You speak of facts, I speak of the beginning of the self.

Self exists because Nothing cannot exist.

You identify with the body. The body is not the self.

The body is just the thing that houses the self.

JB

To each his own...

Absolutely!

And if the Bible had stopped right there it would have been a great book.

Without brain function, thoughts do not exist James.

Thoughts are a product of our central nervous system.

Whether or not there is another form taken after this form ceases to exist... who knows?

Energy has no perceptual faculty.

Thoughts are vibrations.
That is all they are.

Everything is vibration.

The first thought was simply a vibration.

Vibrations are energy and information.
Energy and information are vibrations.

smiles - i cant argue with that - vibrations rule

Creative Soul........

Thoughts
Perception
Awareness
Feelings
Ideas
Will
Emotions
Affections

All make up the Soulish Area of man

After a man dies, his Physical Body(or house his soul and spirti live in) returns to the ground....whie his soul and spirit still live on...somewhere....

Point is...awareness is part of the soul..so awareness is there, even after the body is dead.

There have been numerous stories told,of people who died and then came back to life....and during that time, they were very much aware of what was going on about them in the room ,where their dead bodies lay...while their soul hovered above their own dead bodies.

They saw everything.

So now..here is another question for you, Creative Soul.

IF seeing is limited only to the physical 5 senses, how then did these souls see?

Morningsong,

Nevermind. I think he's become an atheist. Or else he's been going to college.

Jeannie

I'm not sure I can agree with this. I certainly can't prove it one way or the other. If I could then I'd have the answer everyone is seeking.

However, I can tell you this. You are not your thought.

I have meditated deeply enough to have experienced being 'detached' from the river of thought.

In fact, that's the whole goal of transcendental meditation. Or at least a first stage to reach.

Once detached from the river of thought you can clearly see that thoughts are not yours. They are completely independent of you. You CHOOSE thoughts from the river of thought. And you can choose not to think about any of them.

You might think to yourself, "By just the recognition of being next to a river of thought is a THOUGHT!"

NO! It definitely ISN'T!

It's an experience.

However, it can be a thought that is to say that you can think about it, You can say to yourself, "Hey! I'm outside of the river of thought!". That's a THOUGHT! But if you think that thought you plunge right back into the river of thought and you won't be outside of it anymore.

The ONLY WAY to get outside of the river of thought it to NOT THINK about it! You can experience it. You can be aware of it. But as soon as you THINK about it, you're no longer outside of the river. You'd in it.

Clearly you have never experienced this. It is possible to experience. You have to learn to meditate until you can experience. Some people can achieve that state of mind and some people can't. Some people require much meditation and practice to even be able to stop thinking. Other people can do it so effortlessly they basically live their lives detached from the river of thought. They don't think about things. They simply react to them.

You are so immersed in the river of thought you can't even see the shore. You're convinced that thought is all that exists. But you can experience total detachment from thought. And when you do you'll realize that awareness is not dependent on the ability to think.

I experienced this myself back in the 70's. I meditated for about 3 years. I was able to detach myself from the river of thought. After that I very briefly experienced the while light. But only twice, very briefly. Enough to know what it's like, but not enough to master that state of mind.

Every time I experience the while light I would immediately THINK to myself, "Hey! It's the white light!". And that very thought would pull me out of that state of mind. You can't THINK and be in the state of white light simultaneously. At least not analytically. You can't be thinking "Hey I'm experiencing this!"

As soon as you think it, you are no longer in that state of mind and you are no longer experiencing it.

Only when you learn to experience it without THINKING, "Hey I'm experiencing this!", can you truly master a thoughtless state of being.

You CAN experience without thinking. It is possible. I've experienced experiences without thinking about the fact that I was experiencing them. And I also saw the devastating affects that thinking about them can have.

In truth, THOUGHT is what kills you, it's not what gives you life. At least from a spiritual point of view anyway.

Cool! I got the white light once myself while doing deep breathing exercises. I was totally focused on my breathing. When I saw the light, I became distracted and looked to see what it was and thought about it. That is when it disappeared.

But that experience changed my life from that day on I was a different person. I think that deep focused breathing and relaxation techniques for the sake of breathing and relaxing is a good way to get out of the river of thought.

I think I'll start doing that again. All this thinking is hurting my brain...

The brain only processes thoughts. It does not think thoughts.

It is like your computer. Your computer only processes, it does not think.

People talk about computers having memory. They really don't have any memory. They only store information. They only run programs. They do not think.

The brain is not the thinker of thoughts. The person is the thinking center. The person is the self. The brain processes information.

If a person is "brain dead" and yet still being kept alive by machines the person is not operating through the body even though technically the body parts are still operating. They are operating on programing.

If you were to pull the plug and the body still remained alive, as in a comma, the person is still not operating through the body. The person may still be attached to the body, but operating in some alternate reality or dream state.

When the person detaches from the body, the silver cord is severed and the body dies.

Jeannie

Abra,

exactly how many times can something be explained before ones tires of doing so. I know that least a dozen times I have explained all this.....Now if your going to close your heart, mind and soul to others.....then my friend I think you are going to be in a constant spin cycle.

Understand that GOD does nothing without knowing exactly the outcome....And in each case it is man that is at fault not God. You should be on your knees thanking the Lord above that he chose to come to earth as a man to die for our sins.....Now if you don't want to believe any of it....fine but then stop stating the same stuff over and over again.

Again with satan again.....the same answer and no matter how many times you ask the question, it's always going to be the same answer.....satan thought he was better then God....oh big big mistake....he is not on earth reeking havoc on all mankind.......And again if you don't believe it...then stop speaking of it.


God is perfect and the stories as you call them, show not only the downfall of man, the way God intends us to be, but also how we should live our lives.......And again if you have wax in your ear, and are blind to see......well that my friend is your gig....you need to stop with the samo-samo demonstrations of what you don't know.....

And Abra just because it doesn't prove true to you...with God, Jesus, the Bible....does not make you right......you can write over and over what you believe or don't believe but it just doesn't make it so.

We could say the same to all of the Christians. Really, Feral, we have heard it all over and over and over.



Again, we can say the very same thing to you. You can write or say what you believe over and over and over, but it just doesn't make it true.

Other people, Feral, have just as much of a right to repeat their beliefs and the reasons for them as anyone else.

It seems like you would like people who do not agree with your truth to shut up.

That is what it seems like. "...fine but then stop stating the same stuff over and over again. " This is what you wrote.

(But we were actually having a conversation about spiritual ideas here in these last few posts. They were not even about your religion as you see it.)

Jeannie

Why? If you read the story is it the very same God who's wrath we are being saved from.

This would be like a man taking you captive and tying you up in a barn and then setting it on fire. Just when you think you're going to be burned up the very same man comes in and cut you free and 'saves' you.

Are you supposed to now worship that man for having saved you from a peril that he himself created and shoved you into?

It makes absolutely no sense for a God to place me at the peril of his wrath and then come and have himself nailed to a pole to save me from the siustion that he created in the first place.



Like, Jeannie pointed out. When you stop repeating your crap over and over again, then maybe I'll think about stopping too.

Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!

I think I've already heard that like a billion times before Feral.

Moreover I already DID IT!

It's up to Jesus to keep his end of the bargain now. I welcomed him into my life almost a half-a-century ago. They door has always been open and still is open. He's more than welcome to walk in anytime he so desires.

I'm not going to nail him to the Cross. I refuse to nail him to the cross. If that's what is required to be 'saved' then I reject that notion.

I've already stated Feral. If the biblical God is giving me a choice between being his servant for all eternity or death. Then I chose death.

That's my free will choice. I've read the fine print in book he supposedly wrote (or inspired). I understand his TERMS. And I'm not interested. It's as simple as that Feral. If the biblical God is true then I decline to play his game and I accept death over eternal life.

I read the rules of the game and I'm not interested in playing it. No sale!

The biblical God appears to be a very confused and sick puppy (according to his book). So my choice, is to simply say "No Thank You". I'm not interested in playing those stupid games. I accept the offer of death over the offer of eternal life. That's my choice.

I already offered to serve him once. He should have taken me up on it when he had the chance. I'm no longer that naïve. Today I would choose death. I know more about the rules of the game now and I'm just not interested in playing anymore.

You see Feral, though I walk through the valley of death I fear no evil because I'm not afraid of death. I don't need to live forever. It just isn't important to me.

God's original 613 Commandments

These are #139 -161

Not to have sexual relations with your mother Lev. 18:7
Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife Lev. 18:8
Not to have sexual relations with your sister Lev. 18:9
Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife's daughter Lev. 18:11
Not to have sexual relations with your son's daughter Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with your daughter Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with your daughter's daughter Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her son's daughter Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with your father's sister Lev. 18:12
Not to have sexual relations with your mother's sister Lev. 18:13
Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother's wife Lev. 18:14
Not to have sexual relations with your son's wife Lev. 18:15
Not to have sexual relations with your brother's wife Lev. 18:16
Not to have sexual relations with your wife's sister Lev. 18:18
A man must not have sexual relations with an animal Lev. 18:23
A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal Lev. 18:23
Not to have homosexual sexual relations Lev. 18:22
Not to have homosexual sexual relations with your father Lev. 18:7
Not to have homosexual sexual relations with your father's brother Lev. 18:14
Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife Lev. 18:20
Not to have sexual relations with a menstrually impure woman Lev. 18:19

Very true JB....except I don't repeat unless the same thing is asked.....which it is alot....And the answer for me at least is always going to be the same....as it will be imo for most Christians.....You only get the answer over and over because the same questions are asked over and over...and if you are asking the same thing over and over why bother.

And again JB right on.......so we can safely say we agree to disagree......so again why do you bother. don't agree with me it's fine...but then stop asking or repeating the same thing....move on.....You don't have a discussion because you don't care about the other side of the equation....so there is no discussion.....it's your side vs our side...and I see it going no where.


I am totally ok with you believing as you wish and you know this.....what annoys me is why then do you slander what we believe and call it a myth....If it is not a myth now....don't you think that will always be the case.

Really.

Was all of that really necessary? Why couldn't they just say: Only have sex with your wife and no one else. Were (are) people really so brain dead that they can't figure these things out for themselves? Are people so stupid that they have to have these kinds of things spelled out for them in an endless list of rules?

Do you think that people of today still need these rules spelled out for them?

Jeannie

I call it a myth because it is not a proven fact. It fits the criteria of a myth. It does not constitute "slander" to refer to it as a myth. For me, it is a fact that it is a myth.

You don't have to agree or believe that.

When we "repeat" our views it is usually to different people about different topics at different times. Anyone is free to scroll over it and not read or respond to it if they want. I do that a lot with posts I find no need to waste my time responding to.

Most of it is simply self dialog. I learn a lot by expressing my point of view and exploring other points of view.

Don't waste your time reading it. Nobody is forcing you to read it or respond to it. Ignore it. If I think the Biblical story is a myth that is just what I think. If I state that it is a myth I have a right to state that.

It should not bother you if you believe otherwise. It would only bother you if you are thinking It might be correct or if you are worried that someone else might believe me and not you in what you think is true. That of course is their choice to believe what or who ever they chose. If your beliefs are solid, then it should not effect you what I believe. It does not effect me what you believe.

I guess the reason I speak about my beliefs as if they are facts is because I believe them, and you do the same thing. So that is just the way it is.

Love,

Why? If you read the story is it the very same God who's wrath we are being saved from.

Debbie says.....the above makes no sense to me at all. God only has wrath for those that don't listen......so is this for you?

This would be like a man taking you captive and tying you up in a barn and then setting it on fire. Just when you think you're going to be burned up the very same man comes in and cut you free and 'saves' you.

Are you supposed to now worship that man for having saved you from a peril that he himself created and shoved you into?

Debbie says:

You are kidding right......you just don't get it.....and never will........You can not nor should you ever compare a mortal man and that situation to God.....


It makes absolutely no sense for a God to place me at the peril of his wrath and then come and have himself nailed to a pole to save me from the siustion that he created in the first place.

Debbie says: God nor Jesus created any situations. Man and satan....yes God no.

I only repeat my crap answering yours. Honestly how many times can we repeat ourselves.....I can agree that we will always disagree can you?


Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!
Come to Jesus and be saved!

I think I've already heard that like a billion times before Feral.

Have I ever once said that to you abra......you can believe whatever you want......how many times have I said that...at least a million.....


Moreover I already DID IT!

It's up to Jesus to keep his end of the bargain now. I welcomed him into my life almost a half-a-century ago. They door has always been open and still is open. He's more than welcome to walk in anytime he so desires.

Debbie says: See abra big difference with welcoming him into your life and then shunting Him because it didn't go your way. But it won't ever.....unless your love is unconditional and yours has always had conditions....I believe what I believe because of His works in my life. We have had two miracles and many people come to Jesus through JSH. That is why I am here........I am not here to argue or fight for you believing in Christ....thats you choice.


I'm not going to nail him to the Cross. I refuse to nail him to the cross. If that's what is required to be 'saved' then I reject that notion.

Debbie says: See thats the whole point abra....You personally don't have any say in it....it was God's choice to send Jesus to earth to live as a man and die on the cross for us. It had nothing to do with you....as you clearly do not see or have this in your heart.....again your choice...but trust me love you don't have that kind of power no matter what you think.

I've already stated Feral. If the biblical God is giving me a choice between being his servant for all eternity or death. Then I chose death.

Debbie says:

Again you have it all backwards abra. Jesus is our servant....he died so that we may have salvation. Again you don't have that kind of power.

That's my free will choice. I've read the fine print in book he supposedly wrote (or inspired). I understand his TERMS. And I'm not interested. It's as simple as that Feral. If the biblical God is true then I decline to play his game and I accept death over eternal life.

I read the rules of the game and I'm not interested in playing it. No sale!

Debbie says: Your choice...as well as your consequences...

The biblical God appears to be a very confused and sick puppy (according to his book). So my choice, is to simply say "No Thank You". I'm not interested in playing those stupid games. I accept the offer of death over the offer of eternal life. That's my choice.

I already offered to serve him once. He should have taken me up on it when he had the chance. I'm no longer that naïve. Today I would choose death. I know more about the rules of the game now and I'm just not interested in playing anymore.

Debbie says: so whaa whaaa it didn't go your way so rebel and hate God........You don't even know what plan he had for what you thought was wrong doing all unto you.....How very sad is that to me. I fear no evil, I do not fear death and my greatest pleasure will to be able to see God one day and to walk along side Jesus and speak of His Father. Also understand abra I don't have one lil problem with you believing as you wish. But I have seen and I do know....and I would never deny him and I would even give my life if was asked of me......

To know there is a God Ex. 20:2
Not to entertain thoughts of other gods besides Him Ex. 20:3
To know that He is One Deut. 6:4
To love Him Deut. 6:5
To fear Him Deut. 10:20
To sanctify His Name Lev. 22:32
Not to profane His Name Lev. 22:32
Not to destroy objects associated with His Name Deut. 12:4
To listen to the prophet speaking in His Name Deut. 18:15
Not to test the prophet unduly Deut. 6:16

Really.

Was all of that really necessary? Why couldn't they just say: Only have sex with your wife and no one else. Were (are) people really so brain dead that they can't figure these things out for themselves? Are people so stupid that they have to have these kinds of things spelled out for them in an endless list of rules?

Do you think that people of today still need these rules spelled out for them?

Jeannie

I don't think it's a matter of people not knowing...I think its more a matter of people justifying their wrong actions. And for me no......I know them and try my best to live by them.....(always failing) but yes because like when someone says.....It's ok to be gay or lesbian......you can justify and make your own rules but in the end it is what it is a sin......like I said love the sinner hate the sin.