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| Topic: fearing the unknown | |
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I like soap boxes. They're good for storing cigar boxes in. U will burn in HELL 4 that!!! |
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Kaff kaff. Hack hack hack!
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Ok the sentence before this still tells you clearly to "Judge Not" So which one are you going to follow? You can't cherry pick the Bible, so we should live by both. The Matthew 7:1 is a warning of the severity of making Judgements and Matthew 7:2 is an explaination that judging should be done fairly. So I take the two together to mean that we will be judged in the same manner in which we judge, so we should always be careful to judge fairly. Matthew 7:1 stands as a warning that if we aren't sure we are making a fair judgement, then we shouldn't make a judgement at all. Why would God give us laws and then find us guilty for implementing them? That makes no sense at all, but when you take into account that one of God's laws has always been to judge fairly, Matthew 7:1-2 makes perfect sense. |
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Zapchaser I enjoyed your comments.
The scriptures seem to counterdict themselves when it comes to judging. Yet it is speaking of the outside world and the foriegner in you. Judge that you be not judged. Is here speaking of a brother.It is a warning to not jump to conclusions to quickly for you may be more guilty than your brother. The beam affect. Prov. tells us a wise man considers the matter first. Later in mathew we come to the sinning brother. This is a type of judgement but is to be done so out of love for him. This is one of the distinct sayings that Yahshua gave. It has to do with Love. 1st you go to him alone. no one else need know.2nd if he refuses to reason then you go and bring another who knows of his continual sinning and try to reason again. At this point your sinning brother is to have confidentiality, trust and love from his brothers to take the time to talk and try to reason with him. 3rd if he still will not listen it the becomes public knowledge. It is brought before the assembly and he is put out. This is the worst judgement because this is considered Yahweh's judgement on him. Many religions have taken the words. whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. These verses have given clergy the right they believe to dictate Yahweh's will as though they were him. Brothers this should not be. These are speaking of being brought into the family when you are washed. bound. Loosed is squelching the spirit being let go to whom Satan will now attach hoping and praying this brother will come back and not loose his place in the book of life. This is serious business between brothers in the faith. Then thier is the brother who looses faith and wanders off. We are told bringing him back will cover a multitude of yours/our sins. This type delusion yahshua spoke of is a brother that he see's as so important that he is to be considered Top priority in the Assembly to go after before he becomes worse than before he was washed. Then comes the outsider. we do not judge him at all. We love him. We be his friend as the stranger who was robbed on the road. We show mercy as Yahweh shows mercy on whoever he pleases. This is our faith to be true. Judgement starts at the House of Israel. If they barely can make it what is to become of the outsider. Your compassion to the stranger may be the seed or water that makes them grow on the good ground.Thier are many judgements for many circumstances.If you know to do good and do not do it. Then it is sin to you. An unwritten sin that the spirit of Hope is trying to show you.. Blessings..Miles |
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Edited by
Zapchaser
on
Sat 04/12/08 09:26 PM
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Christians are told in gods word that if any so called brother is sining and dont want 2 stop, then that person is to be disfellowshiped, And to 'not even eat at the same table with that person'. christians are 2 use judgment, is it right or wrong 2 to steal?, u must use judgment, can anyone further explain the diff. between being a selfrightous self apointed judge of others, and using judgment about issues? I'm bias against murder, that is not a bad bias. Hope someone can explain it better than I. Are you referring to Luke 17:3,4? “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 “And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.” Or are you referring to Matthew 18? 15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 “But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.  1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within? God will judge those outside. "Purge the evil person from your midst." Expanding on Paul's letter to the Corinthians a bit for you. 1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[a] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. 6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth. 9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." |
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Edited by
sethwyo
on
Sat 04/12/08 09:43 PM
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1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within? God will judge those outside. "Purge the evil person from your midst." Ok the sentence before this still tells you clearly to "Judge Not" So which one are you going to follow? Both. The difference is between judging and judgment. I use my judgment to decide not to go along with something bad someone is doing, But i cannot judge them as though im in gods place, If thay will be forgiven or not, When a fello christian who is held to a higher standard is doing something wrong they need to be called out on it, If they wont stop then we stone them. |
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Zapchaser I enjoyed your comments. The scriptures seem to counterdict themselves when it comes to judging. Yet it is speaking of the outside world and the foriegner in you. Judge that you be not judged. Is here speaking of a brother.It is a warning to not jump to conclusions to quickly for you may be more guilty than your brother. The beam affect. Prov. tells us a wise man considers the matter first. Later in mathew we come to the sinning brother. This is a type of judgement but is to be done so out of love for him. This is one of the distinct sayings that Yahshua gave. It has to do with Love. 1st you go to him alone. no one else need know.2nd if he refuses to reason then you go and bring another who knows of his continual sinning and try to reason again. At this point your sinning brother is to have confidentiality, trust and love from his brothers to take the time to talk and try to reason with him. 3rd if he still will not listen it the becomes public knowledge. It is brought before the assembly and he is put out. This is the worst judgement because this is considered Yahweh's judgement on him. Many religions have taken the words. whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. These verses have given clergy the right they believe to dictate Yahweh's will as though they were him. Brothers this should not be. These are speaking of being brought into the family when you are washed. bound. Loosed is squelching the spirit being let go to whom Satan will now attach hoping and praying this brother will come back and not loose his place in the book of life. This is serious business between brothers in the faith. Then thier is the brother who looses faith and wanders off. We are told bringing him back will cover a multitude of yours/our sins. This type delusion yahshua spoke of is a brother that he see's as so important that he is to be considered Top priority in the Assembly to go after before he becomes worse than before he was washed. Then comes the outsider. we do not judge him at all. We love him. We be his friend as the stranger who was robbed on the road. We show mercy as Yahweh shows mercy on whoever he pleases. This is our faith to be true. Judgement starts at the House of Israel. If they barely can make it what is to become of the outsider. Your compassion to the stranger may be the seed or water that makes them grow on the good ground.Thier are many judgements for many circumstances.If you know to do good and do not do it. Then it is sin to you. An unwritten sin that the spirit of Hope is trying to show you.. Blessings..Miles Thanks miles! Peace! 
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Christians are told in gods word that if any so called brother is sining and dont want 2 stop, then that person is to be disfellowshiped, And to 'not even eat at the same table with that person'. christians are 2 use judgment, is it right or wrong 2 to steal?, u must use judgment, can anyone further explain the diff. between being a selfrightous self apointed judge of others, and using judgment about issues? I'm bias against murder, that is not a bad bias. Hope someone can explain it better than I. Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. Why don't you concentrate on these words? U will also be judged, Use just judgment? Dont hate or look down on someone for sining So that when u sin and do the same thing u wont be damed by ur own idea of what is just, I dont want justice, I need gods grace. Well stated! 
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to a certain point the fact that nonbelievers are so reluctant over christianity (even hateful sometimes) it's understandable for the way we (christians) have presented our beliefs. It’s not up to Christians to present their beliefs to anyone. There’s a book call the Bible that anyone can read. Christianity is a belief in the BOOK called the Bible! That’s all it is my friend. Period. Take the Bible out of the mix, and there is no Christianity because everything you know about the religion comes from that book. Christianity is a belief in the Bible. Period. That’s all it is. So it’s not a matter for so-called ‘Christians’ to present their beliefs properly. Anyone can read the Bible. I denounce the BOOK. I really couldn’t care less about your own personal interpretations of it. I read it for myself. Christians don’t own Christianity. Religions aren’t owned by people. Christianity is really no different from Greek mythology in this regard. There is a book called the Bible that contains the stories. Anyone can read them and decide for themselves what they want to think about the stories. I read it and it’s all about a God that solves problems using crude medieval methods of violence. The God in the Bible even had to send his son to be nailed on a cross. That’s a really CRUDE and violent solution to a problem. The book is all about a God that solves problems using very CRUDE blood and guts violence. So it really doesn’t matter what you think of the book or how you’ve tried to turn it around to mean something else. I read it and it’s all about a God who solves problems using violence. Not only are his methods violent, but they aren’t any better than mortal men were using at the time the stories were written. It’s about a God who isn’t any wiser than mortal men of the time. In fact, it’s about a God who is actually less wise than a lot of mortal men. That’s a fact! Just read the stories and see!!! I really don’t care what “Christians” think they believe. They didn’t invent the Bible. It’s been around for over 2000 years. It BELONGS to all of humanity, not just Christians who’d like to pretend that it says things that it doesn’t really say. The God in the Bible has a medieval mindset for solving problems with violence. Either that, it’s just a myth that was written by mortal men of that period of time. My guess is that the latter is true. I can’t believe that the creator of this universe has a permanent medieval mindset. No Christian is going to convince me otherwise. I read the book for myself! |
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You to Zapchaser wee seem to be thinking alike. Blessings of Shalom Brother..Miles
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Christians are told in gods word that if any so called brother is sining and dont want 2 stop, then that person is to be disfellowshiped, And to 'not even eat at the same table with that person'. christians are 2 use judgment, is it right or wrong 2 to steal?, u must use judgment, can anyone further explain the diff. between being a selfrightous self apointed judge of others, and using judgment about issues? I'm bias against murder, that is not a bad bias. Hope someone can explain it better than I. Are you referring to Luke 17:3,4? “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 “And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.” Or are you referring to Matthew 18? 15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 “But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within? God will judge those outside. "Purge the evil person from your midst." Ok the sentence before this still tells you clearly to "Judge Not" So which one are you going to follow? I use my judgment to decide not to go along with something bad someone is doing, But i cannot judge them as though im in gods place, If thay will be forgiven or not, When a fello christian who is held to a higher standard is doing something wrong they need to be called out on it, If they wont stop then we stone them. 1. We should all be held to a higher standard. 2. I need to move to the beach. Sandblasting isn't as painful as stoning.  
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to a certain point the fact that nonbelievers are so reluctant over christianity (even hateful sometimes) it's understandable for the way we (christians) have presented our beliefs. It’s not up to Christians to present their beliefs to anyone. There’s a book call the Bible that anyone can read. Christianity is a belief in the BOOK called the Bible! That’s all it is my friend. Period. Take the Bible out of the mix, and there is no Christianity because everything you know about the religion comes from that book. Christianity is a belief in the Bible. Period. That’s all it is. So it’s not a matter for so-called ‘Christians’ to present their beliefs properly. Anyone can read the Bible. I denounce the BOOK. I really couldn’t care less about your own personal interpretations of it. I read it for myself. Christians don’t own Christianity. Religions aren’t owned by people. Christianity is really no different from Greek mythology in this regard. There is a book called the Bible that contains the stories. Anyone can read them and decide for themselves what they want to think about the stories. I read it and it’s all about a God that solves problems using crude medieval methods of violence. The God in the Bible even had to send his son to be nailed on a cross. That’s a really CRUDE and violent solution to a problem. The book is all about a God that solves problems using very CRUDE blood and guts violence. So it really doesn’t matter what you think of the book or how you’ve tried to turn it around to mean something else. I read it and it’s all about a God who solves problems using violence. Not only are his methods violent, but they aren’t any better than mortal men were using at the time the stories were written. It’s about a God who isn’t any wiser than mortal men of the time. In fact, it’s about a God who is actually less wise than a lot of mortal men. That’s a fact! Just read the stories and see!!! I really don’t care what “Christians” think they believe. They didn’t invent the Bible. It’s been around for over 2000 years. It BELONGS to all of humanity, not just Christians who’d like to pretend that it says things that it doesn’t really say. The God in the Bible has a medieval mindset for solving problems with violence. Either that, it’s just a myth that was written by mortal men of that period of time. My guess is that the latter is true. I can’t believe that the creator of this universe has a permanent medieval mindset. No Christian is going to convince me otherwise. I read the book for myself! Ah abra, so much hate, so little time eh?
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Edited by
sethwyo
on
Sat 04/12/08 09:39 PM
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Christians are told in gods word that if any so called brother is sining and dont want 2 stop, then that person is to be disfellowshiped, And to 'not even eat at the same table with that person'. christians are 2 use judgment, is it right or wrong 2 to steal?, u must use judgment, can anyone further explain the diff. between being a selfrightous self apointed judge of others, and using judgment about issues? I'm bias against murder, that is not a bad bias. Hope someone can explain it better than I. I'm not a Christian it's not my book. I'm just pointing out the fact that the book contradicts itself. You can never know what you should do. As far as using one sentence you guys always come up with things like "yeah tho I walk through the valley of death" or "the lord is my shepherd I shall not want" I'm sure you won't mind if I use one sentence at a time. Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. Why don't you concentrate on these words? Why don't you read the next verse. You guys love to take one verse out of context...and THEN JUDGE. You tell us to not judge, but judge at the same time. What's the word for someone to judges others for a behavior he himself endulges in? I'm not a Christian. I was just pointing out that the book is very contradictory and hard to make heads or tails of. as far as using single sentences , I always hear "yeah tho I walk threw the valley of death" or "the lord is my shepeard..." Im sure you won't mind if I use sigle sentences in the same way. YES folks like 2 single sentence, the word looses its meaning this way, some people would mind if u use it the same way they do,If u dont make the some point thay do, A single sentence can be used to 'prove' many differnt things, U arnt a christian but u are being honest, I figure we all know folks who claim 2 be christian but arnt honest and twist the word for what they would like others to think/believe. |
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We do have to realize when Paul was speaking in his letter to the corith.. That Passover was upon them. The Feast of unleaven bread directly after. At Passover we our told if you take this blood and this body in an unworthy matter it will be held against you. Speaking of all maliuos we may have against anyone. Yahshua said in the sermon on the mount if you bring your gift to the alter and relize someone or you have not settled your differences to 1st go and make that right then come offer your gift.What a gift Yahshua gave us at Passover.With no malious against anyone. Forgive them father for they know not what they do. Pure Love. This is the rememberance of the Symbols of Yahshua. How he is bringing us to the promice land just as Yahshua the son of Nun did. Moses having only a look at the promice land. So putting this brother out is saving him at passover from committing a grave sin. As Heb. says trampling on the blood of Messiah.And all of us who take the emblems better take a good hard look at ourselves to get ready for the Feast that is not puffed up with pride but is Humbled as Moses was.Blessings..Miles
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Edited by
sethwyo
on
Sat 04/12/08 09:58 PM
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1. We should all be held to a higher standard. 2. I need to move to the beach. Sandblasting isn't as painful as stoning. I meant that christians are held to a higher standard than those who dont know, 2 him (or her)who knows better,it is sin. |
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Kaff kaff. Hack hack hack! (i hope u know im only joking about judging here) |
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Please do not take me wrong, of course sin and hell are realities that can't be overlooked. Sin is a term only defined by religious doctrine, and depending on the religion, it is defined many different ways and a very misunderstood term. I fail to agree that it is a "reality" that "can't be overlooked," But The word is meaningless to me. Hell, as understood by Christians, is an imaginary place, or a place believed to be located on the astral plane, or maybe underground in Africa somewhere, but you could describe Hell as mental anguish, or even this reality we currently live in if you want. Personally I have never been to Hell, but I do know people who claim they have, so I can't be sure it does not actually exist..somewhere. I do know that there is a town named Hell, and you can even go there by bus or car. (I think its in Michigan, but I don't think that is where all "sinners" are going.) But Sin and Hell are not generally considered "Realities" by people who do not live under religious doctrine, although we do know what you mean by these terms. |
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Matthew 18? 15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 “But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. I like how the Bible considers Tax Collectors to be the lowest scum on the earth next to "gentiles." Yet today, Christians pay their taxes faithfully and they are all "gentiles" and yet they still hold the Bible as their Holy word. That does not make any sense to me. JB |
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Kaff kaff. Hack hack hack! (i hope u know im only joking about judging here) I like to think that if Jesus had experienced the sheer pleasure of smoking a Monte Cristo or an Opus X with that new wine he made, he would have certainly adde the following to the last supper: This is my stogie. Smoke it because it is awesome. Don't go getting puritan on me folks, Jesus had a sense of humor too.
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Matthew 18? 15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 “But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. I like how the Bible considers Tax Collectors to be the lowest scum on the earth next to "gentiles." Yet today, Christians pay their taxes faithfully and they are all "gentiles" and yet they still hold the Bible as their Holy word. That does not make any sense to me. JB As I understand it the Jews are God's chosen as well as Christian Gntiles. As far as taxes go Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. 
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