Hey S1owhand,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Enjoy the show and the popcorn! ;-)

Hey voileazur,

If you scroll up you will see that I explicitly stated this was based on the original (old) testament - which is the only testament given directly by G-d (to Moses in front of over 2,000,000 people who witnessed it). The New Testament was written by men about 1,000 years later.

I don't speak for Christians and I respectfully differ from some of their theology.

As far as pre-marital sex there is no Biblical prohibition (if both parties are not married). However there is the issue of not being selfish to the detriment of another's emotional and physical well being. Only focusing on our own pleasure and disregarding the effect it will have on others is a Biblical sin of love your neighbor as you love yourself.

The vast majority of people who are not married and sleep together end up deeply hurt when they break up. I can site numerous studies and statistics how this has left many women feeling jaded and used. Heck, ask some of the women here.

Just because someone gets married doesn't mean they won't hurt their partner. If you cheat on your spouse or do other things to harm him or her - that's even worse.

To sum up - Pre-marital sex is not a Biblical prohibition but it most likely will lead to hurting others which is a Biblical prohibition.

Abra,

G-d loves truth. Truth is one of the highest values in the Bible and for mankind. Worshiping idols is a falsehood. Bowing down and believing that a stone or a cow has some type of power is foolishness. G-d wants us to grow as humans. We can only do that if we are in tune with the truth.

The vast majority of laws in the Bible deal with the concept of truth. G-d gave humans the Bible so believing that is true is a truth and can help us understand ourselves and the world better. Ergo G-d does want you to believe that the Bible is true. (All my current and future references to the Bible are referring to the Original (old) testament.)

It does not say anywhere in the Bible that one must believe that Jesus died for your sins or that it’s okay to worship a human.

In fact as I have pointed out before G-d requires very little from you. Believing in Monotheism and not worshiping Idols is one requirement.

As I have posted before in response to you:

There really isn't a "wrong" religion. Most religions encompass the seven Noahide laws which are incumbent upon every human being.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

They are as follows:

1 Prohibition against idolatry
2 Prohibition against blasphemy
3 Prohibition against murder
4 Prohibition against theft
5 Prohibition against sexual immorality
6 Prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal
7 Establish courts of justice

I don't think that you would have a problem with these Abra. That's all G-d asks of you regardless which religion, if any, that you follow.

The more you work on yourself to elevate yourself by doing kindness and loving others while improving your character is really all you have to do.

As I wrote earlier, this is why I differentiate between the two. If you look at the Bible (5 books of Moses) you won’t find anything that is hateful or mean to humans. Like I said it’s all about love on a deeper level.

It’s important to differentiate the different criticisms of the Bible. The last few threads you have been talking about the negative attributes you attributed to G-d in the Bible. The blame for those attitudes rest more with the people who taught you growing up rather then what it actually states in the ONLY directly G-d given Bible.

If you want to tackle the issues whether or not the events in the Bible happened, we can do that as well. Why is it hard to believe that there was Noah’s flood? We have seen Tsunamis and floods destroy cities and kill thousands of people. Why is it so hard to believe that it happened on a larger scale?

Abra,

Okay now we are getting somewhere. I have a nice surprise for you. It doesn't say anywhere in the Original (old) testament that your definition of fornication is prohibited. In fact the Bible very explicitly lists the type of sexual relationships that are forbidden and two unmarried people who love each other is not one of them.

Issue #1 - resolved.

Next your issue with the concept that all men are sinners. Once again to the best of my knowledge it does not say anywhere in the Original (old) testament that all men are sinners.

Issue #2 - resolved.

I would be happy to tackle your next two issues. But before we do that will you look at how much anger you had at the notion of G-d saying things in the BIBLE which HE NEVER actually said?

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to reexamine the things you were taught growing up and weed out things that are erroneous, before concluding that the Bible (5 books of Moses) were man-made.

I was taught a lot of things that did not feel "true" at all. It bothered me for a long time so I decided to study directly from the source rather then take people's word for what it says. I was thrilled to discover that most things I was taught is actually not true and the Bible is full of love and caring for all of G-d's creations.

I am fascinated when I come across people who ONLY want to date people of another race, religion, color, etc. I perfectly understand someone who doesn't mind if the person is different - because they are focusing on their personality and soul. But when they ONLY want to date different - my curiosity is peaked.

Isn't anyone else curious too?

I know its personal, Joreese16, but if you don't mind answering why you feel this way, I would love to hear. ;-)

Seriously Abra,

I can't see how you are an honest truth seeker with statements like:

"If the God of the Bible turns out to be true then God is a demented perverted monster. I won't say that’s impossible, but if that’s what God is then cowering down to it just to save your own butt probably isn't going to pan out in the end anyway. That would be like surrendering to Hitler and agreeing to forever be his slave just to avoid his wrath.

...Why should I choose a perverted sick and inconsistent picture of a God over a perfectly flawless picture of God?

What would be my motivation to do such an absurd thing? Just out of fear that God might truly be a demented monster? Worshiping a demented monster probably isn't going to be a wise thing to do in the long run anyway.

The bottom line for me is that if God isn't at least as nice as I am, then it isn't a very supreme being."

How can you tell me that you actually see this in the Bible? Even people who don't believe that the Bible is divine don't have this twisted picture of G-d based on the Bible. Clearly there is an emotional component to your evaluation and I would guess that it is based on negative experiences you have had with religious folks. While I sympathize with your anguish, that is not a clear headed logical basis for seeing cruelty in the Bible or in G-d when there is none. G-d is the ultimate being of love. Like I said if you have particular questions about different things in the Bible then investigate them. Don't jump to an emotional conclusion.

If you are honestly open to seeing things with an open mind, why don't we examine things a bit closer? Pick ONE example from the original (old) testament of what you would call G-ds cruelty and I would be happy to discuss it with you and perhaps show you how its not cruel at all but an act of love.

Abra,

There is clearly a big difference between the two. The Original (old) testament was given by G-d directly to Moses at Sinai. Where the new testament to my understanding was written by disciples of Jesus years later. One is directly from G-d and the other is from humans. I wouldn't expect them to be consistent.

I have covered for you in other threads how the wars were just and based on the cruelty of the nations attacking the nation of Israel. There is nothing inconsistent in the Bible. There is great mystery and many levels of interpretation for those capable of understanding at a deeper level. G-d gave the Bible for everyone. Obviously not everyone has the same level of sophistication so He made it understandable at many different levels.

An intelligent person understands that when G-d said, "Let there be light." and Steve says, "Turn on the light" that its two very different statements even if the words are the same.

You are very quick to throw up your hands the second you come across a contradiction. Take some time to search for answers before throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Red,

I am sorry to hear about what happened to you. One thing is certain - you certainly are good enough. Every one of us is good enough. Its sad that sometimes others don't recognize our goodness. But that is their problem. The right person will recognize your inherent goodness.

Drifter,

Chill out bro. ;-)

Bad relationship = a relationship where two people end up not being compatible for the long term.

Abusive relationship = a relationship where one party (or both) treat each other inhumanly and without regard for each others well being.

The vast majority of relationships end up being "Bad relationships" not "Abusive" ones. My comments were meant for the majority of relationships which are not "abusive."

Somethindiff,

You are not talking about a bad relationship - you are talking about an abusive relationship. There is a big difference. An abusive relationship is a whole nother story. An abusive relationship doesn't involve love because in most cases the abusive individuals are not capable of love. Even the positive acts are not acts of love.

Drifter,

No one is telling you how to feel. Everyone has a right to have their own opinion. Everyone has a different perspective. Mine is that the love conquers the pain. Obviously if you feel differently you are deeply hurting. I have nothing but sympathy for your pain and hurt. I wish you nothing but the best and happiness and I am sorry for your obvious pain.

Lets break this down.

Think of your most painful breakup.

Now think of your happiest moment of love.

Which one is more powerful? Taking into account that if the breakup is recent that will be too powerful. But think of an old relationship where the pain is distant. Which moment is stronger? The pain or the love?

But the process of discovering someone, having the good and bad times, does prevent someone from being lonely. So I don't know if I would agree that a bad relationship is worse then being lonely.

Sort of the idea behind its better to have loved and lost then to never having loved.


LOL..no disrespect intended Rabi (sorry you just look like one..just a hunch), but try being in a truly "bad realtionship" then lets see your answer. I only speak from experience..i was not "taught" this.



I don't doubt the pain, sumthindif, it can be hell. But still the magic of having love in your heart is the most powerful force in the universe. It might not feel that during moments of pain and deep hurt - but ultimately its true.

Spider,

I like your question. Its fascinating that people can't bring themselves to answer if they saw with their own eyes the impossible and a direct revelation they still wouldn't believe. That is not logical at all. If you accept the premise there could only be one honest answer.

I think some people like being alone. I can't see how anyone likes being lonely. Lonely implies a longing for something missing. Its inherently an unhappy state of being.

Well my dear shorty, if its any consulation... its better to have to deal with loneliness (which sux big time) than to have to deal with having a bad relationship.



But the process of discovering someone, having the good and bad times, does prevent someone from being lonely. So I don't know if I would agree that a bad relationship is worse then being lonely.

Sort of the idea behind its better to have loved and lost then to never having loved.

How can you be lonely on a date? Unless she is completely not speaking your language or sharing your interests. Do you feel that way even if you are connecting with your date?

gdr441,

Then you are probably not REALLY lonely for a very long time.

Sorry to hear that. You are right that probably is the next level after you feel lonely for long enough - you start feeling dead inside. That is certainly not a good thing.