Then, spider, perhaps you will do as I suggested and read the book, then get back to us.

Have you read about the Holographic principle? You seem to be supporting it when you discuss Jeanniebean's beliefs, but then you deny it at the same time. The Holographic principle states that time is an illusion, so knowing the future wouldn't be outside of the realm of possiblity. In fact, the author of the holographic principle suggests that we will be able to see the future and past at some point.

The Divine Matrix

Gregg Braden’s book entitled “The Divine Matrix.”

For more detailed elaboration of the science supporting The Divine Matrix,and the holographic reality in which we live,

The book is an excellent and accessible account.

More specifically, he cites four Discoveries regarding the Divine Matrix (TDM p. xxi):

1) There is a field of energy that connects all of creation.

2) This field plays the role of a container, a bridge, and a mirror for the beliefs within us.

3) The field is non-local and holographic. In other words, every part of the field is connected to every other and each piece mirrors the whole but on a smaller scale.

4) We communicate with the field through the language of emotion.

According to Mr. Braden, “The key to mastering this place of pure energy is to know that it exists, to understand how it works, and finally to speak the language that it recognizes.”

I have always been keenly interested in the nature of time. I do understand that it does not actually "exist" as an entity in space might "exsit."

The only thing that truly exists in relation an observer or experience is the present moment.

The past is seen as a memory and can be distorted by each individual. The subconscious mind literally cannot tell the difference between an imagined past and what really took place. Therefore there is no way to document the past except according to who observed and perceived it.

The future can be seen only as probabilities. In as much as existence is concerned, a probability does not exist until an observer takes that path and experiences it. That is how an observer manifests their own experience. They take the road leading to that probability. If the road is not taken that probability fades away like a forgotten dream.

We can see the future in the form of probabilities and we can see the past in the form of memories. None of which are accurate as all is seen from an infinite number of points of view.

Jeannie

In the reading of the Tarot cards, you can only see probabilities when the future is concerned. The Tarot speaks to the energy of the present moment and it speaks in the form of pictures and symbols. It may appear to foretell a future event that is currently in motion and that event is likely to take place if no different action is set in motion to prevent it.

Jeannie

If you need a break.......

And your brain hurts from so much thinking....


Come one come all to the longest and fastest running thread on JSH.....come meet alot of new people and maybe find "The One"

Debbie
Matchmaker

http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/84161

I need you to explain these statements... You seem to be implying that Newtonian physics have been "abandoned" in exchange for quantum mechanics, but they describe two different things. Newtonian physics describe the universe at the visable level and quantum mechanics describes the universe at the subatomic level. Newtonian physics are still accepted and valid at describing the visible universe.

This is the way I describe time from outside the implicate order of things:

The three dimensions that describe space are height, width and length. But time was then added to that for a 4th dimension.

The first three measurements can locate an event in space. The fourth dimension, time locates the event in time.

Therefore, for the time traveler, it is necessary to know all four of these measurements to get where he is going. This hypothetical time traveler is coming from a place that is outside the time-space continuum's, or from outside of time and space, just as spirit(or God or soul) would have to do.

Consciousness exists outside of time and space. Consciousness is where the Will dwells.

Jeannie

P.S. therefore, time is a measurement for the location of an event in space along with the three other coordinates.

Here is something interesting about free will:

The problem of Free Will vs. Determinism has puzzled philosophers for thousands of years. It is a profound problem for without Free Will there can be no morality, no right and wrong, no good and evil. All our behaviours would be pre-determined and we would have no creativity or choice. Common sense (and most importantly, Darwinian Evolution) suggests that we do in fact have Free Will, that we can decide and determine our futures within the limits of physical reality. However, the only absolute way to solve this problem of Philosophy is to know what exists and how it is interconnected, i.e. True Knowledge of Reality.
The Metaphysics of Space and the Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) is a simple scientific solution which explains how we can have limited free will in a necessarily connected universe.

This is very important as it explains why we can live as moral creatures creating better futures for ourselves and our society. By 'limited free will' we mean limited by the necessary connection of matter. We do not have the freedom to defy gravity and make ourselves float upwards, but within the constraints of necessary connection there are still many possible futures. We can choose to read this, or we can decide to stop reading it. Both are possible futures that obey the laws of physics and the necessary connections between things.

Read more here:

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/cosmos-determinism-free-will-necessary-connection.htm

I think this guy has got some great stuff!!

(I decided to remove it so as not to violate copyright.)

******************



http://www.spaceandmotion.com/cosmos-determinism-free-will-necessary-connection.htm

Valid, perhaps.. but not complete. There were still many incorrect and unanswered questions. It was not perfect.
Now, with this new information, some of these puzzles can be solved.

I wasn’t addressing or supporting any specific book, and I never said I was. I haven’t read the Holographic principle and I certainly don’t claim to support what might be said in that specific book. I may or may not.

I was addressing your original points about the differences between rationalizing things, and using reason to come to conclusions.

Then I went on to state the fact that science supports that we are a manifestation of this universe, and that everything is connected, and that there can be no definite boundaries based on everything we know, and therefore it is reasonable to come to this conclusion.

I never meant to imply that I was supporting any specific book.

I was merely addressing that the main things that Jeannie is suggesting are indeed supported by science and that her suggestion are therefore reasonable and not merely rationalizations of wishful thinking.

This doesn’t mean that I agree with everything she says or everything in any book she might recommend.

Moreover, just because I agree that her method of thinking is reasonable doesn’t automatically imply that it must be the truth.

My only point is that she’s not simply trying to rationalize a pre-conceived conclusion.

That’s the only point I was addressing.

The Holographic Principle is the science behind the book she suggested. The above statement is only supported by the Holographic prinicple. So if you don't agree with the Holographic principle, then what science do you believe that supports the belief that "we are a manifestation of this universe"?

K.I.S.S......

To answer the OP.....yep....I do...I CHOOSE to have free will....


..as to the rest of the hypothesising masses....from the outside looking in, it doesn't appear that many even know what free and will mean..

Jess642,

Nice to see you back in the religion forum, hopefully you will stick around for awhile.

Hey Spider, thankyou...

With the weather patterns, and the work load, I have no idea how often I will have to meander through JSH...however, it is refreshing to see so many of the longer tenants, still around...

i have free willy 1-4!!

Fine.I believe you have to have no concience to have total free will.Otherwise human decency can really interfere with a good time.

A better way to look at this is that Newtonian physics provides a way to design fairly simple things from a practical point of view. However, when it comes to describing the underlying nature of the universe it breaks down completely.

The recognition of this way two-fold.

With respect to time being absolute, Newtonian physics was wrong. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity replaces that notion. And the predictions of Einstein’s theory have been verified. Time really is a relative notion.

with respect to the universe being determinate and particle-like, again Newtonian physics was wrong. This was originally discovered by Max Planck in 1900 via his work on Blackbody Radiation which could not be described by using Newtonian physics. Thus Quantum Physics was born.

Werner Heisenberg then went on to show that no quantum ‘particle’ in the universe could simultaneously have a definite momentum and position.

These things forever destroyed the determinism of Newtonian Physics, and bought about the era of indeterminate universe.

This is where we stand today, and it is currently accepted that there cannot be any going back. Too many experiments have verified that this really is the way things are. It’s not a mistake.

Fortunately we can still use Newtonian mechanics to build things like violins or even rockets to the moon. But also much of our current technology such as cell phones, computer chips, and even modern televisions use principles of quantum physics. They simply wouldn’t work if quantum physics wasn’t true.

I know what you mean there!

I have no free will at all!

I'm addicted to posting and wasting my life talking nonsense on the Internet. I dream of having a real life, but alas, that's the extent of my free will.