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| Topic: The Truth About Veteran Suicides | |
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What do you think about this Driven, A civilian therapist, nor a military therapist who has not experienced the same horrors as these Boys stands a snowball chance in hell to help them! How can they? There is no school, no university graduate that can have even the slightest idea of what they go through! Would you ask for help fixing your car from a barber? No! What these men need is a cooling off period. A period in which they live with their peers, Grunts with Grunts, Marines with Marines, a soldier of a different MOS or branch of service will not do. They need to be grouped with soldiers from the same areas, in an environment where they can slowly adjust to the calm and peace of society. A time when they can talk amongst themselves about the problems they are commonly experiencing as they make regular contact with their families and a society which has no idea what problems readjusting they are experiencing. A group where they and their families can make friendships, exchange addresses, and phone numbers, so they can talk and slowly readjust back to civilian life! This time needs to be supervised and mandatory. Letting them slowly, at their own pace learn to meld back into a society that has no idea of the hell they have lived through. They will never forget, but they can learn to readjust, to deal. No Harvard Graduate with a degree in psychiatry, or psychology can help them! Only time and brother-ship can!! I do not even want to write this as few of you can understand, but at least you do seem to care. That sounds great, Fanta. But I would like to add that I believe that the Harvard Grad should still be in their lives in addition to your idea. They may not have experienced war but they still are beneficial. If the vets do not get the help that they need, there is a dominino affect. It affects their families, their children, their jobs and society. Thru their children, the negative affects may maintain thru several generations. Supervision is important too I think winx, but it should be in an observation and consulting position only! I am going to disagree with you on that one, Fanta.  I like everything in your idea. But..seeing a therapist for 45 mins. a day or for 45 mins. a week will not be a negative thing.
Let's say that I'm in fire and later need counseling. Would only therapists that have been in fires be beneficial to me? |
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Its not the same. Did you light the match? Did you walk up later and see the carnage that you had inflicted on another human being?
Its not the same!! |
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I can never resist an oppurtunity to post this!!
I am the Infantry. I am my country's strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight - wherever, whenever. I carry America's faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be - the best trained solder in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country's trust. Always I fight on - through the foe, to the objective, to triumph over all. If necessary, I fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won 200 years of freedom. I yield not - to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, for I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not - my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME! |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Tue 05/13/08 08:52 AM
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Only 2% of our military fall in that MOS!!!
They are my brothers!!! 
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Its not the same. Did you light the match? Did you walk up later and see the carnage that you had inflicted on another human being? Its not the same!! There are PTSD specialists. |
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Its not the same. Did you light the match? Did you walk up later and see the carnage that you had inflicted on another human being? Its not the same!! There are PTSD specialists.
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Its not the same. Did you light the match? Did you walk up later and see the carnage that you had inflicted on another human being? Its not the same!! There are PTSD specialists.
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I hear ya on the docs Fanta. I would prefer to be counseled by a fellow vet. Although a will admit sometimes the non-vets who have counseled a lot of vets are pretty knowledgable. Usually if they have no experience they will try to get a group therapy session going so vets can help eachother.
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I hear ya on the docs Fanta. I would prefer to be counseled by a fellow vet. Although a will admit sometimes the non-vets who have counseled a lot of vets are pretty knowledgable. Usually if they have no experience they will try to get a group therapy session going so vets can help eachother.
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Let me start o ut by stating I am all for a total revamp of the va system, with a one hundred thousand per cent change of staff and policies. The va ****ed my ex-wife over big time, cost us our marriage, and so far has caused her to only get worse with her mental health. I agree their is no such think as mental health care in the va system.
HOWEVER, The statitsic that was posted in the beginning of this thread is so full of bullchit it isnt even funny. STOP AND DO THE MATH PEOPLE, and you willsee why I hate so-called statistical proof. 'War' States that 18 soldiers per day commit suicide (He may have said average, but still...) If you do the math, 18 soldiers a day is 6,570 soldiers a year dead by their own hand. That's SIX-THOUSAND, FIVE-HUNDRED AND SEVENTY SOLDIERS A YEAR. Now, add up the last ten years since I was in the service, and you have 65,700 soldiers dead by their own hands, and who knows how many others that tried. As of 2007, there was 1,380,082 soldiers on active duty between the entire military branches. That would mean that TWENTY-ONE PERCENT of the standing active military commited suicide in 2007. It's time to stop and smell the coffee folks (or whatever you prefer to use to wakes yourselves up with  ). I am sure 'war' gave an honest number form what he found, however simply logic and common sense dictates that 18 per day number is nothing but bullchit. I am not going to go indepth enough to look up over 65 thousand death records, but I garuntee you the majority of them dont exist. Not by suicide anyway.
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Let me start o ut by stating I am all for a total revamp of the va system, with a one hundred thousand per cent change of staff and policies. The va ****ed my ex-wife over big time, cost us our marriage, and so far has caused her to only get worse with her mental health. I agree their is no such think as mental health care in the va system. HOWEVER, The statitsic that was posted in the beginning of this thread is so full of bullchit it isnt even funny. STOP AND DO THE MATH PEOPLE, and you willsee why I hate so-called statistical proof. 'War' States that 18 soldiers per day commit suicide (He may have said average, but still...) If you do the math, 18 soldiers a day is 6,570 soldiers a year dead by their own hand. That's SIX-THOUSAND, FIVE-HUNDRED AND SEVENTY SOLDIERS A YEAR. Now, add up the last ten years since I was in the service, and you have 65,700 soldiers dead by their own hands, and who knows how many others that tried. As of 2007, there was 1,380,082 soldiers on active duty between the entire military branches. That would mean that TWENTY-ONE PERCENT of the standing active military commited suicide in 2007. It's time to stop and smell the coffee folks (or whatever you prefer to use to wakes yourselves up with ). I am sure 'war' gave an honest number form what he found, however simply logic and common sense dictates that 18 per day number is nothing but bullchit. I am not going to go indepth enough to look up over 65 thousand death records, but I garuntee you the majority of them dont exist. Not by suicide anyway.
Oh no ya don't. These aren't my numbers, these are the numbers that were released after one high ranking numbnuts from the VA admin. sent this email: "Shh!" begins one e-mail from Dr. Ira Katz, the head of the VA's Mental Health Division, advising a media spokesperson not to tell CBS News that 1,000 veterans receiving care at the VA try to kill themselves every month. "Our suicide prevention coordinators are identifying about 1,000 suicide attempts per month among the veterans we see in our medical facilities. Is this something we should (carefully) address ourselves in some sort of release before someone stumbles on it?" the e-mail concludes. The other statistics, they come from the Rand Corp., these aren't "WAR" stating anything, these numbers are what have been used to see that these people can start getting the care they need and deserve, which is what I posted them for, same as the 9/11 first responders. These are the numbers being used in the class action lawsuit against Peake and the same numbers that were presented by the Chair of the House Committee on Veterans Affairs. My guess is that they have a little more insight into this information than you or I do. Also your math isn't even correct. 18 a day times 30 days in a month equals 540. multiply that by 12 and you get 6,480. I actually used a calculator, just to be sure. |
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Also, I'm sure if the guy writing this piece is printing such absolute "false" information, then he would be stopped by some sort of Government intervention or at least a freaking press statement.
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Edited by
daniel48706
on
Wed 05/14/08 08:23 AM
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Let me start o ut by stating I am all for a total revamp of the va system, with a one hundred thousand per cent change of staff and policies. The va ****ed my ex-wife over big time, cost us our marriage, and so far has caused her to only get worse with her mental health. I agree their is no such think as mental health care in the va system. HOWEVER, The statitsic that was posted in the beginning of this thread is so full of bullchit it isnt even funny. STOP AND DO THE MATH PEOPLE, and you willsee why I hate so-called statistical proof. 'War' States that 18 soldiers per day commit suicide (He may have said average, but still...) If you do the math, 18 soldiers a day is 6,570 soldiers a year dead by their own hand. That's SIX-THOUSAND, FIVE-HUNDRED AND SEVENTY SOLDIERS A YEAR. Now, add up the last ten years since I was in the service, and you have 65,700 soldiers dead by their own hands, and who knows how many others that tried. As of 2007, there was 1,380,082 soldiers on active duty between the entire military branches. That would mean that TWENTY-ONE PERCENT of the standing active military commited suicide in 2007. It's time to stop and smell the coffee folks (or whatever you prefer to use to wakes yourselves up with ). I am sure 'war' gave an honest number form what he found, however simply logic and common sense dictates that 18 per day number is nothing but bullchit. I am not going to go indepth enough to look up over 65 thousand death records, but I garuntee you the majority of them dont exist. Not by suicide anyway.
Oh no ya don't. These aren't my numbers, these are the numbers that were released after one high ranking numbnuts from the VA admin. sent this email: "Shh!" begins one e-mail from Dr. Ira Katz, the head of the VA's Mental Health Division, advising a media spokesperson not to tell CBS News that 1,000 veterans receiving care at the VA try to kill themselves every month. "Our suicide prevention coordinators are identifying about 1,000 suicide attempts per month among the veterans we see in our medical facilities. Is this something we should (carefully) address ourselves in some sort of release before someone stumbles on it?" the e-mail concludes. The other statistics, they come from the Rand Corp., these aren't "WAR" stating anything, these numbers are what have been used to see that these people can start getting the care they need and deserve, which is what I posted them for, same as the 9/11 first responders. These are the numbers being used in the class action lawsuit against Peake and the same numbers that were presented by the Chair of the House Committee on Veterans Affairs. My guess is that they have a little more insight into this information than you or I do. Also your math isn't even correct. 18 a day times 30 days in a month equals 540. multiply that by 12 and you get 6,480. I actually used a calculator, just to be sure. 
Also, it is your math that is flawed. There are 364 days in a year. Multipy 18 against 364, and yuo will come up with the number I quoted earlier (ya see, I DID use a calcluator  ).
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Wed 05/14/08 08:16 AM
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Let me start o ut by stating I am all for a total revamp of the va system, with a one hundred thousand per cent change of staff and policies. The va ****ed my ex-wife over big time, cost us our marriage, and so far has caused her to only get worse with her mental health. I agree their is no such think as mental health care in the va system. HOWEVER, The statitsic that was posted in the beginning of this thread is so full of bullchit it isnt even funny. STOP AND DO THE MATH PEOPLE, and you willsee why I hate so-called statistical proof. 'War' States that 18 soldiers per day commit suicide (He may have said average, but still...) If you do the math, 18 soldiers a day is 6,570 soldiers a year dead by their own hand. That's SIX-THOUSAND, FIVE-HUNDRED AND SEVENTY SOLDIERS A YEAR. Now, add up the last ten years since I was in the service, and you have 65,700 soldiers dead by their own hands, and who knows how many others that tried. As of 2007, there was 1,380,082 soldiers on active duty between the entire military branches. That would mean that TWENTY-ONE PERCENT of the standing active military commited suicide in 2007. It's time to stop and smell the coffee folks (or whatever you prefer to use to wakes yourselves up with ). I am sure 'war' gave an honest number form what he found, however simply logic and common sense dictates that 18 per day number is nothing but bullchit. I am not going to go indepth enough to look up over 65 thousand death records, but I garuntee you the majority of them dont exist. Not by suicide anyway.
Oh no ya don't. These aren't my numbers, these are the numbers that were released after one high ranking numbnuts from the VA admin. sent this email: "Shh!" begins one e-mail from Dr. Ira Katz, the head of the VA's Mental Health Division, advising a media spokesperson not to tell CBS News that 1,000 veterans receiving care at the VA try to kill themselves every month. "Our suicide prevention coordinators are identifying about 1,000 suicide attempts per month among the veterans we see in our medical facilities. Is this something we should (carefully) address ourselves in some sort of release before someone stumbles on it?" the e-mail concludes. The other statistics, they come from the Rand Corp., these aren't "WAR" stating anything, these numbers are what have been used to see that these people can start getting the care they need and deserve, which is what I posted them for, same as the 9/11 first responders. These are the numbers being used in the class action lawsuit against Peake and the same numbers that were presented by the Chair of the House Committee on Veterans Affairs. My guess is that they have a little more insight into this information than you or I do. Also your math isn't even correct. 18 a day times 30 days in a month equals 540. multiply that by 12 and you get 6,480. I actually used a calculator, just to be sure.
Also, it is your math that is flawed. There are 364 days in a year. Multipy 18 against 364, and yuo will come up with the number I quoted earlier (ya see, I DID use a calcluator ).
Now, add up the last ten years since I was in the service, and you have 65,700 soldiers dead by their own hands, and who knows how many others that tried. As of 2007, there was 1,380,082 soldiers on active duty between the entire military branches. ================================================================ If you are going to use the figure 67,000 within a ten year period shouldn't you also use the total number of soldiers that have served in ten years. Your calculator may be correct, but your analogy is way off. Your thinking is extremely flawed.. |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Wed 05/14/08 08:18 AM
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If you take the first number, the 6,570, and get the percentage for current military levels it would be closer yet still flawed.
Many of the soldiers, airmen, marines, and sailors never see combat at all. |
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War, I am sorry, I owe you an apology. I don't know what happened, but y post did not post completely. I had aslo stated that I was sure yuo were vasing yuor numbers off of an article or source other than yourself. For whatever reason that did not get posted with my response, and I am sorry.
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Ok, i have met many staff members in the VA here in Maine (two different locations), as well as Tennessee. We just need more staff. Good god, the staff i've met were the most caring individuals that i have seen in a hospital environment. In fact, my best friend did his pharmacy rotations there at the end of pharmacy school. These are the type of people that seriously track you down if you accidently miss your appointment. They call you from their home number to make sure you are ok. And this is when you aren't suicidal or about to explode in some way. He had nothing but good things to say about the staff. So, my conclusion is they need more funding and more personel. Our civilian hospital staffs could learn a thing or two from the staffs at the VA.
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If you take the first number, the 6,570, and get the percentage for current military levels it would be closer yet still flawed. Many of the soldiers, airmen, marines, and sailors never see combat at all. That's true Fanta, and i was justinthe process of doing it on the daily, or yearly percentage instead, to take into acount variances over the years... |
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Edited by
daniel48706
on
Wed 05/14/08 08:34 AM
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Ok, i have met many staff members in the VA here in Maine (two different locations), as well as Tennessee. We just need more staff. Good god, the staff i've met were the most caring individuals that i have seen in a hospital environment. In fact, my best friend did his pharmacy rotations there at the end of pharmacy school. These are the type of people that seriously track you down if you accidently miss your appointment. They call you from their home number to make sure you are ok. And this is when you aren't suicidal or about to explode in some way. He had nothing but good things to say about the staff. So, my conclusion is they need more funding and more personel. Our civilian hospital staffs could learn a thing or two from the staffs at the VA. I iwll not disagree that there are good doctors in the va; there are SOME. I will not disagree that theya llput on a good front (calling for apts and such). However, to use my ex-wifes doc as an example (and Ihave SEEN more like him than like a good doctor). She has bipolar disorder, among other things. He diagnosed a medication forher while we were still married. I looked the med up in the medical handbook that they are required to use, and it specifically stated do not give to patients with bipolar, as it iwll increase their symptoms . I asked him about this and referenced his handbook, and his response was simple "I am the doctor here, you don;t know anything about this." And then he went on to order her to conmtinue taking it. She and I took the issue to his supervisor who immediately discontinued the drug. However, nothing was done to her psychiatrist about it. So, in my opinion, the va's NEED to be revamped. Big Time. |
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