous religion. It is divided into many subgroups, including Sunni, Shi'ite, and Sufi. A very small, radical, hate-filled, extremist, Fundamentalist, terrorist wing does exist.

So too does a much larger peaceful, moderate wing.

Unfortunately, the former seem to capture all the media's attention, while the latter is rarely heard from.

It obvious that no one individual speaks for all Muslims. Islam has no single central human authority, comparable to the pope and Vatican for the Roman Catholic Church, or to various General Assemblies and the Lambeth Conferences for the Anglican Communion. Rather, it is divided into many traditions and schools.

This phenomenon is true of most religions. Consider the over 1,000 Christian groups in North America. They include some hate-filled groups as well:
- The Christian Identity movement.
- Various white supremacist organizations which usually consider themselves to be Christians.
- The terrorists who blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

The spread of terrorism within Islam appears to be due to the presence and interaction of a number of factors:

- A general renaissance of the religion of Islam throughout North Africa, the Middle East and parts of Asia.
(It will be the world's largest religion in 50 - 100 years)

- The after-effects of previous colonial oppression of Muslim countries

- Authoritarian dictatorships in the Middle East -- many of which are artificially propped up with American foreign policy -- with their depressing record of corruption, civil rights violations, and low standard of living. This results in a loss of hope among their public.

- The lack of separation between religion and the state in most Muslim countries.

- Two main conflicts: One of overwhelming importance in Palestine between Jews and Muslims; one in Kashmir between Hindus and Muslims.

But did you actually know that Yeshua of Nazerath (J.C) is still highly respected as the 2nd last prophet of Islam.

So, if both religions have the same root, share the same prophets and a majority of similarities, why is Islam seen as a threat?

Is it because we fear what we dont understand?

One cool dude.drinker .....Would love to exchange views with you.Btw. Not only Issaa( PBUH) as we call Jesus Christ ;Moses,Abraham,Issac : They are also high esteemed prophets to all the muslims. The act of terrorism and the concept of collateral damage is a sin in Islam.The 3 important religions coming from the middle east are based on the heavenly books( INJEEL= Holy Bible,The Taurat & The Quran).It is the duty of every Muslim to acknowledge each and every of these original Heavenly Books .

Abracadabra's photo
Tue 06/17/08 10:36 AM
Do you think Islam is dangerous or is it a religion that is based upon the "love" ideal that Christianity espouses.

Which point of view is right?

They both are, I think.


As far as I'm concerned Islam, Christianity, and Judsism are all the same religion. They have simply been twisted and contorted into different faces (Kind of like the three faces of Eve). laugh

I think it's interesting how that title fits so well.

All three religions can be used to support peace or war. All three religions can be used to support bigotry and abuse, or not.

They are all the result of the same, or very similar Mediterranean folklore. They all believe in a judgmental godhead who has likes, dislikes, and needs to be worshipped.

They are all ulimately authoritarian religions demanding that books contain the rules of God.

I personally feel that any authoritarian ideology is fundamentally unhealthy and will ulimately lead to conflict.

They can only work in a world where everyone is in agreement with the interpretations of the rules, and in agreement that the rules truly make sense and came from a genuinley loving God.

I could never be convinced that any of the Mediterranean folklore makes sense. So I could never be part of such a world. They would have to kill me before they could achieve their utopia of a world who recognizes a single godhead.

And since there are at least three religions based on this concept. How could they ever find peace until at least two of the religions are convert back into one? But which one?

They are all distortions. Just flip a three-sided coin and see which face of Eve comes up I guess.



Belushi's photo
Tue 06/17/08 10:42 AM

Is it because we fear what we dont understand?

One cool dude.drinker .....Would love to exchange views with you.Btw. Not only Issaa( PBUH) as we call Jesus Christ ;Moses,Abraham,Issac : They are also high esteemed prophets to all the muslims. The act of terrorism and the concept of collateral damage is a sin in Islam.The 3 important religions coming from the middle east are based on the heavenly books( INJEEL= Holy Bible,The Taurat & The Quran).It is the duty of every Muslim to acknowledge each and every of these original Heavenly Books .


As usual the minority spoils it for the majority.

I nearly got into a debate with the owner of the dive company I work for here in Dahab, because he said that the Malaysian muslims are better at it than the Egyptians.
The reasoning behind this was that Egyptians had been "born" muslims, and the Malaysians had to be converted.
I was on the verge of telling him that was complete poppycock, when I remembered he was my employer.
But the prayers are the same throughout islam, the ideals are generally the same.

But if you draw the parallels with Christianity as James has just said, there are so many things that make them all the same.

Just as Catholics and Protestants disagree on methods of worship, so do the root branches of Islam and Christianity.

Its all the same really

no photo
Tue 06/17/08 11:34 AM
"Popycock ".....That he is.Lol.Actually the non practicing muslims have grown more in number since the days of our beloved Muhammed.For example :1# monarchy is strictly prohibited in islam.2# A true muslim can never enjoy a good nights sleep while his neighbour is starving.BTW. Do you know that muslims also have a ritual like the baptizing of a new born?

Belushi's photo
Tue 06/17/08 11:41 AM

"Popycock ".....That he is.Lol.Actually the non practicing muslims have grown more in number since the days of our beloved Muhammed.For example :1# monarchy is strictly prohibited in islam.2# A true muslim can never enjoy a good nights sleep while his neighbour is starving.BTW. Do you know that muslims also have a ritual like the baptizing of a new born?


They have lots of ceremonies that are akin to christian ones.

Which is why it makes me wonder with such similarities why doesnt christianity recognise islam as a brother religion in the same way it recognises catholicism?

BrandonJItaliano's photo
Tue 06/17/08 11:57 AM
Edited by BrandonJItaliano on Tue 06/17/08 11:58 AM
Forcefull, un respectfull radicals in any relgion are Dangerous. I speak of people like Pat Robertson in the same breath as Osama Bin-laden.

When both religions are followed closly by there own liturature, there VERY VERY SIMILIAR, and i think thats why they dont get along

Belushi's photo
Tue 06/17/08 12:04 PM

Forcefull, un respectfull radicals in any relgion are Dangerous. I speak of people like Pat Robertson in the same breath as Osama Bin-laden.

When both religions are followed closly by there own liturature, there VERY VERY SIMILIAR, and i think thats why they dont get along


Islam recognises Christianity, it is Christianity that refuses to allow any other religion to be another path

no photo
Tue 06/17/08 12:13 PM
Religious wars have been going on for centuries...currently Catholics have the upper hand after hundreds of years of persecution, killings and annialation (sp?), of heathens,heretics and anyone else that didnt conform or follow dogmatic doctrines. So now with the event of modern warfare.., guided bombs, biological weapons, etc..the other side has a bit more leverage to fight back with ..the wars between religions has never ended, and never will until there is no one left or until mothers and fathers love their children more than they hate their enemies.

no photo
Tue 06/17/08 12:26 PM
Guys,sometimes I wonder,why aren't our so called religious Gurus have the decency to have dialogue like this with each other? May be its our fault that we have let them to monopolize the religions.

adj4u's photo
Tue 06/17/08 12:31 PM
organized religion is for those that need to be guided as to what they need to think

myself i feel that every organized religion has itz extremist in both directions violence and passivity

i also think every organized religion contradicts its self way to often to be taken at face value

just a thought

but hey

what do i know

Belushi's photo
Tue 06/17/08 12:36 PM

Guys,sometimes I wonder,why aren't our so called religious Gurus have the decency to have dialogue like this with each other? May be its our fault that we have let them to monopolize the religions.


Because if there was such a conversation the chances of a peaceful co-existance would still be a pipedream.

Having to select three pious men to dictate to 2.5 billion people, when the acquisition of wealth is always going to be more important than what your neighbour thinks or does, would be too much for the 3 wisemen to bear!

Its why you could never have a JSH nativity play.

You couldnt find 3 wise men and a virgin!

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