I guess to mother earth we can be a pain in the neck and ass too.LOL

the best way to find out any thing about the bible aside from reading it
is to watch jack van impe i don't know anyone more qualifyed than him he
has 18 doctrate degrees in the bible and has memorized the entire bible
i'm not a 100% on the memorizing thing but i am 99% sure that is
accurate

I wouldn't mind posting my thoughts, but I think I would offend too many
fine people here that I respect. So let's just say I have an
alternative view on the Bible - an I have read it cover to cover as a
born-again Christian (which I am no longer).

hey rider, we would love to hear what u have to say, as i said in the
first post on this topic it is a touchy subject, but, u still have the
right to say what u think no matter what others might say, besides, it's
just a discussion not an arguement. i'd like to see what others really
think about it and what it means to them. id like to know their view
points on certain matters that are said within the bible. think more of
this as theology. all questions, thoughts and opinions are welcomed.

Alrighty then, I'll step up. All the books written about any faith are
very old. The end of the world is not unique to the Bible. In every
case these books were created in a time very different from our own.
Since I don't know a great deal about the Jewish book, or the Muslim
book, I'll stay on the topic of the Bible. These people had no science,
or very little science to explain things they didn't understand. Some
things which were unexplained in these times are easily understood
today. Prior to the existance of rules being handed down by God (like
the Commandments for example) society was easily brought into chaos, and
all someone had to say was, "so what if you think I shouldn't sleep with
my buddies wife, who are you to tell me what to do" - the equivlant of
why we say "be good, or Santa won't bring you presents". So in essense,
be good, or you won't meet God in during the judgement.

Bringing it to Christ's time we get an update in this attitude. Maybe
it was too harsh in the old testament and there was a shortage of actual
"fire and brimstone" miricals to prove that God was serious. Jesus said
"hey, ask for forgiveness, and admit your sin, and you can join me
later". A kidner gentler God to be sure. Same problem existed in the
world - you needed to get less civilized man to have a reason to behave
besides some other guy said so.

Thus we have the reason for colorful stories and exagerated text. It
has to be obvious to most people that the stories are lessons and not to
be taken literally. For some people this is offensive to say - they say
the stories are exactly true, and this serves to hurt bringing in some
other people who might apreciate the over-all message. After-all, who
could knock the message that Jesus passed out? He taught respect and
love when he was among us. Notice how I say that - I truely believe he
was here, and the Gospel is clearly in my mind close to what really
happened.

Christ himself was a colorful story teller. He give analogies and
stories which are not about real people sometimes to illustrate a point
- and very well sometimes. If he wasn't the saiviour, or supernatural,
he clearly was a prophet, or one of the best humans to walk this earth.
I respect Jesus, in case you can't tell.

Following the Gospel are several other books in the Bible. All of the
writing in the New Testament were written 200 some years after Christ
died - even the Gospel. So we are expected to think that devine
intervention allowed these men to flawlessly copy the stories. To help
validate this problem we have several books in the Bible (in the Gospel)
which coraborate each other. Different points of view telling the same
story, but also having some different unrelated stories. Make it seem
more proofy, even though it requires faith to think it is actual proof.

Most of the books after the Gospel were written based on letter from one
Christian to another and so forth. Revelations is another example of
this method of documenting the unexplained. Man does not like the
unexplained - and in this time (yes even in the advanced years of
Revelations being penned) we still had little science. We did not know
about the planets or stars. The earth was not round yet to man. An
earthquake was not understood. People who lived near a volcanoe still
had issues with not worshiping a fire God because they did not know
about the magma under the earth, and shifting plates of the earth.

Man's need to explain everything and not being able to is part of the
reason for Faith based books. Man's need to become civilized and not
simply savages required Faith based books. And man still does not
understand the idea of time being endless - it is impossible to get your
brain around infinity - boundless universe - endless time. Accorndingly
man has embraced the "end of the world". It explains something that
otherwise we can't fully understand.

Wow - I hope that didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I fully respect anyone
elses personal Faith, and I am a spiritual man and have my own Faith,
but it is not based on old books. I do think there is great value in
these lessons, and anyone who has not read the Bible would do well to
study this text.

i happen to agree with you on your points ys rider and i do know other
people who have the same beliefs. i am a spiritual person and i believe
but i don't consider myself to be a christian. i like what you had to
say about there need for an explanation. alot of what they used as proof
of a miracle has now been explained through science,the rivers flowing
red; bacteria buildup in the waterways creating an explosion of red
algae. there are many things like this through the course of the bible.
people get upset when i bring these things up because they think that i
am trying to deter their beliefs but it is just the opposite. i do
believe but just because i don't believe that what they called miracles
was actually a miracle they want to think that i am saying none of it
happened. i believe in evolution along with GODS will but i don't
believe that the world was created through the big bang theory.

Awesome - big bang is a theory. That is a starting point for science,
and you can believe a theory, but it is not different than believe the
Bible. Theories also require faith in things which cannot be proven.
Once again we are at man trying to explain what he cannot. No one was
around for creation, so we have several theories around. To many Adam
and Eve are as plausible as everything starting from nothing and
expanding out. Amen. ;)

I had coolest Science Teacher in College, and he put like this. There
is too much proof to support evolution; however there is no reason that
evolution and Christian beliefs could not coincide. Perhaps evolution
was the means that God used in creating all living things and that we
have no way of truly knowing what "seven days" actually stood for as a
measurement of time. That's what I've come to embrace as true.

J

PERSONALLY I BELEIVE IN GOD
I BELEIVE IN JESUS
AND I BELEIVE IN MARY BUT....
THE BIBLE WAS NOT WRITTEN BY THEM
SO HOW DO WE KNOW ALOT OF WHATS IN THERE IS TRUE?
I KNOW THERE IS A HIGHER POWER
I KNOW THERE IS A HELL
THE END WILL COME WHEN GOD CHOOSES TO DO SO
I DO NOT BELEIVE IN 'SIGNS'
WE ARE ALL PUT ON THIS EARTH FOR A REASON
WHEN WE FUFILL THAT REASON
OUR TIME WILL COME
I DO NOT HAVE MUCH FAITH IN RELEGION
AFTER ALL,FOR SO MANY RELEGIONS OUT THERE
IS ONLY ONE RIGHT?? REALY??
THE ONLY RELIGON IVE EVER BEEN CLOSE TO REALY BELEIVING IN
IS NATIVE AMERICAN
THEY SPEAK OF 'THE PALE PROFIT'
WHICH IS JESUS
EVERY LIVING THING HAS A SOUL
EVEN A SMALL BUG OR A TREE
AND YOU MUST RESPECT ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE
AND DO RIGHT BY OTHERS
IVE SEEN THINGS HAPPEN IN CEREMONIES
I CANT EXPLAIN
AND IF YOU LISTEN RIGHT
THERE ARE MESSAGES ALL AROUND YOU
YOU JUST HAFTO HAVE THE PATIENCE TO HEAR THEM

Man's need to explain everything and not being able to is part of the
reason for Faith based books. Man's need to become civilized and not
simply savages required Faith based books. And man still does not
understand the idea of time being endless - it is impossible to get your
brain around infinity - boundless universe - endless time. Accorndingly
man has embraced the "end of the world". It explains something that
otherwise we can't fully understand.

First off. I would like to thank Rider and everyone else for the most
insightful comments.

I think you Rider have come full circle in your beliefs as far as
putting the bible in it's place as a reference of the Golden Rules,
because after all it is a very old book. I think of it as a
philosophical text and not literal stories too. I might prefer other
texts of philosophy myself but the bible to me is just that and nothing
more. If you whip you ass with it if you so choose to do so then, yes
that is kind of a lack of respect for something others hold dear. But I
certainly don't believe you will go to hell for it as others might
think. I have made several references to my actual belief here and got
some very interesting responses. I refer to my post about the Fractal
mathematics as being the thump print of God. Not suggesting that a
computer dazzling array of psychedelic images are God, but it is an
example of that age old definition that God is in everything that you
see. Unfortunately I don't share the belief that there is some plan by
this God other then to keep life going on it's course and if you can't
hack it then you will become extinct.I know that sounds cruel, but
haven't you heard the phrase: Life is not fair or life is cruel. That to
me is why the most dinosaurs died off while others continue. Adaptation
is a key element in survival. I find that also true in the work place as
well. If you can't handle the job the way the boss expects, then your
out on your ass. Period. So where is this all so merciful creator in all
this? he's or rather it's( I sometimes hate to use the word he, God
transcends gender.) right there. We are preprogrammed with the instincts
for survival. Most of what people do or achieve are based on your
abilities. And yes we need each other too, that's most important of all.
A child couldn't survive too long without the help of their parents or
if no parents then at least another adult. As far as a devil in the
equation, I don't believe in a kind of deity or evil deity that is set
out to destroy mankind( the pervertible Star wars philosophy of a dark
force.) The men who drove those plains into the towers believed they
were doing the right thing or they felt justified in doing this. That's
what drove them to comit such an act. Not some evil creature of fantasy
but a strong belief and conviction that they are justified as a
retaliation for the West support for Israel and the history of the
west's colonial occupation of those areas. Are they right in there
revenge? That's up to you to decide. But as the old proverb goes:
Revenge is a double edge sword. Or I think as the bible says: Those who
live by the sword, shall die by the sword. Essentially with any action,
there is an opposite and equal reaction. as Rider stated we need to have
a reason for all this chaos. So we conjured up this fantasy of a god
that is like us but much more ominous much like the ancient Romans and
Greeks who had Human like gods that even did evil like things and gods
who searched for wisdom and knowledge. I don't think we are that much
far from that today. We are still creating our own version of God and
personally, I don't think it matters.Another one of my posts that pretty
much states this human need for some entity is the Flying Spaghetti
Monster. Just a parody of mondernday religion, but it shows the
absurdity of it all.

Ghostrecon

King,

If you have a different belief in something other than theirs, they take
it as you are mocking or just disagreeing with them. That is no more
then another example of narrow mindedness. Instead of just trying to
understand what you are trying to convey, they see it as an attack or
that Satan is working though you. So you see how such fantasies can
distort reality.

Ghostrecon

In the beginning when the earth was void and without form, think about
a drop of water floating in space. Void means it had not life on it.
Without form as it being a ball of molten magma it would be without form
as liquids have no form in a weightless inviroment.

I believe in something called pre Adam existance. Because man kind and
animals were made twice. There are a couple other issues going along
this line of thinking.

Time has no meaning to a being that lives eternally. A year is as a
thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to God. My believe is in
intelligent design. In other words there is a supreme being that made
this world yet evolution was set in motion by him as well to help keep
this world working. Man kind is posioning the water ways and fish are
adapting and living in this polluted water, as an example of why we
needed evolution.

This is a more touchy, undocumented idea of mine. God was not alone
when he made man. Some say it was the angels that he had made to serve
him that were with him and according to my believe in pre Adam existence
they would have been there. BUT God said let us make man in our image.
The angels were not made in God's image so I believe God has a
family/population of like beings.

Hope this let you in on some of my believes.

I seem to remember that Adam had a secound wife before Eve. I can't
remember her name right now.

I found the story of Adams second or maybe first wife.

Preserved in the Midrash, and the mediaeval Alphabet of Ben Sira, this
rabbinic tradition held that the first woman refused to take the
submissive position to Adam in sex, and eventually fled from him,
consequently leaving him lonely. This first woman was identified in the
Midrash as Lilith, a figure elsewhere described as a night demon.

The word liyliyth can also mean "screech owl", as it is translated in
the King James Version of Isaiah 34:14, although some scholars take this
to be a reference to the same demonic entity as mentioned in the Talmud.

I'm sure in modern times she would have been referd to as a bitch. LOL

now that's funny Ghost lol...Kinf pressed on something in an earlier
post about the rivers turning red...other exapmles that science has
uncovered is the Red Sea...when Moses parted the waters to lead his ppl
from Egypt..Science has proven that that waters "part" regularily,
because the sea is so shallow and the landscape so flat..a good wind
from the right direction will actually push the waters back...Same with
Joshua and the battle of Jericho..When his army blew their trumpets the
walls of the city came crashing down...Science has shown that there was
an earthquake at this site around that time...the question then
becomes..was the actual event a miracle, or was the timing of that event
the true miracle..Either way, someone must have had some divine
fore-knowledge to be prepared in time to make it look like God was on
their side.
One of the Old Testament stories that even some Christians don't
believe, Jonah and the Whale, could very well be true. I mean if God was
able to create not only this world but a vast universe why couldn't he
have some guy survive 3 days in the belly of a whale?..Even the story of
Noah and the flood is backed up in the Coran(Koran?), thru the story of
Gilgamesh..same flood, different name. Even the aborigines of Australia
have a flood story.
And as far as what some ppl call evolution, it's nothing more than
adaptation..I seriously doubt that a million years ago, some monkeys got
tired of hanging around in trees and decided to live in cold, dank caves
and eventually became homo sapiens.
To me, that takes a greater leap of faith than the belief that God
created us specifically

Well, they say the flood could have been caused by Glacier melting and
that the flood was only local since they didn't wonder to far from the
region.

So who knows.

couldn't have been too local if the Austalian Aborgines have their own
flood story lolol

Well, maybe it was a tsunami down under.LOL

lmaooooooooooo

An excerpt from the Yahoo Q&A section.

The question:

Do you believe in noah's ark and the flood.?
If not, why?

Answers:


Thompson J:

I do Believe


grumm_dmo:

yes


G:

yes


whynotask:

Yep!


earmour:

yes, Faith

Esther:

Yes, I believe all the bible.

If GOD B4ME:

Yes, there is evidence in archeology but most of all I believe it
because it is in the bible.

Source(s):

bible



Curiosity killed the cat:

when i can see a piece of the ark which everyone claims exists, then i
will believe it.


lnfrared Loaf:

how could you believe that?
they should have polar bears and penguins and seals and scorpions, and
snakes too. how about termites and others?

man from utopia:

This is one of the most stupid bible myths. I am embarrassed for people
that believe this.

1. Sea water and fresh water would kill most animals from osmotic
pressure. They would either explode or implode.

3. Noah gathered over 800,000 species of insects?

4. Did he go to Australia and get marsupials

5. This story was bastardized from the Epic of Gilgamesh.

J.P.:

No. There is nothing in the geological record to support the world-wide
flood theory.

Since the flood would have had to happen in the last six thousand years
(young earth hypothesis & flood go hand in hand), the lack of data
showing a flood is effectively proof that it didn't happen.

nur ilanah:

yup!!

onelm0:

Yes.


eduarodi:

I don't believe in ANYTHING about the Bible. Why? Because I don't have
any proof it's anything else than just literature? Do you believe that
Harry Potter was real?

Coffeeclu:

nope. no evidences, just one sided bible story


zatcsuAbout:

For it to have happened there would have to be numerous obstacles of
science.

Where did Noah put the whales?

For the Earth to be completely immersed in Water the oceans would have
to rise 24,000 feet. The amount of water that would have to fall in 40
days and night would fall at a rate similar to that of a water saw. It
would have cut trees, people, and mountains down.

Rain is fresh water. Salt water fish can not live in fresh water and
vise verse. Furthermore salt water has a higher density than fresh
water, large whales would have had trouble coming up for air.

Fish need plants for food. The bible says the waters did not rescind for
a full year. Plants generate food through photo synthesis. Sunlight can
only penetrate about 2,000 feet of water. All ocean plant life would
have died not having sunlight for a year.

The animals were on the boat for a year. What did they eat? Meet spoils
in about a week, and even with salting process the only last a couple of
months. Noah would have had to install refrigerators to keep the food
fresh.

EDIT: Additional info

The rate that the over 1 million species would have had to board the arc
2 by 2 is physically impossible in the allotted time frame.

Physical impasses such as ocean separating Australia at a distance to
great for some animals to swim across.

As for fossils. This is explained quite toughly in Geology by the
process of plate tectonics. Everest used to be under water, millions of
years ago, then when the Indian plate met the Asia plate the crust was
thrust upward. This is why only certain fossil are found there while
modern animals aren’t.

As to claims that pieces of the arc have been found. It is suspicious
that of all the supposed discoveries no scientists are allowed to
examine the evidence, no people are allowed to go near the sites where
it has supposedly been discovered, and no one has brought back a piece
of the arc that can be carbon dated.

ADDITIONAL EDIT:
The size of the ark is also suspect. The size of the ark would not fit
the amount of bio mass needed to house each of the animals plus the food
necessary to sustain them.

The size if 1 cubit = 3 feet, which is the general conversion given,
would be revolutionary for its time. Thousands of years later when ships
were finally built to be that size they had to be held together by IRON.
No ship has ever been recorded to be built to that size without IRON to
support its size. Since Noah would have lived during the bronze age and
the technique was not invented for thousands of years the size of the
supposed ark

Lisa Gail S:

yes. I believe all the Hebrew Bible. Besides, all cultures have a flood
myth past down through oral tradition.Some archaeologists think they
have found the ark.

the bible doesn't say that they were on the ark for a year. It only
rained 40 days and 40 night .therefore, sea creatures could have
survived that long in the ocean.

Baby animals require less space. Two dogs etc went into the ark rather
than 2 labs, 2 collies etc

Most likely the animals ate grains and such.

the lack of data does not disprove the ark. In statistics, one can prove
that something does exists, but one can't prove that it doesn't.

zeivinato:

i believe! by the way, the ark HAS been found and documented by a hong
kong evangelism media group. i've seen the documentary itself. the sites
below if anyone wants to see it. I got it translated by babelfish on
altavista.

Message me if u find this fascinating! :)

Source(s):

Translated site http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish...

Translated by BabelFish - babelfish.altavista.com


peace, man:

I'm a christian so I say yes to it. Also there are scientific evidences
in fossil & rock formation of a great flood but so far it may not be
entirely global.


psicatt:

no, there is no convincing evidence, geological record does not
correspond, evidence presented in favour in to date has been shaky and
evidence that is contrary is merely discounted.


s98310:

What I find almost as fascinating, however, is the number of cultures
who have a similar story, also w/ 8 people, surviving a mighty, world
encompassing flood.

gracefull:

Yes, I do believe it!

Captain Jack:


Contrary to some of the answrs you received, there is much evidence
that the flood actually happened. The most supportive of scientific
answers is that fossils of sea creatures have been found on some of the
highest mountain peaks like Mt Everest which means the mountains
themselves must have been submerged. Also, because the flood would have
drastically changed the Earths climates, zoologists have found Remains
of mammoths and rhinoceroses found in different parts of the earth. Some
of these were found in Siberian cliffs; others were preserved in
Siberian and Alaskan ice. In fact, some were found with food undigested
in their stomachs or still unchewed in their teeth, indicating that they
died suddenly. Even though there are numerous other facts, the most
substantial would be, as Christians, if we accept Jesus as God's son,
then we must accept his word when he likens this system of things to the
days of Noah. He says in Mt 24:3 Jesus said, among other things: “For
just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will
be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and
drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day
that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood
came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will
be.”


Mourits de Beer:

Hell no! Is there any chance that noah could have put every single
animal onto a boat (well 2 of each animal), the animals wouldnt have
invitingly climbed onto the boat, such as elephants as it claimed, and
the lions all that stuff.


ironchain:

I do believe that this happened and I am glad I did not have to go
through it.

Michael:

Yes, however, I believe that the Prophet Noah (pbuh) built a boat to
carry his family and all of his livestock (now misinterpreted as every
animal in the world) and saved them from a river flood that God warned
him of.
The Biblical version is a bit far-fetched.