The Bible says noone is good, no not one. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I know. I am chief among them. That's why I need God's salvation. I've taken advantage of his offer by confessing my belief publicly, turning toward his way (repentance) and being baptized by immersion, joining Jesus in his death, burrial and ressurection.

Have you?

Sorry to say, but the Bible says that our good works and good intentions don't cut it. Even our good works don't, although, they help. After salvation, works prove that you have indeed repented. Those who accept him are dead to sin. They ask for the Holy Spirit to enter their life and once that happens, man, you don't WANT to do badly any more, let me tell you.

God loves us whether we go to heaven or whether we go to hell. It's our choice. Wherever we go, God still loves us.

See, it works like this: he sent his son to us here so we could accept or reject him here. Accept him and you're good to go. Reject him and you're already in Hell. Separation from God is Hell, whehter it's on earth or wherever. Sin separates us from God. Accept his son and his blood cleansus us from all sin. Then, you work for continual cleansing and leading. That's why going to church, reading the bible and taking communion, among other things are so important.

There are five keystones to faith: Worship (love of God), Fellowship (love of others), Discipleship (learning to be like Jesus), Ministry (service to believers) and mission (service to unbelievers). Your life is a test, a trust (to see how we handle God's resources) and a temporary assignment.

If you'd like to learn more, read the Bible and the Purpose Fille Life. I'd be glad to send you both if you need & you send me your address. Or, you can talk with your local Christian Church pastor. They'd be glad to assist you in understanding the faith.

I'm glad you're concerned abuot the Lord and our relationship to him. Keep thinking and looking at things spiritual. It's always a good idea.

George

but if all men want to finger-point, then none of them is good. Not even you and me, or aren't we?

That’s the biggest lie mankind ever made up.

It’s just a brainwashing scheme to make people feel guilty and bow down to a manmade religion.

God would never condone such ignorance. That whole line of thinking is demented.

God is so far above that petty judgmental religion that it isn’t even funny.

To even believe that God could be that sick is to disgrace God.

Like as if God is obsessed with “glory”.

That’s the egotistic lust of men, not of God.

The religion you speak of belittles and shames the name of God in countless ways.

Listen to your very own words!

Because you’ve read a stupid book you now think that you can speak for God!

Yes! It’s true! You read a book and then proclaim that this is how God thinks!

It’s the epitome of arrogance. The Bible is the greatest blaspheme ever created.

It defines God and puts him in a box under the thumb of the human ego.

All it does is serve as fodder for the judgmental finger-pointings of men.

“Believe in my picture of God or go to hell!”

I’m sure God would just be tickled pink by that attitude.

It causes people to pass judgments on others,… (i.e. All men are sinners!)

Whoa! And Jesus said not to judge yet here we are proclaiming that all men are sinners, in direct defiance of what Jesus himself taught? How Christian of us to proclaim that Jesus is a liar.

It’s an oxymoronic religion that breeds animosity and hatred via it’s accusatory finger-pointing judgments.

It’s the epitome of using God as an excuse to pass judgment on fellow men.

There’s only one way to know God, and that’s through direct experience. If you choose to worship a book written by men, then you choose to worship men. Toss the book in the burn barrel where it belongs. It does nothing but judge and accuse. It’s the ultimate source of blaspheme. The book can do nothing but take you further away from the loving God you seek. It’s a book filled with hatred and judgment.



Jesus was so totally differnet from the God of Abraham that he could neither have been sent by him nor be his son. Jesus totally denounced the directives of the God of Abraham. He preached just the opposite. They cannot possible have been even remotely related.

But all men don't finger-point.

Have I ever told you that you're a sinner?

so are you all saying that no one who just practices good works will be granted eternal life?..Miles

Nope, sorry Miles. God sends good people to hell.

God doens't give a flying crap about sin or goodness.

All he's interested in is support for proselytizing the religion.

This is where a religion has really gotten off-track bigtime.

It puts more value in proselyting its beliefs than it does in the original theme of the story. Which was supposed to be about a God who cared about whether or not people were good or bad.

It’s a religion gone awry.

Well Abra if people really believe that they should consider thier own salvation then.



Rev 22:18-20

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, Elohim will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Yahweh shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


NKJV


Rev 20:12-13
And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
NKJV


Now I would consider this in these verses.

1.. It clearly says the dead will be judged by thier works

2. It also says if you add to the book of this prphecy plagues will come on you.



3.. The worst one though is if you take away from the words of this prophecy that your name will be taken out of the book of life.


So If Yahweh does give people a chance for Eternal life by thier good works.. And you keep telling people they can not inherit eternal life by thier good works..

Then you better think about yourself for you have taken away and he says you will be the one not to inherit eternal life.

Yahweh Is Rightous and Just..Shalom...Miles

Interesting observation Miles.

no, u have not.
but you judge my religion based upon your beliefs which I agree at some points.
I agree with you that God is a being full of love. What I don't agree is in the fact that if there is wrongdoing from a man there must be a consequence.
You say the bible is the stupidest book ever written because as far as you understand it makes men feel guilty.
However, that is not the purpose of the bible as far as I understand it. You see hate in the bible, I see love in the bible. I see a God who loves me and tells me live your life loving your brothers and sisters as I love you.
At some point the bible is strong in some points because (at least for me) it's no bearable the fact that there is no consequences to wrongdoings.
Just my point of view. I'm not preaching.

and just for the record I hate when some christian denominations base their preaching on sin and hell.
That is an absolutely wrong first approach.
I don't deny the nature of hell and sin. I just don't agree with the fact that all their teachings are based upon just those two issues. Christianity is way way bigger than that.

Abra... you wrote and I quote.......

<<<<<<<....There’s only one way to know God, and that’s through direct experience......>>>>>>>

Agreed.
And that's where the spirit to Spirit connection takes place... thru a Personal relationship with God....and not thru a Religious experience..

In fact, The book (bible )won't make a LICK of sense UNTIL that personal experience with God DOES takes place.

BUT YET, the book(bible ) is still necessary to help one GET to the point ...where they ARE ready to receive God into their heart(spirit)...and hence, make that spirit to Spirit connection .

How can a man even Know ,
except the Word be Preached?

In other words, How can one even know that they need that personal relationship with God, if the Word isn't preached.

See.....the written Word of the bible ( logos) will not spring forth and become life (rhema ) in the spirit of man, until man first HEARS the Word of God preached..... and then man's spirit RECEIVES that Word......and then his spirit is connected with God (Spirit ),by ACCEPTING what the Word Preaches (Jesus as Saviour)and thus, he is born again in his spirit.
Then mans' spirit becomes alive.....and since there is NOW that spirit to spirit connection to God; then FINALLY that written word(bible) makes sense!!


Abra..... I believe you ARE hungry for the truth of God's Word , and are interested in a personal relationship with God...and not just some religious experience..

Granted.... some christians HAVE turned God into a religion, but that does not take away from the fact ,that Christianity is STILL about a personal relationship with God, and not about religion atall.

Abra...just ask God to help you become born again... talk to him ... just be yourself with Him.....be real.....cause God is seeking a personal relationship right back with you, Abra.

That's all God wants....is to restore fellowship back with His Creation.
Cause He knows that is what our spirit needs and longs for also....whether we realize this or not....and that is to become whole again.... One again with God.....the way
it was in the Beginning....before the fall.

He just wants His people back in FELLOWSIP with Him.....He misses His creation that He loves so much. .

See Abra?
All this intellectualizing about God never brings any answers...or any kind of fulfillment...or peace.
Does it.....

Why?
Cause there is never any connection with God on an intellectual level..... a connection to God can ONLY be made on a spiritual level.

Cause again, God is Spirit.

Intellect and spirit are on two different planes....gotta connect spirit to spirit to make sense of the things of God ,and to connect with God.

And then when that happens, the rest will all fall right in place.
And also , a peace that passeth all understanding will fill your heart...cause something happens in that connection with God
(when your spirit becomes born again)....and that something that happend is.....

you know
that you know
that you know
that you know
that you know
that you know
that you know....

that your spirit has been born again...
and you have no more doubt whatsoever....
ever ever ever again...

that Jesus Christ IS Lord..
and Everything He SAYS in His WORD that He is.

Amen.

I see.

And I suppose that this is why Christians are always struggling with their faith and straying from God’s leadership, and stumbling around in the dark, and always asking for prayer support from others because they are so distraught about how their lone prayers aren’t being answered.

Even preachers confess that they struggle with their faith.

So I think your proclamation here is slightly exaggerated.



Jesus said that he’ll come into the life of anyone who asks.

Well, I asked on many occasions.

So either he’s already living in my heart.

Or he failed to keep his WORD.

Which do you think is truth?

Abra......


Romans10:9 says......

If a man CONFESS with his Mouth
AND
MEAN it in his Heart
that Jesus is Lord.......
man shall be Saved.

See?

Actually, too many people just confess Jesus as Lord with their mouths ..but DON"T MEAN it in their HEARTS atall.

Therefore, they have HEAD knowledge ONLY.....and not HEART knowledge....and that is why nothing happens in their spirit !!!

GOTTA MEAN THOSE WORDS in your heart, Abra.. that's what FAITH is.....BELIEVING in what you SAY.

~~~~~~~~~

Now..about christians stumbling around:

Well Abra.....let's look at it this way.....

A baby is born into the world ,
and the baby takes its first drink by sucking at his mothers breast.

Then it goes from milk to pablum, and eventually even takes it's first step.

Then the baby eventually progresses from eating baby food , to eating regular grown up food ,and is walking by now.....and even running.

And soon the baby grows up into a litle boy or girl, and then eventually grows up into a mature man or woman.

All along, from babyhood to full manhood or woman hood, he/she has been Eating and digesting and taking in wholesome NOURISHMENT daily .... right?

Now...What would happen if proper wholesome nourishment was NOT being taken in daily?
We Would have a stunted babe, right?

Same with a christian.

But ALSO ....may I add......

you can have christians who ARE eating daily, the Word of God, but still just haven't matured yet.

In other words, God ain't done with any of us........we all are just AT DIFFERENT LEVELS OF MATURITY .

Although granted, some Christians DO STAY stunted, and are still drinking the milk of the word ONLY, and are still poo-pooing in baby diapers, when they sould be already eating steak and potatoes.... and this only happens because they refuse to grow up!!!
And the churches are full of them.

But Abra....STOP allowing other christians personal walks, to keep YOU from going and eating, and getting yourself nourished.

Cause if you ARE already born again, then Get out of the baby pampers.


Abra.....Here is something else that will help in understanding why some christians still stumble around.

And that is......a christian who is born again in his spirit ,is NOT born again, or made brand new, in his SOUL .

NOPE... the SOUL has to be renewed by the Word of God daily....and a christian has to EAT the spiritual food provided in the Word of God........cause again, it is ONLY the spirit that is born again...not the soul and not the flesh..

See....AFTER being born again, a christian STILL Lives in that same old body....and still has that same old stinkin thinkin in his mind(soulish area), that needs to be RENEWED daily....with the Word of God.

And that is MAN"S responsibility ......it is up to man, whether he chooses to RENEW his mind with the Word of God daily, or not.
God is NOT going to do it for him.


So Abra....STOP looking at fallible man...who hasn't quite arrived yet....and keep your eyes on Jesus..the author and finisher of your Faith.
God is perfecting that Good work that He has begun in ALL of us... NONE of us have arrived yet.

But one day , if we Christians DO EAT DAILY the Word of God , we WILL MATURE into healthy grownup christians.

But WE have to eat.....and feed our spirit the Word of God, or our spirit man will simply shrivel up and become weak.

Cause ....although the spirit is born again, it STILL needs Nourishment....and by feeding the spirit daily , the soul(mind) gets fed and renewed also.

But if man doesn't feed his spirit , the fleshly and soulish nature of man will end up being the stronger, and the born again spirit will become the weaker.

See Abra..it is only when we go and dine on God's Word daily , that a transformation takes place in our thinking (soulish area ) also.

God says RENEW our minds with the Word of God Daily.
How?
By eating and feeding the spirit, the soul gets renewed also.
Old stinkin thinkin gets repelaced by new Godly thoughts.


But some christians don't renew their minds..and stay stunted christians.
Hence the reason you see some christians stumbling around.

The christian walk is a process...... from a babe to a full mature christian....just like in the natural.

So once more........don't look at man...cause a christian has NOT fully matured yet....and because he hasn't fully arrived and matured yet; he also will stumble at times, even after he is born again.

u mean its supposed to come with something in it? i want a refund! mines empty!

You can run from God or run toward him. All I'm saying is it's better to run towards him. Whatever you believe him to be, I hope you find the right path. It's there and can be found with dilligent searching. You don't have to listen to me, put him in a box or whatever, but it helps to listen when he talks to you.

I don't hear his voice. I do believe he's found in the Bible.

I find that suspension of doubt works for me. I call it faith. You can call it stupidity, call it putting God in a box, call it whatever. All I know is what I've found out so far and I testify to what I've seen.

I know that one of the last things the bible tells me the Lord said is go to all nations making disciples out of people, telling people the news and I'm trying, brother. I hope you get the word, whether it's mine or whoever.

Good luck to you. May God, whoever he is, bless you. I just believe he's the God of the Bible. It's how I was raised and how I believe, for what it's worth.

As for stumbling around, when you find the right path, you won't stumble. I believe God can put us there, but we must be willing and responsive. Put him in charge and you're OK. When we stay in charge and try to comprehend with our own understanding, sometimes it doesn't work.

Again, that's what works for me, and I'm glad I can tell you about it, whether you'd like to listen or not. It's there and you can accept or reject as you wish. That's the place where God ain't in a box. He gives us free will to do and believe what we want and we's on our own from there if we want to be.

All you people have done is brainwashed yourselves into believing in ancient folklore. If that comforts you in some way, I'm glad to hear it.

Were the people who pointed out that Greek Mythology was false running from Zeus?

I don't think so. I think they were merely seeking truth.

Answer me the following with pure honesty if you can.

Tell me which of the following Gods you consider to be more perfect. And which of the following Gods you would genuinely love simply because you couldn’t resist to do so.

God #1.

A God that is truly prefect in every way. A God that created a universe in which spirits can become manifest and enjoy the physical sensations of life. A completely non-judgmental God that genuinely forgives all spirits no matter what they might do, and asks nothing in return from them. A God who’s love is so totally unconditional that she will accept every spirit back into her eternal bosom. A God that created things in a way where there is no need for judgment, punishments or damnation. A God that lives within your heart all the time whether you ask for her or not. A God that cannot abandon you even if you wanted her to.

God #2

A God that is truly imperfect and created a world where spirits can be lost to eternal damnation and fire. A God who’s love is extremely conditional. Not only on how you behave, but also on how you believe. If you believe the wrong things this God will send you to an eternal hellfire to be tortured for all of eternity even if you are a good person. This God is extremely judgmental and to implement the laws of this judgment this God inspired writers in only one little spot on planet Earth to write very ambiguous stories that fell into three parts and became three different religions, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Then, to salvage his book he sent his son to be nailed to a cross that only those who believe in this incarnation will be saved. The rest will be cast into the hell fire that this God created. Then his son teaches everything differently from his original stories to make everything even more ambiguous. Finally his son adds that many people who proclaim to know him he will denounce (i.e. clearly confessing that he is Lord is not enough).

So in all honesty, if you had a choice of which of the above two Gods would you prefer to be your creator which one would you choose?

The first God that has completely unconditional love for you.

Or the second God that keeps you in a constant state of wondering whether you’ve won it’s favor?

Be honest now.

Which one would you chose? Which God is more naturally lovable? Which God is more perfect?

Or do you feel that you have no choice?

Do you feel that you’re just stuck with God #2 and that you just need to deal with it to the best of your ability?

I choose to believe that God truly is perfect. That’s my choice. If I go to hell for praising God to the highest then so be it. I’m not going to belittle God just to try to save my own butt.

none because both of them are misconceptions and fallacies of people who try find reasons to justify for not believe in the only existent God.
people who claim to see the truth when they are more blind than bat in the daylight.
and if you think we are brainwashed for believing in what we believe so be it.