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Topic: Was Moses high on Mount Sinai?
Fitnessfanatic's photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:23 PM
When Moses brought the Ten Commandments down from Mount Sinai, he may have been high on a hallucinogenic plant, according to a new study by an Israeli psychology professor.

Writing in the British philosophy journal Time and Mind, Benny Shanon of Jerusalem’s Hebrew University said two plants in the Sinai desert contain the same psychoactive molecules as those found in plants from which the powerful Amazonian hallucinogenic brew ayahuasca is prepared.

The thunder, lightning and blaring of a trumpet which the Book of Exodus says emanated from Mount Sinai could just have been the imaginings of a people in an “altered state of awareness,” Shanon hypothesized.

“In advanced forms of ayahuasca inebriation, the seeing of light is accompanied by profound religious and spiritual feelings,” Shanon wrote.

“On such occasions, one often feels that in seeing the light, one is encountering the ground of all Being ... many identify this power as God.”

Shanon wrote that he was very familiar with the affects of the ayahuasca plant, having “partaken of the ... brew about 160 times in various locales and contexts.”

He said one of the psychoactive plants, harmal, found in the Sinai and elsewhere in the Middle East, has long been regarded by Jews in the region as having magical and curative powers.

Shanon acknowledged that he had "no direct proof of this interpretation" and said such proof cannot be expected.

Biblical scholars scoffed at Shanon's suggestion. Orthodox rabbi Yuval Sherlow told Israel Radio: “The Bible is trying to convey a very profound event. We have to fear not for the fate of the biblical Moses, but for the fate of science.”


beautyfrompain's photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:27 PM
Are you smoking something lol
How ridiculous...

no photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:27 PM
what i'm curious about is why scientists are always trying to disprove miracles and biblical happenings and whatnot. i mean, if they really enjoy doing it then more power to 'em....it is kinda interesting learning about a possible explination for these things, tho. and this one does make a lot of sense...

brian325's photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:28 PM

Are you smoking something lol
How ridiculous...


laugh laugh laugh ^5

Fitnessfanatic's photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:44 PM
Hallucinogenic drug would explain the the prophetic visions in Revelations. Actually anticent religions did use drugs in their ceremonies, Hebrews could have too. And more recently the Salem Witch trials began because of the hallucinogen ergot, (AKA LSD) that was unknowingly ingested by eating bread.

"When Linnda Caporael began nosing into the Salem witch trials as a college student in the early 1970s, she had no idea that a common grain fungus might be responsible for the terrible events of 1692. But then the pieces began to fall into place. Caporael, now a behavioral psychologist at New York's Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, soon noticed a link between the strange symptoms reported by Salem's accusers, chiefly eight young women, and the hallucinogenic effects of drugs like LSD. LSD is a derivative of ergot, a fungus that affects rye grain. Ergotism -- ergot poisoning -- had indeed been implicated in other outbreaks of bizarre behavior, such as the one that afflicted the small French town of Pont-Saint-Esprit in 1951.

But could ergot actually have been the culprit? Did it have the means and the opportunity to wreak havoc in Salem? Caporael's sleuthing, with the help of science, provided the answers.

Ergotism is caused by the fungus Claviceps purpurea, which affects rye, wheat and other cereal grasses. When first infected, the flowering head of a grain will spew out sweet, yellow-colored mucus, called "honey dew," which contains fungal spores that can spread the disease. Eventually, the fungus invades the developing kernels of grain, taking them over with a network of filaments that turn the grains into purplish-black sclerotia. Sclerotia can be mistaken for large, discolored grains of rye. Within them are potent chemicals: ergot alkaloids, including lysergic acid (from which LSD is made) and ergotamine (now used to treat migraine headaches). The alkaloids affect the central nervous system and cause the contraction of smooth muscle -- the muscles that make up the walls of veins and arteries, as well as the internal organs.

Toxicologists now know that eating ergot-contaminated food can lead to a convulsive disorder characterized by violent muscle spasms, vomiting, delusions, hallucinations, crawling sensations on the skin, and a host of other symptoms -- all of which, Linnda Caporael noted, are present in the records of the Salem witchcraft trials. Ergot thrives in warm, damp, rainy springs and summers. When Caporael examined the diaries of Salem residents, she found that those exact conditions had been present in 1691. Nearly all of the accusers lived in the western section of Salem village, a region of swampy meadows that would have been prime breeding ground for the fungus. At that time, rye was the staple grain of Salem. The rye crop consumed in the winter of 1691-1692 -- when the first unusual symptoms began to be reported -- could easily have been contaminated by large quantities of ergot. The summer of 1692, however, was dry, which could explain the abrupt end of the "bewitchments." These and other clues built up into a circumstantial case against ergot that Caporael found impossible to ignore."

beautyfrompain's photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:47 PM
Was this earth formed out of a hallucination?

no photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:49 PM
Haven't heard about the Moses one but it wouldn't really surprise me any. I have heard of Ezekiel being higher than kite

Fitnessfanatic's photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:56 PM

Was this earth formed out of a hallucination?


Could this universe be God's hallucination?

beautyfrompain's photo
Thu 03/06/08 05:59 PM
Not hardly dear.

Fitnessfanatic's photo
Thu 03/06/08 06:07 PM
Edited by Fitnessfanatic on Thu 03/06/08 06:11 PM
No seriously everone on the planet, through the history of the universe could just be a very detail dream that God creates.
It's that philosphical question: Could we be apart of someone else's dream?

beautyfrompain's photo
Thu 03/06/08 06:10 PM
It that was so it would not be a dream it would be a nightmare haha

Fitnessfanatic's photo
Thu 03/06/08 06:21 PM
Not so seriously, god could be a quite unassuming accountant living in a small apartment in Brooklyn but when ever he sleeps he creates the events for tomorrow. This god might not even know he's god.

Milesoftheusa's photo
Thu 03/06/08 06:21 PM
My guess is he is part of this prophecy.

2 Peter 2:12-19

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
KJV

Fitnessfanatic's photo
Thu 03/06/08 06:31 PM

My guess is he is part of this prophecy.

2 Peter 2:12-19

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
KJV



See anyone who wrote that has to be on something. It's like overly dramatic riddles of damnation to scare people into believing such dogma.

beautyfrompain's photo
Thu 03/06/08 06:39 PM
Scripture can not be understood by one without Christ. It is meaningless words, but when you receive Christ and the Holy Spirit it all becomes clear.

Have a good evening~

Fitnessfanatic's photo
Thu 03/06/08 07:22 PM
] Religion and drugs

[edit] James H. Leuba
The American psychologist James H. Leuba (1868-1946), in A Psychological Study of Religion, accounts for mystical experience psychologically and physiologically, pointing to analogies with certain drug-induced experiences. Leuba argued forcibly for a naturalistic treatment of religion, which he considered to be necessary if religious psychology were to be looked at scientifically. Shamans all over the world and in different cultures have traditionally used drugs, especially psychedelics, for their religious experiences. In these communities the absorption of drugs leads to dreams (visions) through sensory distortion.

William James was also interested in mystical experiences from a drug-induced perspective, leading him to make some experiments with nitrous oxide and even peyote. He concludes that while the revelations of the mystic hold true, they hold true only for the mystic; for others they are certainly ideas to be considered, but hold no claim to truth without personal experience of such.


Abracadabra's photo
Thu 03/06/08 07:39 PM

Scripture can not be understood by one without Christ. It is meaningless words, but when you receive Christ and the Holy Spirit it all becomes clear.


That's interesting.

A book that can't be understood until you believe it, and can't be believed until you understand it.

By this logic a person must accept Christ as their Savior before they even have a clue who Christ is, or why they need to be saved.

Is it even possible to 'believe' in something that you don't yet understand? What would it mean to believe something when you don't even know yet what it is that you are believing?

That whole ideal is an oxymoron.

If only Christians can understand Christianity, then it would be impossible for a non-Christian to ever become a Christian.

no photo
Fri 03/07/08 09:10 AM
Was Moses high on Mount Sinai?

so Moses was high on Mount Sinai? ..so is Mount Sinai the name of the drug that Moses was using to get high or the name of the mountain where Moses was high on

so Moses was "stone on drugs" ..God told Moses to stone adulterers and unruly children to death...that phrase has a whole new meaning now

Milesoftheusa's photo
Fri 03/07/08 09:32 AM
Fitnessfanatic

What was inspired in Peters writings were warnings to the ones who believe. Telling them what to expect at th end of this age. He said many more things that have come true in the last 25 years. He is not condeming the unbeliever. Faith comes by hearing. It is not our job to convert anyone. What ours is, is to show a way of life that is peaceful and loving.Judgement in the bible is not to the outsider. It is to the believer as he is tested by the lusts and fantacies of this world. So you tell him where he went wrong and thier is set up in Math. 3 times he is warned before he is put out or back into the world. This even to the believer is not being hateful no the oppisite. So when he lives in the world again he will see what he did wrong and want to come back. I am sure many of us has had a 17 year old child who thinks he knows it all and refuses your rules and threatens to move out. I would believe most parents would tell him ok go pack your bags. After about a week or so living with friends he ends up back at your door step humbled. Realizing all that you do for him. That is love he had to experience the world for himself to find out it is not a box of chocolate..I know many people claim hell and fire and say programed phrases that someone taught them. They believe this is all you have to do. thier is a porpuse in all of this. If you believe a lie that you are being told and thier is no reason to worry about reading scripture. No proving to yourself what it says. Even Abra made a great statement to believers a while back. He said if I did believe then I would want to know everything that book has to say. So True.But most believers do not get that. Thier like little robots running around giving everybody a fresh cup of coffee. But he is only programmed for that. The scriptures do not say what many are saying they say. They will not hardly ever challenge me because they know they are wrong and can not defend a lie.... so this stuff about the Israelites being stoned could not be true. Yahweh traveled with them for 40 years and when the law was give which is way more than the 10 commandments. he would not of allowed it. He struck down people who disobeyed willingly as an example to the rest. They had to learn new ways. They had been in egypt for 430years. They were worshipping who knows what....... Blessings...Miles

no photo
Sat 03/08/08 07:43 PM


Scripture can not be understood by one without Christ. It is meaningless words, but when you receive Christ and the Holy Spirit it all becomes clear.


That's interesting.

A book that can't be understood until you believe it, and can't be believed until you understand it.

By this logic a person must accept Christ as their Savior before they even have a clue who Christ is, or why they need to be saved.

Is it even possible to 'believe' in something that you don't yet understand? What would it mean to believe something when you don't even know yet what it is that you are believing?

That whole ideal is an oxymoron.

If only Christians can understand Christianity, then it would be impossible for a non-Christian to ever become a Christian.



All you need is a heart that seeks God unconditionally. As long as you insist that the scriptures are myths or insist that you are sinless or attach any other strings or conditions on your beliefs, you will never find God.

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