When I hear words in the Bible referring to "surrender," "submission" & "being a slave to," it use to be a real turn off. We like to use words like choice or decision etc etc, but really? When you think about it...it's all surrender...we are always surrendering, submitting or being a slave to something. It's all a matter of choosing what we submit to. Right?

When I think of how awesome God's creation is, I have to admit that it makes me feel like a spec of sand. Isn't it an awesome thing that God thinks so much of us...his smallest creatures in the universe. We are the smallest yet He gave us dominion over everything else. Humanity has been given a GREAT privlege, but I'm just not sure that many humans see it that way or why would we not submit to our Loving Father God?

Just sayin'.....

"Quit fighting life and it will let you win."

quote provided by: (Bathroom, Clean)

Surrender to "GOD" and embrace your destiny

that's a good one...LOL

I agree with you wholeheartedly here. Who wouldn’t want to submit to our creator.

The problem is that you point to the Bible as being the creator's word.

Why is that a problem?

Well, it's a problem for me because I have absolutely no reason to believe that the Bible is the word of God. God never came to me and say, “Here is a book I want to you follow”.

On the contrary men pointed me to that book, and from what I read in the book it certainly doesn’t sound to me like it was written by my creator. Moreover, that particular book has been responsible for more wars and bloodshed than probably any other single text ever written So why should I believe that book has anything to do with God? From my perspective it appears to have demonic powers if anything.

Even look at the world today. Much of the tension in the world is being caused by that book (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) are all founded on that book.

Now you may say, “Wait a minute, Islam isn’t founded on that book”. But in truth it is. Their Quran contains many of the same stories and characters as the Bible. It’s the same folklore with a differnet spin. Which raises even more question. If the Bible is the book of God then why did he allow it to fall into three major religions?

So I’m all for doing the will of God.

My only objection is to those who point to the Bible and claim that it represent the will of God.

I totally disagree.

I believe that God speaks to us directly as individuals in our hearts. No needs to try to shove any specific books down people’s throats. That’s only going to cause political unrest, and I personally don’t believe that God would want that.

I don’t believe that it is God’s will for us to be trying to shove specific religious doctrines onto other people claiming that they are the word of God when in fact we really don’t know that to be the case.

Would God really want you do push a religious doctrine onto other people when he never personally told you it was his????

Only the book claims that it speaks for God.

God never told me that book speaks for him.

To believe the book would be to worship the book.

I’d rather worship God and toss the book in the fire.

That's how I feel about it.

That last post was too true for mainstream acceptance.

I'm down though. It's reality for me.

such as is your faith, my friend, so is His faithfulness to your faith.

I have heard the Lord speak of things biblically and He will assert their validity. But that validity is not to defend the book.

That validity was to point me to his promises contained therein.

And to those, as I established faith to believe were of Him, so has He blessed me to possess of such promises.

I am not negating your point of view, which I find boldly refreshing and not bound by the compunction of revering tacitly.

I am, however, acknowledging the stark contrast of faith and faithfulness as attributed to God.

I am sure there are promises that would be wholeheaartedly embraced by many if the hard things found in the pages of the Holy Bible could be emphatic without fear of ridicule.

Ridicule, though, is not within the control of the the receiver, but in the ill will of the perpetrator.

The perpetrator of such ridicule is not one that slows me at all.

Perhaps that has an affect on the dispensation of promises acknowledged. I have received the benefits of those promises.

Even so, they are conditional to the abundance of a lack of trepidation.

I guess my faith is so strong that I don't need any promises. Promises are for those who need a carrot dangling before their nose before they'll respond.

Why would you doubt that your creator isn't at least as compassionate as you are? Why would you feel that you need a promise?

“Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.” – Albert Einstein

Abra, why would you suppose doubt exists in me for that to be so?

I snuff at trepidation

some promises don't come but for the acknowledgement given that they are present. It is the form and substance of the promises that is oft overlooked in their sublime.


As far as carrots go, they lead an ass well to suppose that the treat is in reach when , in fact, a horse would be better suited to drawing the cart.

But then, the cart is not the issue, only the beast of burden chosen.


And yes, some men are poor indeed, Abra. But then, I see the sublime in Einstein. I have read that he said his understanding came to him and he had to qualify it to make it known to others. I count him as a horse having the wherewithal to pull a cart without reward and giving of himself that which was given him. Very few recognize the sublime.

The wages of sin is death & seperation from God into eternity. The term ransomed means "saved" by the blood of the Lamb. The price was not money but "He who knew no sin became sin" for all of humanity. It's very plain to see...

Isa 53 says...

5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul,and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

If you can't see the great Love God had for Humanity then know this, in His death was also His ressurection power for us all to overcome in this life. In what the law was powerless to do, Jesus came to give ressurection power.

BTW...there is nothing mamby pamby about being a believer in Christ. I am not ashamed of my belief. It's the power of God for all who believe in the name of Jesus. God, in His love for us, made EVERY provision for our salvation.

That's really all you need to know. OK? ;)

BTW...it seems that you are not really open to seeking out His word & have decided to create God the way you want to see Him but God will not go back on His word. The carnal mind can not possibly understand the things of God but God will reveal it to those who earnestly seek to know HIM. You are looking at it from human intellect & that's what you are struggling with. God blessings to helping you discover the wonderful truthes as God proclaims in His word.

"When I hear words in the Bible referring to "surrender," "submission" & "being a slave to," it use to be a real turn off."

I used to feel the same up till about 4 years ago. Funny how life experience, maturity, and the people we come across in life teach us and change things.

It is a real turn on for me now and I also adhere to the spiritual component of the same.

HOWEVER, the one I do this for is ultimately very special and worthy of my respect and trust in being able to do this for them. For this one special person, I am very grateful that my offering is accepted and prized. I am grateful for their caring, protection, and more.

to have to make a choice wheather to submit or surrender under the rules of one's captor out of fear and then become content that the surrender was actually your choice as you slowly begin to identify with the captor is called "Stockholm Syndrome" ..




God created the angels before humans..the angels are in heaven with God and humans are not .....God gave angels more power than humans ...and god made humans out of dirt

I don't believe that the "Surrender" that is being referred to in this thread is surrender out of fear or force, quite the opposite, in fact. It is surrender out of choice, consent, joy.


Edited to add that God also created Man in His own image.

You didn’t get this from God. You got it from a book.

I don’t believe this premise to begin with. Why should I?

How could I possibly be separated from God?

That would imply that I exist separate from God and that I am an entity in my own right. That would imply that I am a god in my own right.

Moreover, how could I be separated from God into eternity? According to the book to which you refer the only way to have eternal life is to believe in what the book claims in the first place. If you don’t believe in what the book claims then you won’t be granted eternal life. Therefore you won’t be around to be separated from God for eternity. You’ll simply perish and cease to exist altogether just like you supposedly were before you were born. Nothing gained, nothing lost. It would be no big deal.

According to the Bible the only way to get into eternal damnation is to first believe in the God it describes, and then refuse to obey that God. So to qualify for eternal damnation you must first be accepted for eternal life, and then knowingly and willingly disobey God by your own free will choice.

Personally I see this entire story to be totally without merit and no less incredulous than Greek Mythology. Do you realize that there is even a reference to a fire-breathing dragon in the Bible? Not to mention the reptilian Satan who is supposedly a demonic angel who tried to overthrow God’s authoritarian status and who is still at war with this God even as we speak.

Not to mention that 33% of God’s angels chose to side with this demonic reptilian beast. That one hell of a lot of angels to be upset with God and his supposedly ‘perfect’ heaven. Obviously they didn’t think it was so perfect.

If you want to worship an ancient archaic story as though it represents God that’s certainly your choice. But why should you try to encourage me to believe in such an incredulous story?

I believe that God is actually superior to me. That includes being more compassionate than me. The Biblical picture of a jealous vengeful God who lusts for blood sacrifices is far inferior to my level of compassion. Based on that very simple and clear observation I can clearly see that this story can’t be speaking about my creator.

So I looked around to see if maybe there were better pictures of God that actually did describe a God who is truly more compassionate than myself. Fortunately I found that picture in pantheism. A picture of a God that not only has truly unconditional love to offer, but a picture that actually makes sense. No need for any demonic evil serpents, not need for any hellish damnations. No need for blood sacrifices to appease this God. This God truly is perfect in every way. I prefer to refer to this God in the feminine, but that’s just my personal preference, as God is truly spiritual and has no gender. But it’s nicer to refer to God as Her rather than as “it”.

The pantheistic God created the world in such a way that there are no losers. No one can fall from God’s grace. It’s simply not possible. There are no losers.

Compare that with the biblical picture of a jealous God who had to create an eternal hellfire in which He can cast all his losers. That far from a perfect creation. Thus is represents an imperfect God.

So I honor God by choosing the best possible picture I can find to describe Her. From my point of view it would be an insult to God to suggest that She is a jealous egotist who has ambitions of becoming the king of kings and lord of lords to reign over Her own creation. It would also belittle her to suggest that she’s at war with a fallen angel that she can’t control. Or that angles would even want to turn against her in the first place. No one who knows the pantheistic God would ever want to turn against her. That entire concept is utterly absurd. She represent pure unconditional love. Not the extremely conditional judgmental love of the biblical God that must be purchases via gory blood sacrifices.

So I’ve chosen to believe that God truly is all-loving and all-wise like the pantheistic picture of God suggests.

If it turns out that God is actually an egotistical pig with a personal agenda to rule his own universe then obviously I’ll be wrong and I’ll weep in sorrow that God isn’t even as nice as me.

How sad would it be to discover that God is just as corrupt as the men in that he lusts for power just like they do?

I pray to God that the Biblical picture is the biggest lie mankind ever made up. To think that God could actually be that demented truly is a nightmare beyond all nightmares. That would be a demonic God to be sure. I would want no parts of any such deity. If such a deity actually does exist I would do my very best to satisfy whatever it requires of me that I need to do to be put to death and erased from the entire madness of its existence. I certainly wouldn’t even attempt to appease it to try win it’s so-called “love”.

surrender no matter how you look at it means to give up and submit ..and when one surrender to a force they believe is overwhelming then they surrender because they believe they have no choice but to surrender ...to call it joy consent or choice is really how the person deals with not having a choice...it's called contentment



in that case man would look like a burning bush

I am content when I submit because I am in awe and admiration of a Wonderful Man.

Burning Bush, hmmmm....sounds kinda' kinky.

Seriously, if we are talking symbolically, I would be on passionate fire to be with an individual who had such a burning fire in his soul and purpose in life; one who was pure in thought and deed.

Gee, funches - sounds like you've been hurt. Sorry, guy.

I've been hurt too. I don't subscribe to organized religion anymore - more spiritual than anything else these days. My Faith is still there, though.

..er...I think they call that being horny



well that is how God made his first appearance ..or maybe the bible was mis-translated and meant to say that Moses was on the mountain smoking a burning bush



well I'm pure as the driven snow and my deeds are "just"

and it sounds like you are trying to be Dr. Phil ...this is just a debate forum not the Oprah Windrey Show



well I'm sorry that you been hurt ...but do all hurt people run to organize religions ....well me myself I perfer saturadays when it's greasy food and beer night