But my little parkouring electrons are the physical manifestation of thought. Though that needn't necessarily be thought itself.

I said to disregard it because it seemed like there is some fatal flaw in how I used the word work. But it seems as if you continued where my mind went "well, I'm f*cked."

By increasing efficiency, the same answer can be achieved. I think I was trying to say that the energy to get to the end should be the same. Point A- How many apples. Point B- 9. Where both points are the same on a graph, logic would dictate that somehow, one of the lines between the two would have to be longer. Which I think may be me somehow implying that thought forms in the second dimension, since this is the only way that one can perceive the lines to be both the same length, and have the one still be longer than the other. Your perspective just has to be rotated to see the differences.

Haha. I didn't mean to imply anything, but I'm up for running with that standpoint. Maybe that's why I don't eat a ton.



Oh, the wonderful power of intent. And actually, that ties in with one of what I assumed were my bigger points. Gravity. Intent (as far as I can see it) is a mental manifestation of gravity. That's why the whole "I am going to lead a happy and fulfilled life" repetition comes in. Your happy thoughts are pulling in happy circumstances. It's like a subconscious communication with others. People can actually feel your intent, whether they know it or not, and sometimes whether you want them to or not. I would be willing to assume that the guilty people were more often able to pick up on this vibe, because they expect to be caught.

So just tack one on to the number of potential choices.



Ahrg. I'm so close to agreeing with you as far as that goes. Except that making a choice should dictate a relevant action from the chooser, if said chooser desires to express his/her will. If we were to call it free-thought, I would absolutely agree with you.

As it is, I have to define free-will as the freedom to enact a choice. Because you can choose to believe all kinds of things, but belief doesn't make it so.

Very, very well put though.

Einstein didn't like quantum physics because it requires "Spooky action at a distance." I have made tofu taste like sausage. New age energy is science. It's old school science. You think that herbs and stones got their attributive qualities from somebody going... "We'll call that one protection!"? They tried different things for different applications. Part of being a witch is being a good record-keeper.

But I feel for you Bushido. Playing Devil's Advocate is hard work. I like it because I usually try to get people to see what I've seen. The best lesson is one that you learn yourself.

I have to agree with Plato as far as the concept of doctoring goes...



He also later says that if someone has an incurable disease, it is unethical and immoral to subjugate them to all kinds of treatments and operations in order to keep them alive. That a doctor should let them go and die a natural death.

ATP is the fuel that the body uses. It's what food and what-not gets broken down to. Cells in the body too when it runs out of other viable energy source.

Now, with all that d*mn catching up out of the way: Gravity.

Gravity, my dear friends, is hypothetical. At least if you want to understand what causes it. We have theoretical gravitrons, but that's about it. The only cause of gravity that science can give us is that "sh*t draws more sh*t."

New-agers could have told you that one, and we'd all be in agreement... except that who thought that such supposedly BS ideas could be applied to the physical realm that we know of. Now I know I'll probably get the "if I drop something, it always falls" argument, so let's just skip that and go to me asking you why it falls.

Also; Energy -

1. the capacity for vigorous activity; available power: I eat chocolate to get quick energy.
2. an adequate or abundant amount of such power: I seem to have no energy these days.
3. Often, energies. a feeling of tension caused or seeming to be caused by an excess of such power: to work off one's energies at tennis.
4. an exertion of such power: She plays tennis with great energy.
5. the habit of vigorous activity; vigor as a characteristic: Foreigners both admire and laugh at American energy.
6. the ability to act, lead others, effect, etc., forcefully.
7. forcefulness of expression: a writing style abounding with energy.
8. Physics. the capacity to do work; the property of a system that diminishes when the system does work on any other system, by an amount equal to the work so done; potential energy. Symbol: E
9. any source of usable power, as fossil fuel, electricity, or solar radiation.

If we're going to argue a word, let's define it first. If you want to stick with the application of Physics there BBC, that's fine. I'll try and beat you to the punch. Hope you don't mind if I go all mystical on your *ss.

A thought, which has little energy in and of itself (I'll probably catch flack from Sky for this one) since it's just a few electrons jumping gaps in your brain, has the potential to require 1 billion times more energy. There's no place for E=mc(squared) in the brain. To make a simple equivalent, let's say that you give me three buckets, each with three apples in it. You ask me how many apples you gave me. If I don't know multiplication, I'd have go go over and count them, 1 to 9. As it is, I could not move, ask you if you think I'm stupid, and reluctantly answer 9. Counting E > Multiplication tables E. Yet the same work was done. Work not meaning effort, work meaning from query to solution. (If you want to disregard all that, go ahead. I think I might be doing a whole from it's parts or vice versa fallacy, but let's not get too into those.)

While I'm at it, it's also the THEORY of relativity. Not proven. E=mc(squared) not necessarily true.

You silly daoists and your no-thingness. Though the cup is only useful because it is empty.

Nothing personal, but fecal matter goes downhill. And I don't feel like being everyone's valley.

I suppose what I'm trying to get at is that for any given situation, there is a set number of outcomes.

Sure, you can choose the type of cereal that you want in the morning. But your selection is governed by what cereals you have in your cabinet, which is governed by when you last went shopping, which is governed by how much money you have (or some form of time constraint), which is governed by where you work, which is governed by how much skill/schooling you have, which is governed by money or previous skill, which is governed by previous hard work or your parents (money or good genetics)... etc. etc. etc.

And we can't really be someone that we're not. I can never have an Einstein equivalent IQ. This is a set factor in who I can become. Both our current and past environments dictate "who" we are by placing limitations on what we can be.

Well, seeing as to how I disagree with omnipotentcy (can't make a rock that you can't lift), that's not really an option. If you wanted to define free-will as the choices that you can make given your situational disposition, I think that might be the closest we could probably get to agreeing.

And, for the record, I'm a little biased towards free-will, being a bit of a fatalist and all.

And I know you don't seem big on the whole physiological aspect Sky, but what is it that you disagree with? So that I may attempt to change your mind. :)

Oh, and thanks to CreativeSoul for creating a thread with a good potentiality for debate. Huzzah. Though I'd have to disagree that violence and calmness are necessarily learned behaviours. Some people are born screamers, and some aren't. Plus, it's bred into us to fight. We've only been "civilized" for the past few centuries. And I wouldn't even call us that yet.

I wouldn't define that as a "free-will" viewpoint, so much as a (perhaps) more enlightened perspective on determinism. There isn't such a thing as free-will.

Definition: Free Will - Philosophy. the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces.

Let's say that all of a sudden (and oh my) god appears to me and sets down three different colored balls in front of me. He then says "Pick one."

Though it is my choice as to which ball I pick, I am still constrained to the three that he has laid out. I cannot pluck a fourth ball of MY choosing from the air surrounding me.

Thus, my choices are limited by physical forces.



Given the observer-reality correlation, couldn't it also be said that other people are also locking in "who" you are? You become the front that you show to the world, not necessarily even because you have to believe it. Even at a more physiological level. If you're an angry person all the time, your cells have more receptors for the angry chemical that your brain sends throughout the body. Your cells even become dependent upon anger, since other receptors in the cells walls had to disappear to make space for that emotion.

No, but if you've never tried Bikram Yoga, find someplace nearby and give it a shot. You'll want to bring a few towels and a couple bottles of water though. And don't eat for a few hours beforehand.

And on a completely separate note, did you know that Christianity is based mainly on astrology?

What is sacred except for hard-work and intent? Ceremonies, children, marriage... all these things require effort, time, resources. Sacredness doesn't create a spiritual space, you create a spiritual space through focus and repetition.

And I also wouldn't say that things that are sacred are for sale. It's not that these things can just be bought from us. But they can be taken. It isn't thievery that we fear, but loss.

Appreciation, not idolization, is perhaps the best way to show respect for god. Not to mention it lets her/him know that they're doing a good job, and to keep it up.

Firstly, it's not a sidestep. That's the answer you'd get from most people. I just wanted to see if you'd pick it apart. This should probably constitute another thread, but here goes...

Loving all things equally (or having equality) would mean that god loves Hitler just as much as you or me. It also means that with your morning breakfast, you might as well use bleach instead of milk.

Things aren't equal, and shouldn't be equal.

Secondly, why is Morning Song's head so beeeeg? But really, to elaborate on Abra's point, you absolutely cannot hope to have faith and a relationship with god.

Faith implies the possibility of non-existence. All crazy discussions about reality aside, I don't need faith to communicate with my friends.

Well, if you mean the god that loves all things equally, neither would deserve affection more than the other. Both are her/his creations.

However, and we can see this quite often in society, having faith doesn't mean you have a good moral and ethic code. If you've got a devote believer in a truly good and higher power, they shouldn't be thinking about bad-mouthing people, thievery, and subjugating others to serve themselves.

It couldn't be said that they actually believe. What they're doing is trying to be good so that they can be "saved". It's a self-serving action.

I've found that the more you sacrifice for the world (energy, time, money... etc.) the more the world repays your kindness.

Aye, but that's exactly it. We don't want to raise someone else's kid. 'Cause then we're just the guy ****ing their mom. Plus, some of us don't want that responsibility yet. We still have a lot of life ahead of us before we even want to procreate. It's my opinion that you should be financially secure before having a child, and most people aren't even that.

It doesn't matter if it's the first date... you're asking him to go on another, and give you the opportunity to start a relationship. If you aren't, then all you're really looking for is a ****buddy (which some people are fine with, I'd rather have a meaningful relationship). Even if a relationship blossoms, we'll never be their real father.

Also, from my point of view, I don't want to be there for six months and have the kid get attached to me, especially if/when things don't work out. That kind of stuff can be detrimental to a child's psyche.

Are those acceptable answers?