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| Topic: Was Judas Iscariot really a bad guy? | |
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Oh and that A-M-E-N was to spidercmb NOT the person above me... btw, my name is Tops. lol |
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Judus was a VERY wicked man. How so? lol He sold his friends life out for money. If one of your friends handed you over to someone who wanted to kill you for a little bit of cash, wouldn't you consider that person "wicked"? Yes, I've heard of it, but could there be any other accounts that would say otherwise? YOU'RE TAKING AWAY THE FACT THAT GOD IS SOVERIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps, and thus I've asked the question above. |
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Judas was "picked"? because God "knew? *what the outcome would be*??? But - the "outcome" was PURELY ?? judas'"own" making?? If God "knew" (beforehand) what the "outcome" was going to be,then how can you state that it was PURELY Judas'own making? That's a really deep subject and not one I can get into right now, but I will answer quickly and can do something more indepth at another time. God exists outside of our universe and therefore outside of our time. To God, our universe is like an aqarium, he can see inside or stick his hand inside and make changes at will. Since our universe and time are finite and God is infinite, God can observe our entire universe from one end to the other from beginning to end. Therefore, God could know what Judas would do without influencing Judas' actions. |
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Yes because we have all turned aside and have become worthless ALL OF US God simply chooses some to be His children. Judus was still a "bad guy" Pharoah (spelling?) was a bad guy by not letting Isreal go but scripture says is was God who hardened his heart, so that God could showcase HIS Glory. But that didn't exempt pharoah and it doesn't exempt Judus. Both of them were wicked men. Judus especially God didn't choose him for salvation and he was used to BETRAY Jesus and God's purposes were fulfilled but know this if Judus hadn't sold Jesus out God purposes would have still been fulfilled, he would have used someone else and now we'd be sitting here discussing "was Barnabas really that bad of a guy?"
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We're not all robot's we have a will, and apart from God we will always choose wickedness, we are unable to choose righteously apart from God. Only when God free's us from the bondage of sin can we then praise and worship Him and do any level of good.
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That's my take.
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Yes because we have all turned aside and have become worthless ALL OF US God simply chooses some to be His children. Judus was still a "bad guy" Pharoah (spelling?) was a bad guy by not letting Isreal go but scripture says is was God who hardened his heart, so that God could showcase HIS Glory. But that didn't exempt pharoah and it doesn't exempt Judus. Both of them were wicked men. Judus especially God didn't choose him for salvation and he was used to BETRAY Jesus and God's purposes were fulfilled but know this if Judus hadn't sold Jesus out God purposes would have still been fulfilled, he would have used someone else and now we'd be sitting here discussing "was Barnabas really that bad of a guy?" I agree ultimately all our actions rest with us...God would just have found another way to fulfill his prophecy. |
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Amen
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The Prophecy was that Jesus would be murdered. Jesus was murdered. Judas played a role, but that doesn't exempt him from his own guilty. He sold a friends life for 40 peices of silver. A prophecy is foreknowledge of the future. Just because God knew before hand that Judas would betray Jesus, that in no way means that Judas was innocent. In fact, he killed himself out of guilt over what he had done. Even Judas felt that he had done wrong, to the point that he killed himself. God knew b4 Judas did what choice Judas would make in the end. He (God) did not influence his decision at all. Free Will |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Thu 05/22/08 09:20 AM
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then answer me this if god is "all powerful" - could god make an object so big and so heavy that he could not lift it?
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He was also stealing from the money bag long before he gave up Jesus though. He was so upset that the woman poured the alabaster on Jesus's feet because he said it could have went to the poor when in reality he wanted that for himself. So yeah, he was a bad guy in my book.
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God exists outside of our universe and therefore outside of our time. To God, our universe is like an aqarium, he can see inside or stick his hand inside and make changes at will. Since our universe and time are finite and God is infinite, God can observe our entire universe from one end to the other from beginning to end. Therefore, God could know what Judas would do without influencing Judas' actions. it seem's your saying then that he did not have a choice? meaning if god knew he would do it with out any of god's influence, then the act of betrayal was set in stone? If something is or can be pre-determined? - then how can it be by "free" will? |
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then answer me this if god is "all powerful" - could god make an object so big and so heavy that he could not lift it? I think we can be more mature than asking silly questions, don't you? |
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God exists outside of our universe and therefore outside of our time. To God, our universe is like an aqarium, he can see inside or stick his hand inside and make changes at will. Since our universe and time are finite and God is infinite, God can observe our entire universe from one end to the other from beginning to end. Therefore, God could know what Judas would do without influencing Judas' actions. it seem's your saying then that he did not have a choice? meaning if god knew he would do it with out any of god's influence, then the act of betrayal was set in stone? If something is or can be pre-determined? - then how can it be by "free" will? The decisions were made by Judas...I thought that was obvious. If someone says "I'm going to go kill my wife", you already know he's going to kill his wife, but he still has freewill, right? It's the same thing here. That was a really weak question to begin with, the answer was obvious. |
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Here is my conspiracy theory:
Judas's job was to point to the wrong man while Jesus escaped, and Simon was the one who actually died on the cross. JB |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Thu 05/22/08 10:52 AM
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God exists outside of our universe and therefore outside of our time. To God, our universe is like an aqarium, he can see inside or stick his hand inside and make changes at will. Since our universe and time are finite and God is infinite, God can observe our entire universe from one end to the other from beginning to end. Therefore, God could know what Judas would do without influencing Judas' actions. it seem's your saying then that he did not have a choice? meaning if god knew he would do it with out any of god's influence, then the act of betrayal was set in stone? If something is or can be pre-determined? - then how can it be by "free" will? The decisions were made by Judas...I thought that was obvious. If someone says "I'm going to go kill my wife", you already know he's going to kill his wife, but he still has freewill, right? It's the same thing here. That was a really weak question to begin with, the answer was obvious. he had the free will then as to do or not do the deed? i disagree - If god know's with omniscient surity that someones actions will be as he see;s them to be and lets the course of those actions take place with the desired results he foreknew would take place then Judas WAS "for-ordained" to act in just that manner - god knew that would be "THE" choice Judas would make, Was it his free will that made the choice? NO - for "free will" to be really free there can be no influences of any kind! No thought or act exist that is not influenced by something or someone- god or otherwise.By being born and put into that environment and time and circumstances - GOD - "used his decision" to further His "own agenda"!! If god want's to "save people" which god thru christ says he want to do - and has the ability to reach his hand into the cosmic fishbowl and arrange things as he see's fit - why would he let anyone - judas/pharoah/others, be put into those circumstances where they would commit the act of betrayal to begin with? You cannot truly have free will if the influences that god would put into your life to get you where your headed eventually, put's you in a position where you really have no choice to do but that which was set in motion from before you existed. that is pre-destination. The only FREE WILL Judas or any one could ever really have - is if god himself were to ask us / judas or anyone else in advance if we would like to be born and live on earth and die, while informing us of what things to expect to happen through out that time we would be there/here - in other word's an "informed offer" to accept or decline before any thing took place.That to me is "FREE WILL" |
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as to my childish question - give me a grown up answer.
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God exists outside of our universe and therefore outside of our time. To God, our universe is like an aqarium, he can see inside or stick his hand inside and make changes at will. Since our universe and time are finite and God is infinite, God can observe our entire universe from one end to the other from beginning to end. Therefore, God could know what Judas would do without influencing Judas' actions. it seem's your saying then that he did not have a choice? meaning if god knew he would do it with out any of god's influence, then the act of betrayal was set in stone? If something is or can be pre-determined? - then how can it be by "free" will? The decisions were made by Judas...I thought that was obvious. If someone says "I'm going to go kill my wife", you already know he's going to kill his wife, but he still has freewill, right? It's the same thing here. That was a really weak question to begin with, the answer was obvious. he had the free will then as to do or not do the deed? i disagree - If god know's with omniscient surity that someones actions will be as he see;s them to be and lets the course of those actions take place with the desired results he foreknew would take place then Judas WAS "for-ordained" to act in just that manner - god knew that would be "THE" choice Judas would make, Was it his free will that made the choice? NO - for "free will" to be really free there can be no influences of any kind! No thought or act exist that is not influenced by something or someone- god or otherwise.By being born and put into that environment and time and circumstances - GOD - "used his decision" to further His "own agenda"!! If god want's to "save people" which god thru christ says he want to do - and has the ability to reach his hand into the cosmic fishbowl and arrange things as he see's fit - why would he let anyone - judas/pharoah/others, be put into those circumstances where they would commit the act of betrayal to begin with? You cannot truly have free will if the influences that god would put into your life to get you where your headed eventually, put's you in a position where you really have no choice to do but that which was set in motion from before you existed. that is pre-destination. The only FREE WILL Judas or any one could ever really have - is if god himself were to ask us / judas or anyone else in advance if we would like to be born and live on earth and die, while informing us of what things to expect to happen through out that time we would be there/here - in other word's an "informed offer" to accept or decline before any thing took place.That to me is "FREE WILL" This is a strawman argument. You are arguing that if God arranged things so that Judas would betray Jesus, that would be removing Judas' freewill. I agree. But I never made any such claim, did I? God knew what the outcome would be, so the prophecys were made based on Judas' future actions. If Judas hadn't betrayed Jesus, then the prophecies would have been different. Maybe Jesus would have been arrested on the street. Or Jesus might have been stoned to death. Or Jesus might have been betrayed by a different apostle. We don't know, do we? What we do know is that Judas betrayed Jesus and Jesus died on the cross. God's prophecies were based on foreknowledge of what would happen in the situation, the situation was not arranged by God. |
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as to my childish question - give me a grown up answer. You are asking if God is stronger than himself. Are you stronger than yourself? Does that question make any sense? Why would God desire two different outcomes? To make a rock so big that he can't lift it and to be able to lift the rock. The question is nonsense and you are WAY too old to be asking it. It's a childish question, but this was a grownup answer. |
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as to my childish question - give me a grown up answer. You are asking if God is stronger than himself. Are you stronger than yourself? Does that question make any sense? Why would God desire two different outcomes? To make a rock so big that he can't lift it and to be able to lift the rock. The question is nonsense and you are WAY too old to be asking it. It's a childish question, but this was a grownup answer. Oh wait...wait wait wait. Did you actually believe that was a valid question? You didn't realize that EVERY religion with a god has answered that question? You didn't realized that question is utter nonsense and would cause you to be laughed at by the most loving theologian of any relgion? |
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