Community > Posts By > Enkoodabaoo

 
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Tue 02/11/14 01:32 PM
Edited by Enkoodabaoo on Tue 02/11/14 01:39 PM


James Randerson, science correspondent


The Guardian, Thursday 4 May 2006



The universe is at least 986 billion years older than physicists thought and is probably much older still, according to a radical new theory.

The revolutionary study suggests that time did not begin with the big bang 14 billion years ago. This mammoth explosion which created all the matter we see around us, was just the most recent of many.

The standard big bang theory says the universe began with a massive explosion, but the new theory suggests it is a cyclic event that consists of repeating big bangs.

"People have inferred that time began then, but there really wasn't any reason for that inference," said Neil Turok, a theoretical physicist at the University of Cambridge, "What we are proposing is very radical. It's saying there was time before the big bang."

Under his theory, published today in the journal Science with Paul Steinhardt at Princeton University in New Jersey, the universe must be at least a trillion years old with many big bangs happening before our own. With each bang, the theory predicts that matter keeps on expanding and dissipating into infinite space before another horrendous blast of radiation and matter replenishes it. "I think it is much more likely to be far older than a trillion years though," said Prof Turok. "There doesn't have to be a beginning of time. According to our theory, the universe may be infinitely old and infinitely large."

Today most cosmologists believe the universe will carry on expanding until all the stars burn out, leaving nothing but their cold dead remains. But there is an inherent problem with this picture. The Cosmological Constant - a mysterious force first postulated by Albert Einstein that appears to be driving the galaxies apart - is much too small to fit the theory. Einstein later renounced it as his "biggest blunder".

The Cosmological Constant is a mathematical representation of the energy of empty space, also known as "dark energy", which exerts a kind of anti-gravity force pushing galaxies apart at an accelerating rate.

It happens to be a googol (1 followed by 100 zeroes) times smaller than would be expected if the universe was created in a single Big Bang. But its value could be explained if the universe was much, much older than most experts believe.

Mechanisms exist that would allow the Constant to decrease incrementally through time. But these processes would take so long that, according to the standard theory, all matter in the universe would totally dissipate in the meantime.

Turok and Steinhardt's theory is an alternative to another explanation called the "anthropic principle", which argues that the constant can have a range of values in different parts of the universe but that we happen to live in a region conducive to life.

"The anthropic explanations are very controversial and many people do not like them," said Alexander Vilenkin a professor of theoretical physics at Tufts University in Massachusetts. Rather than making precise predictions for features of the universe the anthropic principle gives a vague range of values so it is difficult for physicists to test, he added.

"It's absolutely terrible, it really is giving up," said Prof Turok, "It's saying that we are never going to understand the state of the universe. It just has to be that way for us to exist." His explanation by contrast is built up from first principles.

But if he's right, how long have we got until the next big bang? "We can't predict when it will happen with any precision - all we can say is it won't be within the next 10 billion years." Good job, because if we were around we would instantly disintegrate into massless particles of light.



Interesting. If this is true, how much more likely does it make God? That some entity which has existed for a trillion years is repeatedly creating universes over and over again.

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Tue 02/11/14 11:51 AM

Oh? Have you read the work of Lowen and Turner before rendering judgment?


I don't have time to read every book that comes along. When almost all historians recommend another historian's book be used as bird cage liner, I feel justified in skipping that one.


Many dislike reading anything that disagrees with what they want to believe


It seems that you do, but there is hope for you, since you are aware of that particular failing.


Oh? Have you discovered the LACK of mention of "god" and Christianity in the Constitution and Bill of Rights?


The founders based the Constitution on natural law, which is a philosophy based on Christianity. And the Lord is mentioned in the Constitution: "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the twelfth...."


Thanksgiving, as we envision it, is a MYTH. http://americanhistory.about.com/od/holidays/a/thanksgiving.htm
http://hnn.us/article/406


As you envision it, maybe. I know the truth of it. I know that it was Chief Massasoit's son who attacked the Pilgrims and the Pilgrims defended themselves. We see that in their diaries and in the public writings.

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Tue 02/11/14 11:13 AM

I will agree with you about our history books. Thankgiving was a trick. they gave them blankets to go back to thier tribes that had the small pox virus in them. I would like to go someday and Protest with the Indians at Plymouth Rock at thankgiving each year. never see the news cover that story


No it wasn't.

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Tue 02/11/14 11:12 AM

Try "Lies my Teacher Told Me" by James W. Lowen and "The Significance of the Frontier in American History" by Frederick Jackson Turner for viewpoints that differ from the homogenized / Europeanized views presented in standard / politically correct textbooks.

Lowen does an outstanding job of presenting a realistic view of American history (that is nothing like what we were taught -- and is well documented).


Total garbage. A quick search shows that most historians not just disagree but vehemently disagree with their theories. I'll stick with reading the facts for myself. Like reading the writings of the founding fathers, which describe their thought processes and inspirations.

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Tue 02/11/14 10:30 AM
Edited by Enkoodabaoo on Tue 02/11/14 10:43 AM

Biblical laws are what our nation is built upon.


Much of what this nation was built on was from Native Americans. The idea of democracy was far more evident in their societies than in European nations of that era.


You have absolutely got to be saying that to get a rise. Nobody who has ever studied history or even had a thought in their head could possibly think that.

The more I read this, the more convinced I get. If you really were a teacher, you would have to know that we know where the founding father's got their ideas and it was not the Native Americans.

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Tue 02/11/14 06:51 AM

God doesn't send anyone to hell.


I do not disagree; however, many believe that their favorite "god" provides a "hell" in an "afterlife" for "souls" of those who refuse to worship "him" and follow rules made by "priests" and "prophets."


Why in the hell did you feel the need to put so many words in quotes? What kind of damn thing is that to do?

"Hell" is what we call existence without God. If you reject God throughout life, He will not force Himself on you in the afterlife. Hell is life, but without joy, happiness or purpose. A level of misery, which would make a lake of fire seem appealing in comparison.


Christianity has only had one sacrifice, when God sacrificed His son for our sake.


Interesting conjecture. Is there any way to verify that it is true (more substantial than ancient folklore and texts promoting religion)?


Christianity only believes in one sacrifice, Jesus. Everybody knows that. Maybe you mean I should prove Jesus was Crucified? Well, most historians who have studied the subject agree that he was. Is that good enough for you?

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Tue 02/11/14 06:46 AM

Please tell me again about the great Era of Free Scientific Inquiry from the End of the Roman Empire up to the Renaissance,supported by the Church,until the Renaissance put Paid to it! laugh
Stop trying to sell that Revisionism!
The Church was a Millstone around the neck of Scientists,and it was only Islam,that for a while upheld Scientific Thought,until the Fanatics there also got the better of the more enlightened Leaders,and followed the Footsteps of the Catholic Church!


When was Giordano Bruno executed? 1616. When was Galileo put under house arrest? 1633. When was the Renaissance? Approximately 1250 - 1750. Oh no! Look at that. These two incidents happened right in the middle of the Renaissance.

From the fall of the Roman Empire until the early 1200's, Europe was under near constant attack by foreign invaders. The Vikings, The Huns, The Goth's, the Muslims, etc. It was when these small wars and invasions stopped that science started to progress. Science, which was embraced by the Catholic Church, I might add. The fall of Rome would have wiped out most, if not all Western scientific advancements, if not for the church preserving much of what had been written.

Show some respect for yourself and for the people around you and don't comment on subjects of which you know nothing. Educate yourself in the least!

Due to your lack of respect for the subject, the people who are reading and for me, I will no longer respond to your posts. A heartfelt apology will enable us to resume a conversation, but we both know that is not forth coming.

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Mon 02/10/14 10:17 PM

...His cosmological theories, which anticipated fundamental aspects of the modern conception of the universe, led to his excommunication by the Roman Catholic, Calvinist, and Lutheran churches.


Flatly untrue. He was excommunicated by the Catholic Church for rejecting the belief on the virginal birth and Mary's purity and for supporting the Arian heresy. He was excommunicated by the Calvinists for an article attacking a local philosopher, but was re-communicated later. Finally, he was excommunicated by a local Lutheran church for his ideas on the universality of salvation.

When you read what actual historians have to say about the guy, you find that he didn't contribute much of anything to science. You'll also find that we don't know why he was tried for heresy, but there is strong evidence that his support of Copernican beliefs was only mentioned as supporting evidence for the heresies.

Once again, I'm not defending the Catholic Church, they were wrong. But, the truth should be said, even in that case. The Catholic Church burned a man to death for his crazy ideas on religion, not because he was some great scientist.

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Mon 02/10/14 09:34 PM

Now now. Let's all get along.


Aren't you a sweet young thing. I was just joshin' with the young man. I would've used one of those smiley faces, but that's not my style.

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Mon 02/10/14 04:30 PM


Somewhere between 0 and none.


You don't know for sure that there aren't any people out there that would read this and think I'm evil for proposing this idea.

Even some religious people who might have had the same thought probably believed it was wrong or evil to think such things. These would be extremists in religious circles. But I know they are out there somewhere. lol


Do you often experience feelings of paranoia?

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Mon 02/10/14 04:29 PM

Santa is not said to send people to "hell" if they do not worship him


God doesn't send anyone to hell.


People do not hate and condemn each other over differences in Santa beliefs


Maybe not, but they do over which sports teams they support, where they were born, where they live, how much money they have, their skin color, their sexual preferences, etc. It seems to the rational mind that people don't need a lot to make them want to hate and condemn each other.


Wars are not caused by differences in Santa beliefs


Wars have been fought for all sorts of reasons. In the 20th century, more people were killed by Communism than all previous recorded wars combined. I suppose the point is similar to the previous answer, people are very willing to hate each other over insignificant differences.


Elaborate Palaces of Worship are not constructed for Santa


So?


Offerings collected for Santa are typically limited to cookies


And?


No sacrifices (animal or human) are made to Santa


Since you mentioned hell, I must assume you are talking about Christianity. Christianity has only had one sacrifice, when God sacrificed His son for our sake.


Santa believers do not generally consider themselves superior to those who do not believe or worship


People consider themselves superior to others by what they eat, how often they exercise, where they were born, their ancestors, etc. Why should religion be different?

What your objections come down to is this: You don't accept human nature. Human nature is to be divided and seek differences. Human nature is to hate and war and feel superior to each other. Religion is just another excuse some people use to feel this way. A little intellectual honest goes a long way.

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Mon 02/10/14 04:06 PM

So if we are all related because we all came from Adam and Eve then why aren't there more deformities and numerous other problems that come from so many years of inbreeding?


Relatedness

Your parents are 99.9% the same. You probably know that you receive half of your DNA or genes from each parent. So this means that you are 100% identical to each parent for each set of genes that you get from them. (Click here to learn why this isn't strictly true.)


We are all inbred.

Modern Human Diversity - Genetics

People today look remarkably diverse on the outside. But how much of this diversity is genetically encoded? How deep are these differences between human groups? First, compared with many other mammalian species, humans are genetically far less diverse – a counterintuitive finding, given our large population and worldwide distribution. For example, the subspecies of the chimpanzee that lives just in central Africa, Pan troglodytes troglodytes, has higher levels of diversity than do humans globally, and the genetic differentiation between the western (P. t. verus) and central (P. t. troglodytes) subspecies of chimpanzees is much greater than that between human populations.


In other words, there is more genetic diversity between related Chimpanzees than there is between a person from China and an African. Or pick any two races, still more genetic diversity between sibling chimpanzees in central Africa.


I kind of wonder how many religious people are reading this and thinking I am the anti-Christ. hahaha


Somewhere between 0 and none.

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Mon 02/10/14 02:04 PM

I have been dating an amazing man for 8 months. ...I want to become a couple.


You guys have been dating for 8 months, but you aren't a couple? Am I too old to get the lingo, because I'm not sure what you are now?

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Mon 02/10/14 01:53 PM
All this hullabaloo is to preserve a theory in Quantum mechanics. Maybe that theory is wrong and Einstein is correct. Hawking has gotten more reckless and attention seeking as the years go by.

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Mon 02/10/14 01:51 PM

Yes when a star dies the gravitational distortion left behind is called a black whole. We've never seen one, all we've seen is the absence of light which is part of how the THEORY of black holes came about. But since we lack the technology to actually go and study one, all we can do is use theory to attempt a rational explanation for what we see or don't see. My understanding is that the scientific community has not been able to prove definitively that they exist, or that they don't exist.


The theory has nothing to do with observations, Albert Einstein arrived at the theory before we had the ability to observe black holes.

They are as confirmed as just about anything we haven't experienced personally can be.

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Mon 02/10/14 01:49 PM

No one has ever seen or even documented a black hole with sensors, they are just theories.


There are three different methods used to identify a black hole.


Hawkings has a theory that Einsteins theory is wrong, that's all. Both of their theories are based on what we know so far, but neither can be proven or disproven.


Hawking hasn't released a hypothesis yet, he has offered no equations and very little detail.

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Mon 02/10/14 11:20 AM
Edited by Enkoodabaoo on Mon 02/10/14 11:25 AM




Then it simply makes you wrong on both counts.


I was only wrong in thinking that you could understand the obvious meaning of what I posted. Newton's writings on religion DO outnumber his writings on science.


like you said, to be a scientist back then, you had to be a part of the church and only give out the findings they allowed you... how many "scientists" were killled because they went against god/church?


Bruno!
Galilei had to recant,or he would have shared the same fate as Bruno!
Da Vinci would have been a Goner if the Church had discovered some of his Research!


Bruno was executed for being a monk and supporting heresy, there is no indication that he was executed for his scientific research. How do you know that about Da Vinci? You don't, you just made it up.

If your position is so weak that you have to lie and make up claims out of whole cloth, why do you continue to believe?

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Mon 02/10/14 10:30 AM
Edited by Enkoodabaoo on Mon 02/10/14 10:41 AM



Then it simply makes you wrong on both counts.


I was only wrong in thinking that you could understand the obvious meaning of what I posted. Newton's writings on religion DO outnumber his writings on science.


like you said, to be a scientist back then, you had to be a part of the church and only give out the findings they allowed you... how many "scientists" were killled because they went against god/church?


I just reread your post. I never said any such thing. I said for the majority of Western history, Theology was called the "Queen of the Sciences". People who studied science almost always also studied theology. That doesn't mean they were forced to or were force to avoid certain fields of study.

I'm not here to defend the Catholic Church, they did plenty of wrong. But I don't think you have any place trying to somehow read Newton's dead mind and come to the conclusion that he was a Christian only because the church forced him to be. There were plenty of scientists who pursued their studies unmolested by the church throughout the middle ages. To suggest otherwise is to reject accepted history. You need to try to understand this: There are some atheists who hold the belief that "if we are right, everyone else must be evil" and they make stuff up. The Catholic Churches' persecution of scientists boils down to Galileo and Giordano Bruno, who was burned for heresy not his work in the field of science. I'm not excusing his murder, they were wrong to do it, but imprisoning one person for 8 years and executing another doesn't build this giant conspiracy of scientific suppression to which you and other atheists fervently believe.

It's possible for you to be right that God doesn't exist AND for Christianity to be compatible and favorable to science. There is no need to make up false history or believe other people's lies about history.

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Mon 02/10/14 09:55 AM
Edited by Enkoodabaoo on Mon 02/10/14 10:05 AM


The supernatural created the natural, therefore the Book of Genesis can be taken as historical. I don't agree with Campbell, I feel that comparative mythology has been thoroughly debunked.


lol, i think the supernatural scientists are called "ghostbusters"...


I made no mention of "supernatural scientists", such a person would be a contradiction in terms. The fact that you even think such a person could exist shows how little you understand the subject.

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Mon 02/10/14 09:53 AM
Edited by Enkoodabaoo on Mon 02/10/14 09:57 AM

Then it simply makes you wrong on both counts.


I was only wrong in thinking that you could understand the obvious meaning of what I posted. Newton's writings on religion DO outnumber his writings on science.