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| Topic: Here's you a challenge... | |
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 oh, this is hilarious   lol yup! I love it when things can stay light and airy on the religious threads hehehe I'm rather enjoying it  i know.... i love it.....   even funches has lightened up  Who would have thought one of my posts could bring so many people together Here's to everyone!! The religion forums are often like a funeral procession. If people took themselves just a bit less seriously there would be a lot less hatred and a lot more fun in life. Fart in the bathtub if you don't believe me. You will understand. My 2 yr old does that! Then points, laughs hystarically and in between gasps of breath yells "Bubbles!" Out-freakin'-standing! lol It says a lot for my life...but those are the highlight of my day Just his reaction...he gets sooo happy about fart bubbles, and he'll try sooo hard to do it again. All so he can laugh and point and yell "Bubbles! Mama...bubbles!" Just so he doesn't push so hard that he says "look mom! a Baby Ruth bar". There is no wonder why we envy the innocence of the little ones. It brings a smile to my face just reading about your joy. Please help him to not lose that joy. You ROCK mom!
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I for one get tired of the obtuse responses. The original question was very simple. If someone was interested in hearing about your religion and what you believe, but you were unable to quote scripture how would you convey those thoughts? What would you say? I am presuming by the wording that this is meant to be a question for "Christians". Yes but isn't it already redundant? The scenario suggests that person who is supposed to be interested has already read the book cover to cover several times and while they found it interesting They don't believe it is godly words. Why would they still be interested in something that they have already concluded to be "ungodly"? It seems to me that the whole scenario is amiss. This would be like someone saying, "The idea of some guy living at the North Pole who single-handedly rides around in a flying sleigh pulled by flying raindeer lands on people's roofs and shimmies down their chimneys never getting sooty looking seems utterly impossible. But I WANT TO BELIEVE that Santa Claus exists! PLEASE explain to me how I can believe in Santa Claus without having to believe in the STORY! That's basically what the person would be asking. ok the question is intended to make the reader consider (regardless of whether they answer) if they have enough knowledge of what they believe is "God" to convey this belief withought being able to repeat words from a book like a parrot, cut and paste from a scripture debate site meant to help those without any understanding propogate and defend the bible or christian faith, or simply ignore everything said and insert scripture that may or may not have anything to do with the sitiuation or their belief. The Goal per my personal comprehension of the question is to see if proffessed Christians engaging in these discussions have any thoughts of their own whatsoever, and whether they are capable of sharing those thoughts. Presuming they do have their own minds and are able to do so, it gives insight on their PERSONAL belief once they stop pasting, playing, and repeating scripture that they may or may not understand. Exactly :) A testimony of sorts...I'm sure they've come upon this several times before...but in those cases they were probably able to use scriptures. But, if the person doesn't believe in the bible (at the time) scriptures wouldn't really sway their decision. One would think that first, you have to understand everything else...and then delve into the scripture. When they have a better sense of why others value it and belive it. I know me personally (and my sisters and several friends) don't believe in the bible...so bible quotes wouldn't really mean anything to me no matter how many were read to me. Hence the challenge to it... There is supernatural power in knowing God. No one can percieve His word unless he REVEALS it to them. I think the problem here is that YOUR aim is off. Instead of challenging us ask God to reveal it to you. I know I know! It's easier to just make fun at what you don't know. I got that....  ...but is it no wonder why you aren't "getting it?"
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Paul taught Christianity without a Bible.....He completely lived & understood who Jesus was & what His teachings meant....i would think that if you believed that the Bible is the living Word of God & that you try to live your life accordingly, then you wouldn't need to be quoting scripture to share your understanding & wisdom....you would've internalized your knowledge & experiences.....Can others see the goodness in you?....Do you live your life as an example of God's Love?
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Paul taught Christianity without a Bible.....He completely lived & understood who Jesus was & what His teachings meant....i would think that if you believed that the Bible is the living Word of God & that you try to live your life accordingly, then you wouldn't need to be quoting scripture to share your understanding & wisdom....you would've internalized your knowledge & experiences.....Can others see the goodness in you?....Do you live your life as an example of God's Love? Well let's see...we have the OT.... that is part of the Bible. The law was presented to Moses but GRACE & truth came through Jesus. Well the disciples didn't have the word but they did have the OT & they also had JESUS! Jesus taught them what they needed to know. THEY wrote down God's word as the spirt led them. We get God's word from them & their writings about Jesus. It was to share their experience in God's GRACE. We do not just quote the word of God but live it. It's a LIVING word which is why we refer to it. My experience has been that I experience something, spiritual manifestations of God, & then later on find it in the Bible. Then I KNOW it's from God. God tells us to test & approve what His good & acceptable & perfect will is...and to also test the spirits. How do you know what you are subjecting yourself to if you have not guideline? Another silly notion being touted by unbelievers is equating our relationship with God as being "pets." That is absurd when God so graciously invites us to join Him because He loves us. We are His children!!! We should be thankful ... He could just destroy all humanity, but He doesn't. He loves us! |
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I for one get tired of the obtuse responses. The original question was very simple. If someone was interested in hearing about your religion and what you believe, but you were unable to quote scripture how would you convey those thoughts? What would you say? I am presuming by the wording that this is meant to be a question for "Christians". Yes but isn't it already redundant? The scenario suggests that person who is supposed to be interested has already read the book cover to cover several times and while they found it interesting They don't believe it is godly words. Why would they still be interested in something that they have already concluded to be "ungodly"? It seems to me that the whole scenario is amiss. This would be like someone saying, "The idea of some guy living at the North Pole who single-handedly rides around in a flying sleigh pulled by flying raindeer lands on people's roofs and shimmies down their chimneys never getting sooty looking seems utterly impossible. But I WANT TO BELIEVE that Santa Claus exists! PLEASE explain to me how I can believe in Santa Claus without having to believe in the STORY! That's basically what the person would be asking. ok the question is intended to make the reader consider (regardless of whether they answer) if they have enough knowledge of what they believe is "God" to convey this belief withought being able to repeat words from a book like a parrot, cut and paste from a scripture debate site meant to help those without any understanding propogate and defend the bible or christian faith, or simply ignore everything said and insert scripture that may or may not have anything to do with the sitiuation or their belief. The Goal per my personal comprehension of the question is to see if proffessed Christians engaging in these discussions have any thoughts of their own whatsoever, and whether they are capable of sharing those thoughts. Presuming they do have their own minds and are able to do so, it gives insight on their PERSONAL belief once they stop pasting, playing, and repeating scripture that they may or may not understand. Exactly :) A testimony of sorts...I'm sure they've come upon this several times before...but in those cases they were probably able to use scriptures. But, if the person doesn't believe in the bible (at the time) scriptures wouldn't really sway their decision. One would think that first, you have to understand everything else...and then delve into the scripture. When they have a better sense of why others value it and belive it. I know me personally (and my sisters and several friends) don't believe in the bible...so bible quotes wouldn't really mean anything to me no matter how many were read to me. Hence the challenge to it... There is supernatural power in knowing God. No one can percieve His word unless he REVEALS it to them. I think the problem here is that YOUR aim is off. Instead of challenging us ask God to reveal it to you. I know I know! It's easier to just make fun at what you don't know. I got that.... ...but is it no wonder why you aren't "getting it?" Actually...the original question was purely generalized. I was curious how someone would approach someone like that (based off a previous conversation I had had with someone) and I'm in no way "making fun" of anyone or anything. It's a genuine question of curiosity. I personally never asked to "get" anything nor have anyone try to reveal anything to me specifically. This question came up from a discussion I had with one of my sisters (who claims no religion, like myself) and some friends (who are Baptist) who were having a civil and rather enjoyable conversation on the topic. They were reading us scriptures (all in good, fun loving fashion) while trying to prove a point they were trying to make. My sister had brought up the thing of "how would you convert people if you couldn't use your bible?" and everyone laughed, but it stumped our friends. I thought I would pose the same challenge here to see how others would do it. It saddens me to know you think me so cruel and close minded, even downright vicious as to make fun of other people's beliefs. All of my questions are purely based upon curiousity and a chance to learn something new. I re-read my posts before and after posting to make sure that my responses don't sound mean-hearted or spiteful because that's not my intention at all. I would never purposely hurt someone else. However, a lot of your posts seem to have that pure goal in mind. I'm sorry that you took a simple and innocent question and twisted it into a vicious monster with the intent of hurting you. That thought had never crossed my mind until you put it there. |
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I for one get tired of the obtuse responses. The original question was very simple. If someone was interested in hearing about your religion and what you believe, but you were unable to quote scripture how would you convey those thoughts? What would you say? I am presuming by the wording that this is meant to be a question for "Christians". Yes but isn't it already redundant? The scenario suggests that person who is supposed to be interested has already read the book cover to cover several times and while they found it interesting They don't believe it is godly words. Why would they still be interested in something that they have already concluded to be "ungodly"? It seems to me that the whole scenario is amiss. This would be like someone saying, "The idea of some guy living at the North Pole who single-handedly rides around in a flying sleigh pulled by flying raindeer lands on people's roofs and shimmies down their chimneys never getting sooty looking seems utterly impossible. But I WANT TO BELIEVE that Santa Claus exists! PLEASE explain to me how I can believe in Santa Claus without having to believe in the STORY! That's basically what the person would be asking. ok the question is intended to make the reader consider (regardless of whether they answer) if they have enough knowledge of what they believe is "God" to convey this belief withought being able to repeat words from a book like a parrot, cut and paste from a scripture debate site meant to help those without any understanding propogate and defend the bible or christian faith, or simply ignore everything said and insert scripture that may or may not have anything to do with the sitiuation or their belief. The Goal per my personal comprehension of the question is to see if proffessed Christians engaging in these discussions have any thoughts of their own whatsoever, and whether they are capable of sharing those thoughts. Presuming they do have their own minds and are able to do so, it gives insight on their PERSONAL belief once they stop pasting, playing, and repeating scripture that they may or may not understand. Exactly :) A testimony of sorts...I'm sure they've come upon this several times before...but in those cases they were probably able to use scriptures. But, if the person doesn't believe in the bible (at the time) scriptures wouldn't really sway their decision. One would think that first, you have to understand everything else...and then delve into the scripture. When they have a better sense of why others value it and belive it. I know me personally (and my sisters and several friends) don't believe in the bible...so bible quotes wouldn't really mean anything to me no matter how many were read to me. Hence the challenge to it... There is supernatural power in knowing God. No one can percieve His word unless he REVEALS it to them. I think the problem here is that YOUR aim is off. Instead of challenging us ask God to reveal it to you. I know I know! It's easier to just make fun at what you don't know. I got that.... ...but is it no wonder why you aren't "getting it?" Actually...the original question was purely generalized. I was curious how someone would approach someone like that (based off a previous conversation I had had with someone) and I'm in no way "making fun" of anyone or anything. It's a genuine question of curiosity. I personally never asked to "get" anything nor have anyone try to reveal anything to me specifically. This question came up from a discussion I had with one of my sisters (who claims no religion, like myself) and some friends (who are Baptist) who were having a civil and rather enjoyable conversation on the topic. They were reading us scriptures (all in good, fun loving fashion) while trying to prove a point they were trying to make. My sister had brought up the thing of "how would you convert people if you couldn't use your bible?" and everyone laughed, but it stumped our friends. I thought I would pose the same challenge here to see how others would do it. It saddens me to know you think me so cruel and close minded, even downright vicious as to make fun of other people's beliefs. All of my questions are purely based upon curiousity and a chance to learn something new. I re-read my posts before and after posting to make sure that my responses don't sound mean-hearted or spiteful because that's not my intention at all. I would never purposely hurt someone else. However, a lot of your posts seem to have that pure goal in mind. I'm sorry that you took a simple and innocent question and twisted it into a vicious monster with the intent of hurting you. That thought had never crossed my mind until you put it there. WOW! Go back and read the thread. Your response is really calling the kettle black. So you all are tired of us giving you the same answers then stop repeating your questions. Do you think you will eventually get a different result? LOL That's absurd. We know what we believe in by the power of God's spirit as engrafted in our hearts & minds by the SPIRIT of His word. How many times do you have to ask the same questions? It is tiring to keep explaining the same old thing only to get..."well I don't believe it." DUH!!!!! Then why ask when you know you aren't going to like the answer?????? BTW...go back & read the thread & you will see how insulting it is to people who do believe. Maybe we get tired of the same old silly questions & people who use cop out excuses to disregard what is being said when they are the ones who are frustrated. We also get tired of being misquoted as well as what we say being twisted into something it's not. So if you want to point fingers remember there's a bunch pointing back atcha. |
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So you all are tired of us giving you the same answers then stop repeating your questions. Do you think you will eventually get a different result? LOL That's absurd. Actually, I personally only have 2 or 3 threads on this board...and as this is a different question naturally it wouldn't be the same answers. And I wasn't asking for "different results" I was asking how someone would go about doing it. Such as with my friends...who weren't sure. And others on here who responded that they would give their testimony on why they believe what they believe and why the bible is so important to them before sharing scriptures that helped them learn that it was the right religion for them, and then of course the other responses We know what we believe in by the power of God's spirit as engrafted in our hearts & minds by the SPIRIT of His word. How many times do you have to ask the same questions? It is tiring to keep explaining the same old thing only to get..."well I don't believe it." DUH!!!!! Then why ask when you know you aren't going to like the answer?????? Again....I have only asked 2 or 3 questions. One, being this thread...and the other I know of off the top of my head being the one about billboards (which again...was pure curiousity) Honestly, I havn't seen those questions asked repeatedly, hence the reason I brought them up. I thought they were interesting and never imagined they would be taken in the directions they were. I can understand how answering the same questions over and over again would become tiring...however, as I personally havn't asked repeated questions of you I don't understand your anger at me personally. If there is already a thread that covers my question, rather than get angry with me for unintentionally re-asking something, why not just copy/paste the link to the existing thread for me? I apologize for my unknowningly adding to your frustration with everyone...but I assure you...it was unintentional. As to the "I don't believe it" part...again, these are mere questions of curiousity and intended on a general term. The same as I am repeatedly asked "Well...why don't you believe this?" or "What exactly do you believe?" and etc etc. BTW...go back & read the thread & you will see how insulting it is to people who do believe. Maybe we get tired of the same old silly questions & people who use cop out excuses to disregard what is being said when they are the ones who are frustrated. I hadn't intended it to be insulting? I was genuinely curious. And again, I didn't realize anyone had already asked this...or that it was silly. I was always taught "there is no such thing as a stupid question". And I'm not frustrated nor did I realize I was using "cop out excuses" to "disregard" anyone. Again...that was not my intention. We also get tired of being misquoted as well as what we say being twisted into something it's not. So if you want to point fingers remember there's a bunch pointing back atcha. Apparently I misunderstood you, then. Because, from the way I interpreted what you were saying I didn't realize I was twisting anything. You're responses, by my personal interpretation, were very angry and sometimes borderline mean natured. If that was not the case then I apologize. It's easy to mis-read things when you can't hear the tone of voice with the words and you can only read the words. From what I was reading, you seemed to be furious with me and taking your frustrations out and misunderstanding what my original question was. I hadn't intended it to be stupid, petty, insulting or anything else beyond pure curiousity. As you've said on other threads..."Sometimes a person has to hear the word of god several times before it finally settles in" (paraphrasing naturally) To the fingerpointing issue you brought up...I wasn't trying to point fingers, persay, again...it was a misunderstanding and I felt that you were taking a lot of anger out on me and misunderstanding what I was saying. By what I had read, I wasn't pointing any fingers and hadn't done any of the things you were accusing me of. Obviously it was a misunderstanding on both parts and I apologize for any that was on my end. |
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. r?????? BTW...go back & read the thread & you will see how insulting it is to people who do believe. Maybe we get tired of the same old silly questions & people who use cop out excuses to disregard what is being said when they are the ones who are frustrated. I hadn't intended it to be insulting? I was genuinely curious. And again, I didn't realize anyone had already asked this...or that it was silly. I was always taught "there is no such thing as a stupid question". And I'm not frustrated nor did I realize I was using "cop out excuses" to "disregard" anyone. Again...that was not my intention. We also get tired of being misquoted as well as what we say being twisted into something it's not. So if you want to point fingers remember there's a bunch pointing back atcha. Apparently I misunderstood you, then. Because, from the way I interpreted what you were saying I didn't realize I was twisting anything. You're responses, by my personal interpretation, were very angry and sometimes borderline mean natured. If that was not the case then I apologize. It's easy to mis-read things when you can't hear the tone of voice with the words and you can only read the words. From what I was reading, you seemed to be furious with me and taking your frustrations out and misunderstanding what my original question was. I hadn't intended it to be stupid, petty, insulting or anything else beyond pure curiousity. As you've said on other threads..."Sometimes a person has to hear the word of god several times before it finally settles in" (paraphrasing naturally) To the fingerpointing issue you brought up...I wasn't trying to point fingers, persay, again...it was a misunderstanding and I felt that you were taking a lot of anger out on me and misunderstanding what I was saying. By what I had read, I wasn't pointing any fingers and hadn't done any of the things you were accusing me of. Obviously it was a misunderstanding on both parts and I apologize for any that was on my end. Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Christians backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Christians & Christianity, the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to faith that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of bible thumping etc etc. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about. Anything less than faith in action & the birth of God's spirit living in man is the real lie. Not only because God's word says so, but because I experienced it & that spirit life of Jesus lives in me. |
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Edited by
Rathil_Thads
on
Sat 06/21/08 06:17 AM
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. r?????? BTW...go back & read the thread & you will see how insulting it is to people who do believe. Maybe we get tired of the same old silly questions & people who use cop out excuses to disregard what is being said when they are the ones who are frustrated. I hadn't intended it to be insulting? I was genuinely curious. And again, I didn't realize anyone had already asked this...or that it was silly. I was always taught "there is no such thing as a stupid question". And I'm not frustrated nor did I realize I was using "cop out excuses" to "disregard" anyone. Again...that was not my intention. We also get tired of being misquoted as well as what we say being twisted into something it's not. So if you want to point fingers remember there's a bunch pointing back atcha. Apparently I misunderstood you, then. Because, from the way I interpreted what you were saying I didn't realize I was twisting anything. You're responses, by my personal interpretation, were very angry and sometimes borderline mean natured. If that was not the case then I apologize. It's easy to mis-read things when you can't hear the tone of voice with the words and you can only read the words. From what I was reading, you seemed to be furious with me and taking your frustrations out and misunderstanding what my original question was. I hadn't intended it to be stupid, petty, insulting or anything else beyond pure curiousity. As you've said on other threads..."Sometimes a person has to hear the word of god several times before it finally settles in" (paraphrasing naturally) To the fingerpointing issue you brought up...I wasn't trying to point fingers, persay, again...it was a misunderstanding and I felt that you were taking a lot of anger out on me and misunderstanding what I was saying. By what I had read, I wasn't pointing any fingers and hadn't done any of the things you were accusing me of. Obviously it was a misunderstanding on both parts and I apologize for any that was on my end. QUICKSTEPPER SAID: Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Christians backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Christians & Christianity, the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to faith that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of bible thumping etc etc. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about. Anything less than faith in action & the birth of God's spirit living in man is the real lie. Not only because God's word says so, but because I experienced it & that spirit life of Jesus lives in me. RATHIL_THADS SAID: Okay, I just need to point out the irony of this post because this seems like exactly the type of response I would write to you talking about paganism and some of the other religions that differ from yours. In fact let me just change a few things and we will see how it works out. "Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Pagans backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Pagans and satanists the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to other faiths that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of worshipping false gods and spreading evil. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about." |
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. r?????? BTW...go back & read the thread & you will see how insulting it is to people who do believe. Maybe we get tired of the same old silly questions & people who use cop out excuses to disregard what is being said when they are the ones who are frustrated. I hadn't intended it to be insulting? I was genuinely curious. And again, I didn't realize anyone had already asked this...or that it was silly. I was always taught "there is no such thing as a stupid question". And I'm not frustrated nor did I realize I was using "cop out excuses" to "disregard" anyone. Again...that was not my intention. We also get tired of being misquoted as well as what we say being twisted into something it's not. So if you want to point fingers remember there's a bunch pointing back atcha. Apparently I misunderstood you, then. Because, from the way I interpreted what you were saying I didn't realize I was twisting anything. You're responses, by my personal interpretation, were very angry and sometimes borderline mean natured. If that was not the case then I apologize. It's easy to mis-read things when you can't hear the tone of voice with the words and you can only read the words. From what I was reading, you seemed to be furious with me and taking your frustrations out and misunderstanding what my original question was. I hadn't intended it to be stupid, petty, insulting or anything else beyond pure curiousity. As you've said on other threads..."Sometimes a person has to hear the word of god several times before it finally settles in" (paraphrasing naturally) To the fingerpointing issue you brought up...I wasn't trying to point fingers, persay, again...it was a misunderstanding and I felt that you were taking a lot of anger out on me and misunderstanding what I was saying. By what I had read, I wasn't pointing any fingers and hadn't done any of the things you were accusing me of. Obviously it was a misunderstanding on both parts and I apologize for any that was on my end. QUICKSTEPPER SAID: Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Christians backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Christians & Christianity, the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to faith that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of bible thumping etc etc. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about. Anything less than faith in action & the birth of God's spirit living in man is the real lie. Not only because God's word says so, but because I experienced it & that spirit life of Jesus lives in me. RATHIL_THADS SAID: Okay, I just need to point out the irony of this post because this seems like exactly the type of response I would write to you talking about paganism and some of the other religions that differ from yours. In fact let me just change a few things and we will see how it works out. "Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Pagans backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Pagans and satanists the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to other faiths that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of worshipping false gods and spreading evil. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about." First of all sharing what God says about others gods from HIS word is one thing. After that.... No one here, Christians...including myself...has EVER called pagans etc etc, uneducated or backwards for what they believe. that is a HUGE misconception that I am referring to. I can't stop you from following what you want, but I just ask people here to keep an open mind about God Jehovah & His Son Jesus. This is about as open minded as I will get in that while there is life there is hope for all men through Christ Jesus. One day you will exhaust yourselves out looking for that inner peace ... don't make it hard for yourselves by closing a door you might want to open again one day...is all I ask. God bless...
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Edited by
Rathil_Thads
on
Sat 06/21/08 06:58 AM
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. r?????? BTW...go back & read the thread & you will see how insulting it is to people who do believe. Maybe we get tired of the same old silly questions & people who use cop out excuses to disregard what is being said when they are the ones who are frustrated. I hadn't intended it to be insulting? I was genuinely curious. And again, I didn't realize anyone had already asked this...or that it was silly. I was always taught "there is no such thing as a stupid question". And I'm not frustrated nor did I realize I was using "cop out excuses" to "disregard" anyone. Again...that was not my intention. We also get tired of being misquoted as well as what we say being twisted into something it's not. So if you want to point fingers remember there's a bunch pointing back atcha. Apparently I misunderstood you, then. Because, from the way I interpreted what you were saying I didn't realize I was twisting anything. You're responses, by my personal interpretation, were very angry and sometimes borderline mean natured. If that was not the case then I apologize. It's easy to mis-read things when you can't hear the tone of voice with the words and you can only read the words. From what I was reading, you seemed to be furious with me and taking your frustrations out and misunderstanding what my original question was. I hadn't intended it to be stupid, petty, insulting or anything else beyond pure curiousity. As you've said on other threads..."Sometimes a person has to hear the word of god several times before it finally settles in" (paraphrasing naturally) To the fingerpointing issue you brought up...I wasn't trying to point fingers, persay, again...it was a misunderstanding and I felt that you were taking a lot of anger out on me and misunderstanding what I was saying. By what I had read, I wasn't pointing any fingers and hadn't done any of the things you were accusing me of. Obviously it was a misunderstanding on both parts and I apologize for any that was on my end. QUICKSTEPPER SAID: Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Christians backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Christians & Christianity, the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to faith that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of bible thumping etc etc. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about. Anything less than faith in action & the birth of God's spirit living in man is the real lie. Not only because God's word says so, but because I experienced it & that spirit life of Jesus lives in me. RATHIL_THADS SAID: Okay, I just need to point out the irony of this post because this seems like exactly the type of response I would write to you talking about paganism and some of the other religions that differ from yours. In fact let me just change a few things and we will see how it works out. "Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Pagans backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Pagans and satanists the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to other faiths that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of worshipping false gods and spreading evil. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about." First of all sharing what God says about others gods from HIS word is one thing. After that.... No one here, Christians...including myself...has EVER called pagans etc etc, uneducated or backwards for what they believe. that is a HUGE misconception that I am referring to. I can't stop you from following what you want, but I just ask people here to keep an open mind about God Jehovah & His Son Jesus. This is about as open minded as I will get in that while there is life there is hope for all men through Christ Jesus. One day you will exhaust yourselves out looking for that inner peace ... don't make it hard for yourselves by closing a door you might want to open again one day...is all I ask. God bless... Well to be fair I have never seen anyone on here call Christians backwards or uneducated, at least not in those exact words. I have however seen people who knew nothing about Christianity posting about things they don't understand, Just like I have seen Christians posting things about pagans they don't understand. I would repost those things here but last time that was brought up the threads got deleted for inappropriateness so I will avoid that for now. As for exhausting myself looking for inner peace. That I fear is not possible because I already have inner peace. There is no need for me to look farther because I have been at peace with myself for years and man is it liberating to know that. The cool thing about that inner peace is that I know that because I am at peace with myself. Any door I have ever been through is open for me to walk through any time I want too. I don't need to close off other avenues to myself in order to progress further in my life. Although at the same time I don't need to waste my time backtracking either. |
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. r?????? BTW...go back & read the thread & you will see how insulting it is to people who do believe. Maybe we get tired of the same old silly questions & people who use cop out excuses to disregard what is being said when they are the ones who are frustrated. I hadn't intended it to be insulting? I was genuinely curious. And again, I didn't realize anyone had already asked this...or that it was silly. I was always taught "there is no such thing as a stupid question". And I'm not frustrated nor did I realize I was using "cop out excuses" to "disregard" anyone. Again...that was not my intention. We also get tired of being misquoted as well as what we say being twisted into something it's not. So if you want to point fingers remember there's a bunch pointing back atcha. Apparently I misunderstood you, then. Because, from the way I interpreted what you were saying I didn't realize I was twisting anything. You're responses, by my personal interpretation, were very angry and sometimes borderline mean natured. If that was not the case then I apologize. It's easy to mis-read things when you can't hear the tone of voice with the words and you can only read the words. From what I was reading, you seemed to be furious with me and taking your frustrations out and misunderstanding what my original question was. I hadn't intended it to be stupid, petty, insulting or anything else beyond pure curiousity. As you've said on other threads..."Sometimes a person has to hear the word of god several times before it finally settles in" (paraphrasing naturally) To the fingerpointing issue you brought up...I wasn't trying to point fingers, persay, again...it was a misunderstanding and I felt that you were taking a lot of anger out on me and misunderstanding what I was saying. By what I had read, I wasn't pointing any fingers and hadn't done any of the things you were accusing me of. Obviously it was a misunderstanding on both parts and I apologize for any that was on my end. QUICKSTEPPER SAID: Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Christians backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Christians & Christianity, the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to faith that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of bible thumping etc etc. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about. Anything less than faith in action & the birth of God's spirit living in man is the real lie. Not only because God's word says so, but because I experienced it & that spirit life of Jesus lives in me. RATHIL_THADS SAID: Okay, I just need to point out the irony of this post because this seems like exactly the type of response I would write to you talking about paganism and some of the other religions that differ from yours. In fact let me just change a few things and we will see how it works out. "Yes well I also apologize for being short. This is what happens when my more carnal side comes out. LOL Please forgive me for that. It does anger me that some just brush aside what people of faith are saying...from experience, as foolishness because they have not had that experience, it doesn't make it false, just to justify themeselves. Some have even called Pagans backwards & uneducated which is hardly the truth at all. Some of the long windedness of posters is very hard to keep up with & grammatically hard to read as well, so maybe I'm not always catching what someone is saying. When I read some of things people write about Pagans and satanists the horribleness of it requires a response because of it's deceptions. (sigh) There is so much to other faiths that people don't realize ... BUT... When we share our faith we are being accused of worshipping false gods and spreading evil. I just won't tolerate those sort of cop out excuses anymore from people who don't really know what they are talking about." First of all sharing what God says about others gods from HIS word is one thing. After that.... No one here, Christians...including myself...has EVER called pagans etc etc, uneducated or backwards for what they believe. that is a HUGE misconception that I am referring to. I can't stop you from following what you want, but I just ask people here to keep an open mind about God Jehovah & His Son Jesus. This is about as open minded as I will get in that while there is life there is hope for all men through Christ Jesus. One day you will exhaust yourselves out looking for that inner peace ... don't make it hard for yourselves by closing a door you might want to open again one day...is all I ask. God bless... Well to be fair I have never seen anyone on here call Christians backwards or uneducated, at least not in those exact words. I have however seen people who knew nothing about Christianity posting about things they don't understand, Just like I have seen Christians posting things about pagans they don't understand. I would repost those things here but last time that was brought up the threads got deleted for inappropriateness so I will avoid that for now. As for exhausting myself looking for inner peace. That I fear is not possible because I already have inner peace. There is no need for me to look farther because I have been at peace with myself for years and man is it liberating to know that. The cool thing about that inner peace is that I know that because I am at peace with myself. Any door I have ever been through is open for me to walk through any time I want too. I don't need to close off other avenues to myself in order to progress further in my life. Although at the same time I don't need to waste my time backtracking either. Well that's why I post only what I know from my own experiences in knowing God. I don't try to get into other people's beliefs but I do know that some were offended by my saying that it's wrong to believe other gods... not only paganism or devil worship or new age but that could even be money. It's not wrong to post something that gives inner peace & strength to me. There's also that aspect of having heaven here on earth....God's very own glory cloud of love & miracle working powers. It's awesome. Ah well... I just love sharing God with other people. That's all... He makes me smile & gives me joy, & peace, & everything I need. It's just awesome. That's why I felt bad on these boards...because I do prefer to share the good stuff but some just twist it into some contentious fight. I lost my patience & that interupts my God glory glow. GRRRR... LOL Ah well...I feel better now.
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I wasn't offended by Shinn's question here. I'm never offended by others' opinions on Jesus, God and religion. I'm glad people are thinking about it, to tell you the truth.
Now other people may not believe the same way I do, and I'm not offended by that, either. I can handle that. I do have my own thoughts about things and I'm glad to share them. I've been thinking along Shinn's lines a lot lately anyway. How DO we explain our faith? The Bible says we're supposed to be able to explain our faith (1 Peter 3:15 says: "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.") That said, I've been studying how to explain the Gospel, the Good News of God, to people. Basically, there's a five-fold method, very simple. It covers: 1. The fact of sin's existence and its definition (disobedience of God's laws) (Jn 3:3, James 2:10) 2. The penalty of sin (It causes our physical death and spiritual death, separation from Christ and God). (Rom 5:12, Galations 2:10) 3. God's provision for our sin (basically, that's why he sent his son here: to be a provision to cover our sins). (Rom 5:9. 1 Peter 1:4) 4. How to accept God's provision and salvation (confession of faith, etc). (Romans 10:9, John 1:11-12) and 5. Assurance of salvation. (Jn 5:24 and 1 Jn 5:13) If we can blunder our way through those five elements, we can expain the gospel to others. Now, it works better with scripture because there is great power in it. Isaiah 55:11 says "My word will not return to me void. It will accomplish what I please and it shall prosper in the thing for which I send it." But any way we share the Gospel, even clumsily, is good. God will bless our efforts. It's said that most people need to hear the Gospel message 7.6 times before they come to the Lord and personal evangelism works the best in spreading the Gospel. Now, I can explain those verses I mentioned in plain english to you. One method of sharing the gospel is to have someone read those verses and say what they mean to them. It's the Hmmmmm factor. At any rate, that's my "take" on it currently. |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Sat 06/21/08 02:27 PM
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I wasn't offended by Shinn's question here. I'm never offended by others' opinions on Jesus, God and religion. I'm glad people are thinking about it, to tell you the truth. Now other people may not believe the same way I do, and I'm not offended by that, either. I can handle that. I do have my own thoughts about things and I'm glad to share them. I've been thinking along Shinn's lines a lot lately anyway. How DO we explain our faith? The Bible says we're supposed to be able to explain our faith (1 Peter 3:15 says: "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.") That said, I've been studying how to explain the Gospel, the Good News of God, to people. Basically, there's a five-fold method, very simple. It covers: 1. The fact of sin's existence and its definition (disobedience of God's laws) (Jn 3:3, James 2:10) 2. The penalty of sin (It causes our physical death and spiritual death, separation from Christ and God). (Rom 5:12, Galations 2:10) 4. How to accept God's provision and salvation (confession of faith, etc). (Romans 10:9, John 1:11-12) and 5. Assurance of salvation. (Jn 5:24 and 1 Jn 5:13) If we can blunder our way through those five elements, we can expain the gospel to others. Now, it works better with scripture because there is great power in it. Isaiah 55:11 says "My word will not return to me void. It will accomplish what I please and it shall prosper in the thing for which I send it." But any way we share the Gospel, even clumsily, is good. God will bless our efforts. It's said that most people need to hear the Gospel message 7.6 times before they come to the Lord and personal evangelism works the best in spreading the Gospel. Now, I can explain those verses I mentioned in plain english to you. One method of sharing the gospel is to have someone read those verses and say what they mean to them. It's the Hmmmmm factor. At any rate, that's my "take" on it currently. tribo: hi Yasha - "scinn" not (shinn) - she's skinny but not a bone - hahaha but i'll forgive your "sin"  i was just wondering - about # 3 - 3. God's provision for our sin (basically, that's why he sent his son here: to be a provision to cover our sins). (Rom 5:9. 1 Peter 1:4) you state he was sent here to be a "covering for the beliver's "sin's" ?? My question's are: why would it be necessary for him to come and become a cover for man's sin's if god has already forgiven - "sin's" - of other's in the old testament such as noah and family,enoch, abraham,elijah,david,etc..? If god know's the faithful and righteous already - then why not continue as he had from the beginning? the old testament saints knew of gods love, god's mercifulness,forgiveness, and most of all they understood "faith" in him and obedience? - so why the necessity to become man and put himself to death in order to do no more than he had already been doing in the old testament? thnx for your response. |
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Good question. My understanding of things is often far from perfect, but I'll try to answer as best as I know how.
In the Old Testament, man was still saved by faith, but the faith was augmented by sacrifice. There were blood sacrifices involved. In Moses' time it was a passover lamb (Jesus became our passover for us). Remember, the Israelites had to put the blood of the passover Lamb on their door posts so the Angel wouldn't slay their firstborn. Later, animal sacrifice was required for the Israelites to cover their sins. It wasn't just sacrifice, but sacrifice combined with faith and obedience to God's law that got them to the right relationship with the Lord and their salvation. Now years went by. The Israelites strayed from the Lord again and again. The covenant of I will be your Lord and you will be my people just was not working. God had to come up with a better way, a more perfect way, a way which was foreshadowed again and again throughout the Old Testament. Instead of the blood of imperfect bulls and goats to cover our sins, now we had the blood of Jesus Christ. We come to Jesus by faith, admit publicly we now know he is the Son of God and God has raised him from the dead. We admit we are sinners and we need his forgiveness and his blood to cover our sins and we turn to his way of life in repentence. It is a new covenant between man and God, a new agreement. As Romans 10:9 says, God showed his love to us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. It is a great and a wonderful thing. Further, John 1:11-12 says "He came to his own and his own received him not, but as many as received him, to them gave he power to become sons of God, even to those who believed in his name." And John 5:24 gives us assurance of salvatino once we come to God in repentance and faith: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth in my word, and believes in Him who sent me hath everlasting life and will not come into condemnation but has passed from death into life." Man, what a fantastic promise! Those who know the reality of sin and the consequences can turn to the provision of God for salvation and can have assurance that they have eternal life and have passed from death to life. In my life, that gives me a great deal of joy. That is a fantastic thing, as far as I'm concerned. The greatest thing in all of life, whether it's explained with the scriptures or without. We can be very glad that God made provision for us in the Old Testament and in the New. I am awestruck by his provision for us. |
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YASHAFOX:
In the Old Testament, man was still saved by faith, but the faith was augmented by sacrifice. There were blood sacrifices involved. In Moses' time it was a passover lamb (Jesus became our passover for us). Remember, the Israelites had to put the blood of the passover Lamb on their door posts so the Angel wouldn't slay their firstborn. TRIBO: yes i understand but that was after the law was given by moses - i'm reffering to those who were saved before the law and the sacrifices because of the law. In otherword's - if god ahd the ability to save mankind before he put into affect the law's he gave moses - such as abraham or even before - then why was it necessary for him to be born as man at all? thnx. |
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Yeah. That could be a problem. Basically, the Law condemned man instead of saving them. And before the law, man didn't have rules to go by at all, for the most part. Like us, they were saved by a persoaal relationship with the Lord. Now, we have Jesus and the holy spirit to help us. Old things have passed away and all things have become new.
I don't know entirely why God sent his son, but I do know that he sent him and that I have faith in him and in what he can do and I'm glad that he sent him! Whether we have the law, no law or Jesus, God has always made provision for men to meet him by faith. He had a walk with Adam, Isaac, Abraham, Noah and all the rest of them. |
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Yeah. That could be a problem. Basically, the Law condemned man instead of saving them. And before the law, man didn't have rules to go by at all, for the most part. Like us, they were saved by a persoaal relationship with the Lord. Now, we have Jesus and the holy spirit to help us. Old things have passed away and all things have become new. I don't know entirely why God sent his son, but I do know that he sent him and that I have faith in him and in what he can do and I'm glad that he sent him! Whether we have the law, no law or Jesus, God has always made provision for men to meet him by faith. He had a walk with Adam, Isaac, Abraham, Noah and all the rest of them. tribo: thnx for your time yasha |
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YASHAFOX: In the Old Testament, man was still saved by faith, but the faith was augmented by sacrifice. There were blood sacrifices involved. In Moses' time it was a passover lamb (Jesus became our passover for us). Remember, the Israelites had to put the blood of the passover Lamb on their door posts so the Angel wouldn't slay their firstborn. TRIBO: yes i understand but that was after the law was given by moses - i'm reffering to those who were saved before the law and the sacrifices because of the law. In otherword's - if god ahd the ability to save mankind before he put into affect the law's he gave moses - such as abraham or even before - then why was it necessary for him to be born as man at all? thnx. That's an easy one.... like I say...God's word is just a book to those who haven't recieved the life of it yet. That means the law itself is powerless.... Christ came to give LIFE in the Spirit that brings those words to life & that brings a change of heart & really...a new creation...fully equipped by God...for His good purposes. I was thinking about that today in church...without God we really can't attain to heavenly living here on earth. We just can't...I can't...without God Trebo... No one can. That's really the short of it. I'm sure there are many testimonies of God's divine nature healing people & delivering people from aweful things....and that's only the beginning. then there's the relationship that needs to grow ... it's awesome. |
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QS:
That's an easy one.... like I say...God's word is just a book to those who haven't recieved the life of it yet. That means the law itself is powerless.... Christ came to give LIFE in the Spirit that brings those words to life & that brings a change of heart & really...a new creation...fully equipped by God...for His good purposes. tribo: thnx qs - so are you saying then that those before the law were not just as full of faith and salvation as those after the law? That their faith and rightteousness was less than after the law? |
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