what about the sound of a child laughing, because he just broke another childs nose in a fight? What about the sound of a child laughing cause he (or she) knows they can do anything they want with no worries about punishment or consequences?

Those kids are satill laughing, and they are laughing in genuine pleasure. Would you still c onsider that pleasant as well?

read my other post in here about the human race being animals by nature. The go back to school and take some science classes based on animals and their actions/reactions. Aslo go to your library and check out a good book called lord of the flies. This is an excellent book for all parents to read, and for all those who try and prevent a parent from disciplining their child when needed.

The book describes how a group of castaway children, just old enough to understand what they neeed to do to survive (10 to 14 I think was the age range), group together and literaly revert to savages. And yes I say savages cause that is literally what they became. They killed the one child, out of a twisted and sick pleasure mixed with religion.
Most "learned" spychologists will tell you too that this is a very real possibility under the circumstances those kids faced int he book. They had absouultely no discipline other than basic nature.

And it is getting to where that is the only discipline our children are going to get cause the parents can not intervene any more and prevent them from learnign the hard way, out of fear of going to jail for the rest of their lives.

I truly suggest you step back and look more into the subject before you stand there and psout off that spanking is abuse, and there fore wrong etc. Yes there are other ways that should be tried first. I dont think a single person here would disageree that spanking should be at the end of a very long line of tried disciplines. But it needs to be in there as well.

Spanking does teach a lesson. The lesson is: �When you don�t know what else to do, hit!� or �When you�re bigger, you can hit,� or �When you�re really angry, you can get your way by hitting.� It�s common knowledge that children who are frequently hit are more likely to accept the use of violence and are more likely to hit other children. It only makes sense, because after all, children learn what they live. Children who are spanked often have more resentment and anger and lower self-esteem.

Positive, respectful, consistent discipline is the real key to raising well-behaved children.

Spanking does teach a lesson. The lesson is: �When you don�t know what else to do, hit!� or �When you�re bigger, you can hit,� or �When you�re really angry, you can get your way by hitting.� It�s common knowledge that children who are frequently hit are more likely to accept the use of violence and are more likely to hit other children. It only makes sense, because after all, children learn what they live. Children who are spanked often have more resentment and anger and lower self-esteem.

Positive, respectful, consistent discipline is the real key to raising well-behaved children.

I guess I have to break my own rule and respond.

Like I told the others, you don't know me. You don't know what I have read or learned. You Sir are just as ignorant as they are. And yet you think you can judge me. You think you can know me based on a simple profile?

I have read "Lord of the Flies" and a great number of SCIENTIFIC papers. Not fictional novels.

"Ignorant" is not a derogatory term.

Opinions are not facts.

Of course people are animals. However, we have this really cool characteristic called speech.

When I was 33 I thought I knew everything too. Guess what, you are sadly mistaken.

If it hasn't already happened, some day someone is not going to like what you have to say and they are going to hit you. Will you run straight to the police and file assault charges or will you pick yourself up and say, "Well, I guess I had that coming to me."

I am out of here. I will find some intelligent people who know how to discuss things without judging and attacking each other.

Your comments, grammar and spelling speak volumes.

BRAVA! Cute, you hit on several critical points without even trying!
Differences in environment, child and parent personalities and experience, what works and what dosen't, etc, etc, are only a bare handful of criteria to consider when determining how to raise your individual and distinct child.

Attacking another parents methods without knowing their circumstances only raise defenses, and when you're protecting yourself your ears and heart go to the corner to wait out the body count.

I admire your abitlity to hear the tall guys situation. Surely that same understanding is in play in your parenting!

I don't claim to know everything, I am not God. I do know what I have seen and experienced in life, and what I have read and studied. I also apologize to you for the fact that I did not take the time to go over my post this morning (or other times) to critique my spelling and grammer. However, I find it rather funny that in your rebuttal, when everything is broken down, all you can do is stand there and say "you are wrong gosh darn it, and you are ignorant as well, as your spelling and grammar shows".

You also go on to tell me that some day someone is going to hit me, and ask what my actions are going to be in that matter. And here is exactly what they have been and will continue to be if the situation arrives again.
first and foremost, I will walk away whenever possible, and yes call the police and file charges as well as a restraining order. I will not fight if I do not have to, and I have great respect for our laws. however, if I ma forced to fight in order to remove myself from the situation, yes you can damn well bet I will hurt the person in doing so. However, again I will walk away as soon as possible, and again file charges, and seek a restraining order.

You see, I was spanked and beaten as a child. I had extension cords used on my backside, along with tree branches, wooden soons, paddles, belts, etc.
I am not a person who goes out and picks fights. I do no tgo out and continue fights if they can be avoided as they settle nothing. However, if forced to defend myself or someone else, yes I will fight until it is no longer neccesarry to do so.

And I spanbk my children, to this day, if they need it. I holler first, or ground them. I use time outs first, I take things away. However if al that doesnt work, you can darn well bet they get a spanking and they know it.
And then after about five minutes, I will sit down with them and discuss everythign with them, and you know what? very rarely do they repeat the offense. Never more than one repeat.

Do I use switches and cords etc on my kids? No. I have used the belt once. other than that, just my hand, once for every two years of age.

So again, I ask you to rethink YOUR position, and see if possibly you might be the one with the wrong attitude here.

Abuse deserves someone stepping in and rpeventiong further abuse, yes. But spanking is not abuse.

Thank you.
I will not be posting in the forums again. Trying to help people is too painful.

As a Head Start teacher I am dealing with children on a daily basis, some of them are tyrants who think they are entitled to do whatever they like to anyone. I see parents abused by their children on a daily basis and find very disheartening to know that NO ONE has any control over these children. I once talked to a parent about their child who hit me regularly and was appalled when the parent laughed about it. It really makes me wonder what is going on in these children's homes, and when did it become OK to hit your parents and teachers???

There's no reason for physical punishment. It's a crutch for the weak minded. Emotional manipulation is much more productive.

"I'm so disappointed in your behavior, I can't even look at you. Get out of my sight." The first time you say it will choke you up but fight it off and learn to say it with a stearn look on your face till they leave the room. Finish your movie or whatever. About 2 hours later go find them and have the talk. Works like a charm. Only works if you don't argue with your kids, (key to building their respect). Also they need to respect you or they won't care if you're upset or not. Most of the time kids are just being stupid kids and just do things, "Cause it seemed like a good idea at the time." Let them be kids and let them try to tell you why it seemed like a good idea at the time and laugh at them. They'll feel stupid, and you get a hug.

Or hey, chase them around with a belt yelling your head off. It's your life. I just chose not to live like that.

What's right or wrong, in my opinion, is only to be determined by the parent. I had to swat my 4 year old boy from jumping off the top of his dresser because I was scared for his physical being. If it saves them from physical harm, and they're too young to reason with, sometimes it's necessary to put some fear into them.

I have a HUGE problem with that one...............seeing that was another of mom's favorite disciplines.............that emotional abuse and it stays with the person even longer than the scars of physical abuse.