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| Topic: Two questions for Chrstians | |
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http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ218.html thnx MS - i find it interesting that "science" can be used to prove your point of view, but not mine - hmmm???? but then it's alway's that way with "preffered" belief's is it not? what i saw mostly was assuptions on their part also - yet with fanta - i am not allowed to assume anything unless i can point to a piece of scripture??? hmmm??? maybe you have not seen a rainbow appearing in the "mist" but i have. florida 1970 davie west of ft lauderdale. it does happen. no it was not in the "clouds" it was not rain - as is written, but remember it's just god's "tale" |
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Hi MorningSong  Read this too Tribo. Many scientist say science only deepens their belief in God! By Dr. Francis Collins Special to CNN Editor's note: Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., is the director of the Human Genome Project. His most recent book is "The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief." ROCKVILLE, Maryland (CNN) -- I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those world views. As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God's plan. I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began searching for answers. I had to admit that the science I loved so much was powerless to answer questions such as "What is the meaning of life?" "Why am I here?" "Why does mathematics work, anyway?" "If the universe had a beginning, who created it?" "Why are the physical constants in the universe so finely tuned to allow the possibility of complex life forms?" "Why do humans have a moral sense?" "What happens after we die?" (Watch Francis Collins discuss how he came to believe in God ) I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds. My earlier atheist's assertion that "I know there is no God" emerged as the least defensible. As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, "Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative." http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html  thnx startin, i'm already aware of this and other articles of the same kinds- i have read C.S. lewis' mere christianity, and other apologetic work's you forget - i once was involved heavily in the christian belief system there is little you will bring to my attention that im not at least familiar with. you also must understand i am not "agnostic" quite the contrary, i believe in a creative force that i choose to call "god" for the sake of ease of conversation and discussion. but i believe mine to be a much more less concerned god than the one described in your book. and "no" i cannot prove his existence either - hahaha - but his attribute and method's are much more appealing than your's. tribo |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Thu 06/12/08 08:29 PM
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Tribo.......God Promised a Rainbow in the CLOUD , not just in a MIST, or in a few droplets of water .
GENESIS 9 : 12-17 |
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Tribo.......God Promised a Rainbow in the CLOUD , not just in a MIST, or in a few droplets of water . GENESIS 9 : 12-17 hahaha re-read my post love - i already adressed that it does happen. no it was not in the "clouds" it was not rain - as is written, but remember it's just god's "tale" thnks for the gentle rebuke though. this is certain at least for me - i will always agree to disagree with you in as agreeable manner as i can from now on
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Edited by
wouldee
on
Thu 06/12/08 08:41 PM
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Simple please this subject line has already been abused and I am trying to get to the bottom of this. 1. Do you worship your God as you understand him from reading the Bible and consider the book a tool for the message being passed on by man, or do you consider the bible to be a divine cornerstone of Christianity. If you think it's holy in some way that is fine, but the distinction is do you hold it as a holy symbol, or an idol to worship and follow? 2. Do you believe that the bible contains the only valid passages about the teachings of Jesus, the world he lived in, and the people he loved written during his times? Ok, I'll bite.  1) to the first question, my answer will take the form of sharing something rather vague and not with the context of the moment when the Holy spirit said this to me : " Sometimes I wish that book was not there." Now, the Holy Spirit does honor the promises and the lessons contained in the collection and stands to uphold the words attributed to him, but it also puts him in a box. I am being deliberately vague. To know more about what God means by that, you will have to get the explanation from Him , not me.  2) The Holy Bible is sufficient to bring anyone to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and the redemptive power of God in the promise of the Holy Spirit to whosoever will. One has to mean it and want it, wholeheartedly. Even at the risk of being sent to cannibals in a rain forest for dinner.  no wut i meen? no reservations, no expectations, no delusions of grandeur, just plain and simply wanting all that God has to offer in Christ. The collection is called canon for that reason. It is a sufficient display of the grace of God and the gospel message. St.John chapters 14-17 should not be taken lightly, nor eclipsed by any other writing, in my opinion. It displays precisely what Jesus was conveying to us , as given to the disciples that walked with him, just what to expect from God in Christ's physical absence after the cross. Paul's teachings also hold dear and clear to this point. The Holy Spirit is not a toy. Joy unspeakable comes from the Holy Spirit in your person, like no other. peace.  
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Tribo;
You asked: tribo: hmm that's strange Fanta - this is one of the stories in geness i believe show's god to be man's creation. "It shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud;" did rainbows not exist before this? were there not clouds of rain before this? if so then light refracting off or through them would have been the same before and after the flood wouldn't you think?? or did god suspend this phenomena till afterward's? but did not your god say - all creation was finished on the 6th day? and would not the defraction of light to cause a "rainbow" as it does now, be just as it was then, at the "beginning"? or do you believe defraction came only after the flood? what to do Fanta?? or do you believe that there were always rainbows before and after but it was not until then that god decided to make it a sign? if so - then how would one know for sure what it was the sign of if it existed before the flood and after? just on the words of the bible? we know for a "fact" that water droplets, prisms and other things can produce what is decidedly a "rainbow affect - for a being to say that at that point it was to be a "sign" seem's very odd don't you think?? if the cause is the refraction of light by water droplets then it should be that both before and after the effect, meaning it should have been constant from the first creation of water / clouds?? explain it to me Fanta?? I'm not sure if Fanta actually meant to state that before this covenant, rain or rainbows did not exist - however that is not necessarily what should be interpreted by the passages of Genesis 9: 8-17. What is established here is the covenant - not the rainbow. God states that when He sees the rainbow it reminds Him (and man) of the promise. To this day we see the rainbow, and the world hasn't ended by flooding yet - so apparently God has been true to His word on this. And I certainly agree with you - the whole science of light and rainbows have been with us since the creation. |
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Just stopping in to say hi to Eljay.
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Tribo.......God Promised a Rainbow in the CLOUD , not just in a MIST, or in a few droplets of water . GENESIS 9 : 12-17 hahaha re-read my post love - i already adressed that it does happen. no it was not in the "clouds" it was not rain - as is written, but remember it's just god's "tale" thnks for the gentle rebuke though. this is certain at least for me - i will always agree to disagree with you in as agreeable manner as i can from now on Thank You Tribo. Tribo..I was going to share something more, but Eljay beat me to it. Have a Blessed Nite Now. |
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Edited by
Blackbird
on
Fri 06/13/08 03:09 AM
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Fanta You make a very large assumption there. How do you know that light refracted through water droplets before that point? Were you there before then? If god can produce the DNA of man, animal, fish, and plant matter, as well as Earth, water, wind, and fire then I suspect making light refract through water droplets would be a simple matter. Since you cant prove that he had made light refract through water droplets and form a rainbow before that point then your argument is baseless and has ZERO credence. I believe I'll chose whats behind Door #1 Tribo! (Gods Word) tribo: not an "assumption" - a "presumption" Light older than our planet as to a livable conditions and as to mankind's creation - is present throughout the universe - and we are able to see the same prismatic affect of the various band width's of those colors with colorimeter's - so -no - i was not present then - but yes i can calculate the time it takes for light (which produces this phenomena) to extropolate that distant galaxies have the same distinct colors as we have now as to defraction.god made the "heaven's" before He made man or any other life here according to your belief - that's why i state what i stated. HMMM - any other thought's fanta? Gentelmen....If I may... Among other things...I have enjoyed photography over the years. Among my archived I have some pictures of a double rainbow. I took them when I was visiting a friend, and when I arrived she was going nuts over the rainbow so I photographed it. To this day I limit my use of these pictures and they are labled in my archive as Deidre's Rainbow because to me it was hers, and she wanted the pictures rather than me. Any supreme being or benign spirit could tell a follower this is YOUR rainbow to remind you, and from this point on when you see a rainbow I want you to remember this. It is reasonable in my humble opinion to consider that a rainbow could have been created by a higher power without claim that none had ever existed before. If this claim was in the bible that there was no such thing as a rainbow before that time I missed it. Was there no such thing as rain before then perhaps? I appreciate input from both points of view because it is all very interesting. I do agree that it is unreasonable to believe that Christians own everything on earth including everything in nature and existense. I personally believe that the Christian God would call Christians trying to take everything from it's other children if indeed it was the creator theft. This is only my opinion though. I encourage all people to follow their faith at will, until they claim they are superior to all others, claim to have the right to condemn all others, or believe that the world belongs to them and only them. "The Meek shall inheret the earth" means the MEEK people, which means if you claim to own the whole thing it could well be taken from you....To teach me this as a child when I didn't want to share my crayons my father threw them away. |
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CS;
I'm back. At least until the Actors decide not to strike. |
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How'd you do that eljay?
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How'd you do that eljay? ??? |
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How'd you do that eljay? ??? The posts disappeared!
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Edited by
tribo
on
Sat 06/14/08 10:21 AM
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How'd you do that eljay? ??? The posts disappeared!
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Yeah Glen, it seems some hate monger of a blithering idiot went postal and pulled the pin. Not sure who he/she was as I was at work when it happened.
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I do read my bible its very important to me..its my instruction for life...evrything u need to know is in this book of life...Jesus was more than a great man, He is our Savior and much more...get to know Him intimately and you just may be surprised. Love my Jesus!!
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How'd you do that eljay? ??? The posts disappeared! Oh, right. Deleted by the Mods. |
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guy's :
hmmm don't you get it? it's not just the christian religion thats a sham - its "ALL" organized religions that are shams.man made farces.If man has had a hand in it it is not to be trusted. there is no organized religion i will ever accept as "the truth" there are no words in books or spoken that if man has put them forth as "ultimate truths" that are worth my or anyones time. The only "truths" that exsist are self evident, they need no defense, they need no one to believe them - they could give a crap less if anyone even cares about them - "they just are" - "natural truth's" are all i can or will believe "ever". Everything else is a spiritual and mental meatmarket of proverbial canard's. |
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guy's : hmmm don't you get it? it's not just the christian religion thats a sham - its "ALL" organized religions that are shams.man made farces.If man has had a hand in it it is not to be trusted. there is no organized religion i will ever accept as "the truth" there are no words in books or spoken that if man has put them forth as "ultimate truths" that are worth my or anyones time. The only "truths" that exsist are self evident, they need no defense, they need no one to believe them - they could give a crap less if anyone even cares about them - "they just are" - "natural truth's" are all i can or will believe "ever". Everything else is a spiritual and mental meatmarket of proverbial canard's. I definately get it, the thing is though since Christianity is "in power" as a widespread religion it is the only one that has members attacking my religious or spiritual beliefs, or my right to choose my own spiritual path without being psychologically bludgeoned with threats of hell. I also believe it is the only faith that has taken so many terms and twisted them to it's view such as in the Christian holidays thread. |
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