Too bad we cant find evidence for adam and eve, but we find evidence that species evolved.

Looks like you worship a book of lies. Lucky for you, delusional humans number in the billions so youre one of the herd.

Some people do good for a god, some do good because they are nice.

If you have the ability to do good without a god story or a tree around your neck, then why do you only worship the god story and not have a tree around your neck?

Maybe you need a book to be good? Do you need a book to help you wipe your ***, or just to help you stay in line?

Why do you worship the characters in the bible?

1) You spent many hours researching all religious books and decided that a genocidal flood makes the most sense.

2) You were born in a country, state, city, neighborhood, or house that worshiped a human lamb chop on a cross story?


Once you realize you didnt do any research, and its all about where you were born, you should realize how stupid it is to think there is a god that takes our sides in wars :)

The traditional view that Jesus’s disciple John wrote the Book of Revelation was questioned as early as the third century. Christian writer Dionysus of Alexandria, using the critical methods still employed by modern scholars, spotted the difference between the elegant Greek of John’s gospel and the crudely ungrammatical prose of Revelation. The works could not have been written by the same person.

Dionysus noted that the John of Revelation identifies himself in the work, while the John of the gospel does not. He argued that the two men simply shared the same name.

Contemporary scholars have added their own insights into the problem. It is now theorized that the real author was a Jew who opposed the Pauline version of Christianity, with its Gentile elements and Torah-free salvation. The author calls a Pauline church in Smyrna a “synagogue of Satan” and a female leader of another in Thyatira “Jezebel.” In short, he was not someone we would call Christian today.

In fact, Revelation might have been originally written even before Christianity. References to Jesus Christ would then have been inserted only later to Christianize the document. These are mostly clustered around chapters 1 and 22, with just a scattering elsewhere. Surprisingly, these verses can be removed without disturbing the structure and flow of the surrounding verses, keeping the meaning and sense of the text intact. This suggests that the original Book of Revelation had nothing at all to do with Jesus.

You all might have been had!

http://listverse.com/2014/09/08/10-theories-about-who-really-wrote-the-bible/

John Did Not Write Revelation

I never said "only 32% of the world population see's Israel as a Holy land", so it's not mine to prove.

I DID say "only 32% of the world's population is Christian".

http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/number-of-christians-rises-but-their-share-of-world-population-stays-stable/


In an earlier post, I indicated which of the world's 12 major religions do NOT see Jerusalem/Israel as their Holy Land. Since you do not believe me, feel free to Google "Holy Land of ____" filling in the name of the religion and see for yourself. You will find that what I posted was accurate.



You're welcome; I have provided the proof that you asked for, for me to prove MY stance is valid.


Could you now provide proof of YOUR assessment that all of the Middle East, all of Europe and "all of the America's does" hold Jerusalem as sacred and holy, per the Prophet?

If the proof was actually factual, that would be a correct conclusion to draw.

32% of the world's population is NOT "the world".

Recognizing "JC" as "a profit" (Freudian?) does NOT the Son of God make. Once a religion demotes "JC" to "a profit", He is no longer the central figure of their faith.

I already listed the Holy Places of the 12 major religions that 68% of the world's population recognize; Israel is the Holiest of places to many...Jerusalem (which is within Israel) is even fewer.


Factually-speaking, of course. There is no accounting for what others' faith dictates is true.

There are several Holy Lands throughout the planet, depending on who's telling the story. Out of the 12 main religions on the planet, only Baha'i (Holy Place: Bahji, near Acre, Israel), Christianity (Jerusalem), and Confucianism (no ONE holy place - it is your home's altar and wherever your family's burial tomb is located), recognize Jesus as the Son of God.

ONLY 32% of the world's population is "Christian"; that means 68% of the world does NOT believe Jesus is the Son of God, born of a Virgin Mary, and sent here to wipe away our sins...and is the ONLY path TO God. Yes, that means each Sunday when you gather at church with others who believe just as you do so therefore 'you know you're right, dammit!!!' because 100% of those around you agree with you,

the majority of the world *knows* you're wrong.


Buddhists (whose Holiest places are in the Gangetic plains of Northern India and Southern Nepal), Hindus (Rishikesh, India), Muslims (ALL of Israel, not JUST Jerusalem), Jainism (Mount Shatrunjaya, India), Judaism (Israel), Shinto (Japan), Sikhism (Punjab, India), Taoism (Northeast China), and Zoroastrianism (Balkh, Northern Afghanistan) do NOT recognize Jesus as the Son of God (though they MAY recognize him as a holy man).


People fight over what their culture and their heritage tells them is important; if enough people believe the Magic 8 ball really DOES predict the future and there was only one left on earth, there'd be "Holy Wars" over Its possession, too.




For anyone interested in more information, you might find (the beginning part of) the film 'Zeitgeist' interesting viewing. Extremely provocative and conclusive evidence to the question: "Did God make Man or did Man make God?" can be found in it...especially when presenting how the 5 main world religions all appeared at the same time, telling the same story (but using different names), on the (original) 5 separate continents.

Of course, it COULD be that the whole world saw the same thing at the same time and the reason for the same story but with different players is the difference in languages, so there really IS a God...


...or it COULD be that, in the eons-long human brain's natural development, it becomes *necessary* for us to have a back-story of our creation and of a God.

If Jesus Never Existed, Religion May Be Fiction
Posted: 09/25/2014 5:29 pm EDT Updated: 1 hour ago
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As someone raised in a Christian country, I learned that there was a historical Jesus. Now historical analysis finds no clear evidence that Jesus existed. If not, Christianity was fabricated, just like Mormonism and other religions. Why do people choose to believe religious fictions?

Given the depth of religious tradition in Christian countries, where the "Christian era" calendar is based upon the presumed life of Jesus, it would be astonishing if there was no evidence of a historical Jesus. After all, in an era when there were scores of messianic prophets, why go to the trouble of making one up?

In History, Jesus Was a No Show
Various historical scholars attempted to authenticate Jesus in the historical record, particularly in the work of Jesus-era writers. Michael Paulkovich revived this project as summarized in the current issue of Free Inquiry.

Paulkovich found an astonishing absence of evidence for the existence of Jesus in history. "Historian Flavius Josephus published his Jewish Wars circa 95 CE. He had lived in Japhia, one mile from Nazareth - yet Josephus seems unaware of both Nazareth and Jesus." He is at pains to discredit interpolations in this work that "made him appear to write of Jesus when he did not." Most religious historians take a more nuanced view agreeing that Christian scholars added their own pieces much later but maintaining that the historical reference to Jesus was present in the original. Yet, a fudged text is not compelling evidence for anything.

Paulkovich consulted no fewer than 126 historians (including Josephus) who lived in the period and ought to have been aware of Jesus if he had existed and performed the miracles that supposedly drew a great deal of popular attention. Of the 126 writers who should have written about Jesus, not a single one did so (if one accepts Paulkovich's view that the Jesus references in Josephus are interpolated).

Paulkovich concludes:

When I consider those 126 writers, all of whom should have heard of Jesus but did not - and Paul and Marcion and Athenagoras and Matthew with a tetralogy of opposing Christs, the silence from Qumram and Nazareth and Bethlehem, conflicting Bible stories, and so many other mysteries and omissions - I must conclude that Christ is a mythical character.
He also considers striking similarities of Jesus to other God-sons such as Mithra, Sandan, Attis, and Horus. Christianity has its own imitator. Mormonism was heavily influenced by the Bible from which founder Joseph Smith borrowed liberally.

Mormonism fabricated in plain sight
We may not know for sure what happened two millennia ago but Mormonism was fabricated in plain sight by a convicted conman. According to Christopher Hitchens:

In March, 1826, a court in Bainbridge, New York, convicted a twenty-one-year-old man of being a "disorderly person and an impostor." That ought to have been all we ever heard of Joseph Smith, who at trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad gold-digging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or "necromantic" powers.
Hitchens writes: "Quite recent scholarship has exposed every single other Mormon "document" as at best a scrawny compromise and at worst a pitiful fake" ...

Smith's legacy was cleaned up via subsequent "divine revelations" that rejected first polygamy and then racism at convenient historical turning points. So the historical development from fakery to respectable religion is well documented.

There is no reason to believe that the genesis of any major religion was substantially different. This raises the question of why so many intelligent people choose to believe religious fictions.

The most plausible explanation is that they cannot easily distinguish between organized religion and confidence rackets.

Starting a fake religion

Religious people may find that hard to swallow, so it is interesting to see what happens when someone sets out to found a fake religion. Would this work, or would members see through the deception and promptly leave?

American Indian film director Vikram Gandhi studied yogis and their followers in India. He concluded that these holy men were confidence tricksters, scores of whom plied their trade throughout India in the manner of the Jesus story.

The filmmaker wondered whether he could pass himself off as a guru here in the U.S. He cultivated a fake Indian accent, grew out his hair and beard and reinvented himself as Sri Kumare, a mystic hailing from a fictitious Indian village.

In the film, Kumare (2011) the director founds his cult in Arizona where he unloads his bogus mysticism upon the unsuspecting public and soon draws a group of devoted followers who seek his counsel on their life problems and become frighteningly dependent upon his new-age advice.

The underlying psychology may be fairly simple. Common confidence tricksters work their magic by telling victims what they want to hear. The same is true of successful prophets who offer pie in the sky bye and bye as I explain in my book Why Atheism Will Replace Religion. The only reason that Jesus does not fit in this category is that he probably never existed.

Actually, studies have shown that as societies move from agriculture to industry, child birth goes down as not as many hands are needed to produce the product.

Studies have also shown that the more education the parents have, the less children they will have.


While I'm sure the studies focused mostly on the U.S. system of capitalism, the same justifications for WHY it is should hold true within other economic systems...at least according to the U.N.


http://www.geography.hunter.cuny.edu/~tbw/ncc/Notes/Chapter6.pop/chapter.6.what.factors.affect.birth.fertility.rates.outline.html

Ahhhh...I'm not familiar with it being called "DFS"; here, it's "CPS"..."Child Protective Services".


Again, when I read the story, I didn't 'get' that ANYone was telling her to get a divorce; she went to the Shelter for protection and for assistance in filing a protective order against her husband. The worker rightfully informed her that judges won't typically sign protective orders if there is no abuse or threat of abuse.

Many people believe that it's only abuse if it leaves black eyes and/or broken bones. As a society, we've determined it's much more than that. The Wheel was designed to assist victims - both male and female - to determine if they are - in fact - being abused, even though they haven't ended up in the hospital,


yet.


I 'got' from the author that when being informed of what abuse IS, she came to the conclusion that her abuse and torment wasn't suffered at the hands of her husband; her abusive relationship was with Jesus and her religion, and they used her husband TO mete out the abuse and torment.


HER view...HER opinion. SHE lived it; I'm simply reading about it. I'm not saying if she's right or wrong...though she articulates well, so I'm confident she's right about how she felt about it.

I'm glad she took the necessary steps to put an end to her abuse and torment and that she's started a service to help others who are/were in her same situation and feel/felt similarly.



My personal belief? If a man does ANYthing to abuse me, whether he leaves physical marks or not, I'm out of there. I don't need a society, religion, or a shelter telling me what my options are or "encouraging (me) to leave and break up a family".


HE already did that, all on his own, by abusing someone he "loves". He "loves" his kids, too...and once he's shown what he's capable of doing in the name of "Love",


I'm out.

But, hey...that's just ME. I'm not saying EVERYone should handle it the way I do; I understand others are made of different stuff and have different priorities in - and different needs of - this world.

It is no coincidence that our laws *say* the same things our religious teachings do; the best way TO control a people is to ensure they'll do what you want logically (via 'laws') OR in a heart-felt manner (via 'religion'); if you can create a law-abiding, God-fearing citizenry, well...that's simply hitting a home-run.





Not sure how Distributed File Systems ("DFS") fit into all of that, so I can't address it.

That's not what I read at all. According to the actual author (Ms. Garrison), due to her indoctrination in her religion, she wasn't able to discern if she was being "abused" or not, as what she experienced what "just the way things are...and the way God wants them".

One of the tricks of those who engage in Domestic Abuse IS to control the thoughts and mind of the other - and to make them question which end is 'up'.

Ms. Garrison came to realize she wasn't in an abusive relationship with her husband...she was in an abusive one with her Creator and His Son.




In HER mind, the trappings of her religious faith used the tactics referenced on the Power and Control Wheel...leaving the abusive relationship (with her Church) meant leaving her husband, as he can't be married to a non-believer.

Escape from Duggarville: How playing the good Christian housewife almost killed me
AlterNet
20 Sep 2014




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Vyckie Garrison was once a minor celebrity in the Quiverfull Movement, made famous by TV’s Duggar family. As a devout, Bible-believing Christian and the mother of seven homeschooled children, Garrison spent 16 years, with her husband, publishing a newspaper for families on a similar path. Today, via a website called No Longer Quivering, she publishes resources for women leaving the movement. Recently she addressed American Atheists about her experience. This article is an abridged version of her remarks.

Whenever I talk about my escape from the Quiverfull movement, Christians immediately dismiss my experience by saying, “Your problem was not with Jesus or Christianity. Your problem was that you were following an extreme, legalistic cult. Let me tell you about my personal relationship with Jesus.” It can be extremely frustrating. I was in a close, personal relationship with Jesus for over 25 years. But rather than telling you about the beginning of my relationship with this man, I am going to spare you the long story and skip straight to the break up.

The end of my life as a “Bride of Christ” came after a visit to Bright Horizons, which is the local domestic violence shelter in my hometown of Norfolk, Nebraska. I went there for help in filing a restraining order against my husband, whose emotional and mental abuse against me and my children had escalated to the point that I was in the midst of a complete mental and physical breakdown. He had taken 6 of our 7 children to a town three hours from our home and was preventing me from having any contact with them unless I agreed to his terms for our “reconciliation.”





At the women’s shelter, I was given a form to complete … I wrote three pages describing the situation in our home, and after reading what I had written, the crisis volunteer said to me, “The judge will not grant you a protection order unless you actually accuse your husband of abuse.”

I told her that I didn’t really think my husband was “technically” abusive, and in fact, I had no doubt that he truly loved me and the kids. He always put us first … he basically centered his entire life around us! We were a good Christian family. The Bible commands husbands to “love your wives as Christ loved the church.” That’s the sort of godly man I was married to: a true patriarch who ruled his home according to God’s principles for marriage and family.

We had studied the Bible carefully, and knew so much about “Biblical Family Values,” that we felt qualified to teach others via our “Pro-life, Pro-family” Christian newspaper, The Nebraska Family Times. In 2003, we were named “Nebraska Family of the Year” by the Nebraska Family Council … and this was in recognition of our work to help get DOMA (the Defense of Marriage Act) passed in Nebraska. That’s not something that I’m at all proud of these days, but at the time, being named “Family of the Year” was enough to convince me that we were on the right track so far as marriage and family goes. I had become somewhat of a leader in what is now called “the Quiverfull movement” – Christian fundamentalist families who are dedicated to actually living out the biblical model for marriage and family in their daily lives.

Probably the most recognizable and influential Quiverfull family in America is reality TV’s Duggar Family of “Way Too Many and Counting” fame. But unlike fundamentalist Mormons who tend to congregate in just a few places in Utah, Arizona, Texas, etc., you will find Quiverfull families in nearly all types of churches in every community. This is because Quiverfull is not a denomination, with a creed to sign and a church to join. And it’s not technically a cult in the strict sense of having one central leader … instead, Quiverfull is a mindset (a very powerful head trip) in which each family becomes a cult unto itself with Daddy enshrined as the supreme Patriarch.



Based on a literalist interpretation of Psalm 127, Quiverfull families eschew all forms of birth control. They have a high regard for the patriarchal family structure found in the Old Testament which emphasizes hierarchy, authority, and strict gender roles for men, women, boys, and girls.

The reason you can find Quiverfull families in nearly every type of Christian congregation is because Quiverfull beliefs are not actually a radical departure from traditional Christian teachings regarding marriage and family. It is my contention that Quiverfull IS regular Christianity writ large … lived out to its logical conclusion.

As Quiverull believers, my husband and I proudly embraced the ideal of biblical headship and submission. We believed, as the Bible teaches, that it is the man who is ultimately responsible for the spiritual well-being of his wife and children, and who must one day stand before his Maker and give an account. My husband understood this, and he took it very seriously … which is why he tried SO hard to be a loving, godly patriarch.

“So,” the woman at the domestic violence shelter asked me, “if he’s such a great, loving husband and father, what are you doing here? Why do you need a protection order?”

I tried to explain that, for some reason, despite how hard we were both trying to live according to Christian principles, our home had become an oppressive, miserable place in which none of us were happy, and it felt like we were all losing our minds. The problem was, everything I knew about relationships had been so completely redefined by Christian teachings that I did not have the language to name the abuse.



So I went to therapy. One of the first things Deb, my counselor, showed me was a “Power and Control Wheel” which is a tool for helping abuse victims identify ways in which they are being manipulated, exploited, mistreated and enslaved.





As Deb went over each aspect of the Power & Control wheel, I began to realize that, yes, of course, all of these elements were present in my marriage … it’s just that we had different names for these things … we had chapter and verse to teach us that power and control is actually good and godly. We called it “Agape Love” – it’s the kind of love which God has for His creation …this was the relationship we were supposed to use as our model between husband and wife.



For instance: the signs of emotional abuse include put downs, shaming, and guilt-tripping. Well, this is something my husband would never do … there really was no need since I was already fully aware of my inherently sinful nature, my “desperately wicked heart,” … He didn’t need to remind me that even my very best efforts were like filthy rags in comparison to God’s holiness.

Plus, I knew that as a woman, I was particularly susceptible to deception by Satan. How many times, when we were discussing an important decision, had my husband said to me, “What you are suggesting SOUNDS reasonable, but how do I know that Satan isn’t using you to deceive me?”

Well, according to the Bible, it was very likely that Satan WAS using me “And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through child-bearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. (1 Timothy 2:14-15… As a good Christian woman, the last thing I wanted was to be accused of having a “Jezebel Spirit”!! Jezebel is the bossy, bold and dominating woman, who ‘wears the pants’ in the family, and in the Bible account, things ended badly for her: “’Throw her down’Jehu said. So they threw her down and some of her blood spattered the wall and the horses as they trampled her underfoot.” (2 Kings 9:33)



Intimidation creates fear … but how can fear be a bad thing when, “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom?” Was I afraid of my husband? Not in a physical sense, but I was always hesitant to contradict or “disrespect” him because God had placed him in authority over me, and God-given authorities can be considered “umbrellas of protection.”

Patriarchy is God’s umbrella of protection. By honoring and submitting to their husbands, wives receive the privileges of their spiritual protection. If a wife resists her husband’s instructions, she forfeits her place under his protection – not just for herself, but for also for her children.



My husband didn’t intentionally isolate me and the children … it just kind of happened as a logical progression of our decision to live radically for Jesus. First, I dropped out of college and quit my job in order to be a “keeper at home” as the Bible commands. Then we cut out all meaningful associations with unbelievers, and most of our extended family who didn’t share our dedication to righteous living.

We taught our kids at home to protect them from the evil influence of godless humanism which we believed was the religion taught in the “government schools.” We eventually got to the point where we were so “biblical” that we felt the local Independent Fundamental Baptist church in our town was too liberal, too compromising … so we began homechurching with a couple of “like-minded” families who also were leaving their family planning up to God and homeschooling their many children.



Minimizing, denying, and blaming … this one was obvious to me, because IN LIGHT OF ETERNITY, whatever suffering or adversity I might encounter as a result of our commitment to live according to biblical principles were merely “light and momentary afflictions.” Sure there were times when submitting to my husband’s decisions was a hassle, and yes, the pregnancies nearly killed me every time, BUT … who was I to complain, considering everything that Jesus had done for me? If I thought “almost” dying was bad, just imagine how horrible it was for Jesus, who actually died!! Motherhood was my mission field. Missionaries often risk their lives in order to spread the Gospel. And just like the missionaries, if I died in childbirth, in Heaven, I would wear a Martyr’s Crown.



“Using children” didn’t really ring true to me. Everyone knows “Jesus love the little children” and the whole reason we were knocking ourselves out to follow the biblical model for marriage and family was in order to create a safe, loving home for our children, so no … I told Deb, “Using children? I don’t think that one really applies.”

… oh, except the part where using any form of birth control was tantamount to playing God, so I was kept perpetually pregnant or nursing, or both for more than 11 years. That verse in Psalm 127 says, “Blessed is the MAN who has his quiver full of them” … and it goes on to say,”he shall not be ashamed, but will speak with the enemies in the gates.” We were taught that in Bible times, the city gate was the place where male leaders made decisions regarding local government.

So this was about political domination. The whole point of having a quiver full of babies is to … out-populate the “enemy,” … that would be all of you; and to shoot those many arrows “straight into the heart of the enemy.” And by that, we meant that our children would grow up to be leaders in all the major institutions of our society. This was our plan for taking back America for God. So the children were like arrows (which is the ammunition) in God’s holy war. So, yeah … “using children” … definitely put a great big checkmark by that one.

Oh … and for those who are curious, but too polite to ask what it is like for these Quiverfull wives who are breeding like rabbits, I have a little story for you. A guy bunny meets a lady bunny in the field, and he says to her, “This won’t take long, did it?” (My kids hate it when I tell that joke. They say that it’s TMI.)



I wouldn’t say that my husband used male privilege to control and dominate me and the kids. Male privilege was his rightful position. As Paul says in the book of 1 Corinthians, “For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. And man was not created for woman, but woman for man.

Biblical marriage is supposed to be a living portrait of the relationship between Jesus and the church, the “Bride of Christ.” Jesus has all power, all authority which is given to him by HIS Father (the same way power and authority are given by God to earthly fathers).

… So even though I’d heard that “absolute power corrupts absolutely,” I couldn’t believe that God-ordained authority could be abused because “Greater love has no man than this: that he lay down his life for a friend.” Jesus had that perfect love … He was a “servant-leader” …. and husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loves the Church, right?

We believed that while men were “privileged” with greater authority, they also were burdened with ultimate responsibility … so a woman’s absolute dependence was really more of a hardship for the man than for the ones over whom he held God-ordained dominion.



Economic abuse? Well sure, money was always tight, but hey, finances were no picnic for my husband either, and besides, we had these promises …

My God will supply all my needs,” and “I have never seen a righteous man forsaken or his children begging for bread” … It was really just a matter of trust, plus careful money management.



God always provided for us financially … like the time He led me to deliver my 5th baby at home with just a midwife …. never mind that homebirth was insanely risky considering the health issues which led to my first four babies being delivered by c-section … the baby and I both survived … and we saved a ton of money.

What could possibly make more sense than God’s financial plan?



Coercion and threats … “No,” I told Deb, “he never threatened me.” I *willinging* went along with all the harsh demands of the Quiverfull lifestyle, and in many instances, I was the one who pushed patriarchy and headship ON HIM. Why would I do that?

Because I believed our family had an ENEMY who was determined to steal, kill, and destroy our souls, and the souls of our children, for all eternity! Our only protection from spiritual disaster, was within that one little secret spot of safety which Corrie ten Boom called, “The Hiding Place.” “The Hiding Place” isn’t any physical location … instead, it is a very specific, very narrow position … directly in the center of God’s will. There, and only there, we could safely trust in God’s protection.

He never had to raise his voice to keep me and the children in our place. And when he did raise his voice, well that was “speaking the truth in love.” When he constantly criticized and complained about all the ways in which the children and I failed to live up to God’s perfect standards, he was “hating the sin, but loving the sinner.” He didn’t have to brandish a weapon in order to control our every action, indeed even our thoughts and feelings. All he had to do was fulfill his God-appointed role of Patriarch; to love us as Christ loves the church.

After going through all the points on the Power and Control wheel, I was ready to admit that, yes, I was in an abusive relationship. I told my counselor, “I want out!”

Deb said me, “You have to protect yourself and your children! You need to divorce this man!”

She was talking about my husband, and I was thinking, “Well, yeah … him, too.”

I did file for divorce and rescue myself and my kids from the tyranny of patriarchy. But for me, the primary break up was with Jesus. You see, being in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is a set up for dysfunctional game-playing and crazy-making head trips. According to Christianity, Jesus subjected himself to torture and death, so that we could have the “free gift” of eternal life … and by “free,” he means, it’s only going to cost you everything you have and everything you are.

When the very definition of perfect love is sacrificing your children and martyring yourself, there is no place for emotionally healthy concepts like boundaries, consent, equality, and mutuality. I could not say that my husband’s patriarchal behavior was abusive so long as I was committed to a relationship with “The Big Guy” who exemplifies the abusive bully, and who commands his followers to imitate His very warped and twisted idea of “love.”

I started a blog, No Longer Quivering, as a way to process my Quiverfull life and try to understand how I’d come to embrace such a fanatical lifestyle. The response was surprisingly phenomenal and over time, NLQ has grown to into something like a movement of women escaping and healing from spiritual abuse. There are now dozens of former fundamentalist women (and a few men) who are sharing their stories, and many of the kids who were raised in these homes have started their own blogs, including Libby Anne, who runs the amazing, Love, Joy, Feminism site on Patheos. Getting out is extremely hard. Leaving an abusive relationship is challenge enough, and when you have half a dozen or more kids, no marketable job skills … BUT, Quiverfull women are already used to doing the impossible, so when it comes to rescuing themselves and their children, “extremely hard” feels like a relief!

[Editor’s note: Vyckie doesn’t say so, but in contrast to publishing resources for Quiverfull families, publishing for women in recovery doesn’t pay. Some of the women at No Longer Quivering recently launched a fundraiser to keep Vyckie from losing her house.]

Some Quiverfull kids are making the break, too. Growing up in a Quiverfull home means being raised by a narcissistic father and having a mother with a huge martyr complex. The kids are treated as property to be hoarded. They are isolated, coerced and manipulated, abused and deprived socially and educationally. As surrogate moms, the older daughters bear the brunt of the work: cleaning, cooking … even homeschooling and disciplining their younger siblings when the Quiverfull mothers become too worn down and burned out from perpetual pregnancy and trying to keep up with this unsustainable lifestyle.

When they finally encounter the “real world,” these kids are pissed. They feel ripped off … and rightfully so. The backlash is awesome to witness as they’ve channeled their anger into activism and begun to fight back with their own websites such as Homeschoolers Anonymous and Homeschooling’s Invisible Children. All of these sites are linked at No Longer Quivering and I encourage you to check them out.

Note: Credit for the original Power and Control Wheel goes to Domestic Abuse Intervention Programs in Duluth,

Women are special/mysterious because as it is said even God doesn't know what is in their mind.

I have been impressed with how they organize for charity and how they support their own community as well.

Those I have spoken to have seemed very well mannered and caring.