You did not read the qualifiers for the question. Read again. The question itself assumes certain mistakes or truths I have repeated twice only for you to ignore them as always.

I read the qualifiers, I answered from the Christian perspective. You have to understand something...just becuase you believe that spirits need food and that spirits can grow more powerful by eatting doesn't mean that Christians must believe that. And when you ask a question about Christian faith or beliefs, you can't then dictate that Christians must accept your "evidence". If you disagree with me, that's cool, no skin off my nose.

I can't answer it either I don't think anyone can but I find it an interesting paradox.

so far as the second part it is very important and can be ansered. If (speaking of the narrow view of christianity that makes an enemy of the rest of the world) they label everyone else as a devil worshiper, and strength is divided by followers are they subconsciously outclassing themselves making themselves the follower of an self defeating religion by claiming by their own belief that (according to parapsychology concepts they may not even be aware of or believe) their enemy has more followers than they do (and per this strength a spirit has based on followers) ensuring the defeat of their own deity in their final battle?

Maybe this question isn't simple enough to even ask...

Most Christians don't believe that if you aren't a Christian, then you are the enemy. So you paint Christians with a broad brush while complaining of the same behavior. And how are you better than those Christians, when you do the same thing?

I said independent of the following of Christ, and once again you ignored that the qualifier is that some were mislead negating your answer all three times before you answered. In order to give a valid answer one must first understand the question.

To be honest about your answer according to the bible that is impossible since all of these questions are outside of the realm of Christian belief. If they did fall into christian belief the concepts involved with Christianity would have to seriously change.

and I AM is something people say...but that is without a name. Every intity including a higher power has a name....The Christian god per our understanding just liked it's followers to be in the dark about what that name is.

Read "The Incarnations of Immortality" series of books...they pose the same questions and are targetted at teenagers. The topic isn't that complicated and is based on mixing Christianity with non-Christain beliefs. You are making yourself clear, it's just not a theologically challenging subject. The issue only exists if you ignore many beliefs of Christians and substitute them with non-Christian and somewhat illogical beliefs.

According to Christianity, God created the universe.

If God needed worshippers to exist, how did God create the universe?

If spirits need worship to exist, what did they eat when the world was new and only Adam and Eve existed?

See...it's not a very sound line of logic.

I said narrow view as a qualifyer, you quoted it yourself so if it rules you out you why are you upset?

I always find it amusing when a non-Christian insists he knows more than Christians about Christianity.

"narrow view" isn't the same as "some view". What you typed meant that Christians are narrow minded. Maybe you didn't type what you meant, but I correctly interpreted your words. I'm not upset, I was just pointing out a bit of hypocracy.

Ok I have read them, I understand the point made and I am starting to understand where the lack of communication lies.

The question assumes that at least some christians are following a false god OTHER THAN the creator of the universe (heavens and earth) and that they have been worshiping this false god that lacks the every lasting self rejuvinating power of this being.

To answer your second question the power the spirits receive from the living helps facilitate their ability to affect the physical or Carnal world as QS put it earlier. The entire question requires that you understand something about parapsychology or are at least willing to view the question from that perspective. Debating belief or scripture is pointless, because this falls outside of the Christian realm.

There is more to religion than just Christianity.

And you still don't get it. WORSHIP DOESN'T MATTER! If every human from the foundation of earth to the end worshipped Satan, it wouldn't make any difference in the Christian perspective. Even if those people thought they were worshipping God. God doesn't need worship and ALL THINGS exist because God wills them to exist. Nothing can threaten or challenge God, God needs nothing in order to exist. You can't wound God, you can't starve God, you can't drown God, you can't burn God, how would anyone defeat God? To that, add the fact that God is necessary to the existance of all of God's creations...which is everything other than God. God cannot be defeated, God cannot be endangered, God cannot be challenged.

That's all from a Christian perspective, of course.

As I've been trying to explain, that wouldn't make any difference. None.



When you are talking God and Satan, then you are talking Christianity or Islam. Neither of which believes that any creature can become like God, even through worship. No matter how much you feed a fly, a man can still squash it with a fly swatter.

Ok but you are debating Christian theology in a non christian arena....

It's a bit like giving biblical answers to a physics question. Now, if you can follow the concepts from the perspective of parapsychology and give an intutitive answer based on the qualifiers laid out I'd be thrilled to hear your response. But you have already failed by proving you don't understand the question. The question is about a FALSE god and per your own argument you are following bible scripture which lacks any affirmation that a false god posseses the power of the creator.

False god, versus devil...false god, versus devil...nowhere in here is the creator of the universe....get it?

Didn't you post this:



So posting about what Christians believe...and then asking a question about God and the devil...and I should assume you aren't talking Christian theology? Man, seriously. If you don't want Christians adding their input, then DON'T BRING UP OUR RELGION.

If you want to respresent Christianity I am sure the rest of the christians would like it if you learn to read and comprehend. You don't sound like a Christian at all when you do this you sound like a non christian trying to make Christians look bad. In the original post I said:

"Spirits feed off energy. If for any reason the Christians were mislead and rather than following the creator are following a named or identified spirit it draws stregth from their belief which gives it it's power. I understand this is other than what the bible teaches this is spiritual philosophy having to do with independent spirits. "

Now if you can not read that statement with it's complexities you have no business answering the question. I am openly inviting people to give an honest answer but to answer they must answer the question rather than make a question up in their head, or demonstrate that they did not read all of the qualifiers. And quite frankly this goes along with the teachings of the bible and of Jesus maybe you just haven't caught on yet. A false god is a false god even if it is claiming to be the one creator. If I parade around main street dressed in a sheet calling myself the creator of the universe do you think that MAKES me creator of the universe? Of course not you know better. My point is that their is by definition what makes the creator the creator, and the entire question revolves around something else.

I am unsure why you get so angry when these things are discussed, but in reality most of what i say here although can be misunderstood goes directly along without disputing the teachings of the bible. I can be a bit of a smarty pants at times, and at other times sarcastic, but i have been trying to put these questions in ways that a scholar that understands the bible in it's entirity would find non-offensive or contraversial. Although it could make a preacher or devout christian uncomfortable to answer, the answer one way or another still falls OUTSIDE of any teachings in the bible for or against.

Blackbird,

I would like to know your reason (or agenda) for this very confusing question. You seem to be all over the place with it.


JB

Well actually it relates to worship of the church or the bible as opposed to the worship of Christ or the creator.

The theory is that even if those that worship the church believe they are worshiping the creator that they may be empowering yet another spirt. Whether this would be their own devil or a false god is unknown so I was thinking it's more likely an alternate spirit.

So by this narrow incorrect form of worship that follows christianity but is the worship of man or the word of man or concept of man rather than the true creator power, even if they were thinking they were worshiping the creator they have created a new "god" of their own. Regardless of name my point was, that if this false god had stepped in and fooled these people into worshiping man (his word, or his concept) and that if this false god was in opposition of the Devil which everyone DOES seem to be clear on, then the idea of everyone other than a christian being the enemy would put favor on the side of the Devil.

In essense I am unsure if I ever thought of this quite this way before this discussion forum, because this week is the first time it occured to me people might be worshiping a church or a book rather than an actual creator force.

I was just trying to resolve a paradox that was created in my mind, by exposure to thoughts from this board.

Your question makes no sense, that should be obvious to anyone. You claim that a spirit needs "power from the living". Okay...how did God create the physical world if he needed the phyical world to exist in order to create the physical world? It's circular logic, it makes no sense.

I'm not upset, I'm just wondering why you gave that huge run-up mentioning Christianity and Christian beliefs and then expect Christians to answer a question about their beliefs, but accepting certain assumptions which go against Christian beliefs. It's really bizzare.

It is bizzare, moreso for me than you because this week is the first time I thought of any of this to be honest. It's the first time it occured to me that there was a false god within the realm of christianity.

And so far as the spirit in question it is OTHER THAN YOUR GOD which is the creator of the universe. It is about a false god imposter. It became very clear when JB responded that the question itself is more complicated and harder to understand than I originally thought when I created the post. When I created the post I had this all firmly in my head, but explaining it is a bit more complicated and I was suprised to see you respond simply because most of your answers are bliblical in nature, and this goes more into a parapsychology view of a spirit claiming to be a god, or a false god.

Although I understand the source of confusion because my language has not been completely clear at some points if understood correctly the question goes without opposition to the bible. Regardless of how the bible defines spirits itself it contains many warnings about false gods which opens the possibility of this discussion.

One source of confusion is that I may be anti-christian, or against the following of Christ. In reality I am against conformity of the soul, or possesion of the soul, and believe that if someone wishes to follow the teachings of Christ they should do so and divorce themselves from the fear, hate, and prejudice of man. Unfortunately this isn't an easy thing for a human being to do.

The question, or the answering of the question, requires that one can accept the qualifiers, or willingly suspend their disbelief long enough to give a logical or intuitive answer to the paradox from their own point of view independent of teachings in the bible which lacks any lessons about dealing with spirits of whatever form other than gods. For the purpose of Christian teachings understanding this requires that you accept that at least some Christians may be following a false god by worshiping the church, representatives of the church, or the word of man assumed to be the word of god.

I understand it isn't an easy topic, and even understanding the nature of the question can be difficult, but it is a solid question that I am not so sure we can answer. I was curious if anyone had any thoughts though.