In what situation could one have only one choice? Can there be one "choice". Seems to me like a better term in that case would be "must". But I can't think of a single situation wherein one would only have one "choice".

Clearly then, you don’t have the free will to think of such a situation.

Good one, but I think it's more likely that no such situtation exists.

Darn Spider, you beat me to it. I was just about to ask this same question. The thing is presented with any situation there are always at least two choices. To do that thing or do not do that thing. I am confused what you mean by only having one choice. Are you using an example as in someone is holding a gun to your head and says "if you do not do this thing, you will die" or are you literally saying that you can ONLY pick one thing.

Even in the situation of the gunman, you have a choice to do the thing you don't want to do and live or you have the choice to stay true to your beliefs and die. I mean like spider I can't think of a single situation where you have no choice at all. Even if that choice is to close all the blinds in your house and cut yourself off from the world to avoid doing something that seems to only have one option.

I think that the confusion might arise in the belief that "choice" implies the ability to change your situation. If I were to fall off of a cliff, I would have many choices, but unfortunately, none of them would definitely change my situation. Only one choice I can think of might change my situtation and that's calling out to the Lord and I'm not sure that I would be lucid enough to think to do that with the ground coming at me at 56 m/s.

I think you guys are missing the point.

It doesn’t matter whether or not you can think of an actual situation where there is only one choice. The actual existence of such a situation is irrelevant.

The point is that the number of options open to you defines the breadth of your free choice. If only had one choice available then you would have no free will.

If you wish to proclaim that no such situation can exist in the real world, then are all you are saying that it’s impossible not to have at lease some level free will in the real world.

I never claimed otherwise. I’m just pointing out the obvious fact that the more choices you have the more free will you have, and that you can’t even have free will if you don’t have any choices in the first place.

Free will is nothing more than having choices. Therefore the more choices you have before you, the more free will you have.



What choices would you have?

Choice that aren’t genuinely available to you aren’t really choices at all. You might be able to think of a lot of things that you’d like to be able to choose from, but if those options aren’t available then they aren’t really choices, they’re just wishful thinking.

When I talk about free will, I am not talking about what we MAY be permitted to do in a certain society or situation. I am talking about our freedom to make a decision to do it.. or not.
Yes we certainly can walk around naked at any time. Whether we will be allowed to continue is not up to us, it is up to the society. There are societies in Brazil who live in a warm climate and literally all run around with just a little decoration hanging off of them, but are otherwise totally nude.

Free Will does not mean freedom to do anything we want. It has to do with the freedom of self direction.

The following is taken from the book "Power of Will
by FRANK C. HADDOCK 1907

PRESENT DEFINITIONS

The Will is a way a person has of being and doing, by which itself and the body in which it dwells are directed. It is not the Will that wills, any more than it is the perceptive powers that perceive, or the faculty of imagination that pictures mental images.

The Will is "the Soul Itself Exercising Self Direction."

"By the term Will in the narrower sense," says Royce. "one very commonly means so much of our mental life as involves the attentive guidance of our conduct." When person employs this instrumental power, it puts forth a Volition. A Volition is the willing power in action.

****************************

Free will does not guarantee any number of choices. If you had one choice (if it's a choice, the there must be two possibilities), then you have free will. Being able to choose from the available options is the defintion of free will.

What could I do if I were falling? The options are limitless, but as I pointed out, they wouldn't effect my situation. I could cry, scream, laugh, recite poetry, repent, pray, spit, make shadow puppets, flap my arms, etc. Just because you have free will doesn't mean that your choices will effect your situation positively or negatively. In many situations, your choices won't effect your situation. For instance: If you run out of gas, crying by the side of the road is a choice, but it won't help you any.

You are right IMHO. Free will is self direction. It is direction over what we choose to do and think. It is not power over other people. Wallace D. Wattles in his book "The Science of Getting Rich" says that you must never use your will to control others. Your will is to be used to direct your own attention and thoughts.


Jeannie

i found one at the fun times guide!!

http://thefuntimesguide.com/2007/05/how_to_make_a_will_kit.php

Where the will is concerned there is never only one choice. That would mean that there was only one thought to think, only one thing to look at, only one book to read, only one television show to watch, only one person to talk to.

Free will does not address only a choice of what action we might take, it is about how we choose to feel, think, act, and what we choose to look at, place our attention on etc. It is the power of self direction.

abra said:



If a person is unable to see the choices before him or her, then free will is indeed limited. Therefore, a person may be limiting their own free will by the lack of perception of the possibilities available.

Good point abra. So free will might be very much affected by a person's belief in what is possible, or by their ability to see or imagine the choices available.

Jeannie

Free will does not depend upon the number of choices. Awareness of all choices does not effect free will, it can only effect the number or quality of choices. Free will means the ability to choose from the available choices. If you aren't aware of a choice, then that choice is effectively, unavailable to you. In no way does a lack of choices limit free will. Free will cannot be limited by any non-violment means, there is absolutely no way to take away another's choices without murdering or severely incapacitating that person.

I agree, but I still say that the very knowledge of what is available to us necessarily places limitations on our power of self-direction (and therefore our free will, by your definition). You simply can’t choose to move in directions that you aren’t aware exist, or that you don’t believe are available to you.

I’m quite passionate about this because in my childhood I was not aware of the choices available to me, nor was a fully aware of my power of self-direction. I personally attribute this to poor mentorship in the society in which I was raised. Although, that certainly wasn’t the only factor. They may have been mental disorders in the mix too such a A.D.D. (Attention Deficit Disorder). These things can definitely restrict a person’s ability to make ‘good choices’, simply by blinding the person to the choices that are genuinely available, therefore their free will (or power of self-direction) is also limited.

In other words, even if the universe innately gave you the ‘power’ of free will, if you aren’t knowledgeable of what choices are truly available, then your free will is quite limited.

This is all I’m saying. Free will is ultimately dependent on knowledge and wisdom. An unwise person does not have the free will to make wise decisions, for example. They just don’t have the tools to do it! They can only make the wisest decisions within their realm of capability.

This doesn’t mean that they have no free will, but it certainly implies that their free will is limited with respect to the free will of someone who has the wisdom to make better choices.

I guess what I’m really trying to say is that everyone does not have the same level of free will because of this limiting factor of not being able to choose from things we aren’t even aware exist, or that we have come to believe are beyond our reach.

This is very very true. You can have a strong will, or a weak will. You can develop a better will. Self mastery is the development of a strong will. When a person can learn to self direct their their thoughts and actions they will become stronger and have more and more power over their own lives.

Knowledge and awareness are essential in the development of the will. All people have the potential to get there an utilize their will, but not all people will do this. It is there at their disposal none the less when they are ready for it.

Jeannie

This is ultimately what I’m saying.

I was brought up in a religious family that taught me that a supreme being has a plan for me and that I should leave everything in his hands.

Being taught that at a very young age gave me the impression that I’m not supposed to chose my own destiny. My job is to be good and the Lord will bring things into my life as he sees fit.

This can be very detrimental because instead of choosing how I would like to live my life I’m expecting some ‘heavenly father’ to be guiding me and bringing the opportunities to me that he wants me to have.

Had I been raised in a family that that taught that we had to make our own destiny in life I would have viewed the entire picture differently. I would have been aware that it was my job to choose my own path and there is no ‘heaven father’ who has a plan already laid out for me.

This is why I say that proper mentorship at an early age is imperative. A person can actually make all the wrong choices for all the ‘right’ reasons and ruin their life just because some fairytale they had been taught turns out not to be true.

I would have given anything to have been born into an atheistic family.

Our 'free will' is definitely affected by what we are taught to believe. Or at least how we use it, anyway!

Because the Will is defined by some as "the Soul Itself Exercising Self Direction" this to me implies a non-atheistic view. But an atheistic view is more prone to going after what one really wants rather than waiting to see what the universe might hand to you and drifting like a piece of wood in the ocean, going where the current takes you.

Most people do not have what they want in their life because they do not know what they want. Knowing what you want is the first step, and the most difficult one. It is difficult because there are so many influences telling us what we should want and what we need. For example: advertising.

Then religion also tells us what we should be doing and wanting. Society tells us what we should be doing and wanting.

Get married, settle down, raise a family, go to church, etc etc.
Don't do this, don't do that, don't think this way, think the way we think.

Propaganda is everywhere. No wonder we cannot get in touch with our own soul or our true self and what it desires.

I would tell people to listen to yourself and follow your passion. Go for what you want. Use your will to direct your attention on that, and for taking your attention off of the things you do not want. If you continue to place your attention on things you do not want, you will forever be getting the things you do not want.

Jeannie

As far as religion is concerned where the Will is concerned, from what I have learned talking to ministers, they seem to separate God's will and man's will as being two separate things.

I don't do this because I know that we are all one in the body of God. Therefor the WILL is directly connected to God. That is why it is so powerful that it can overcome programming, DNA, and conditioned response.

Jeannie

Exactly.

This is what I was taught to believe when I was growing up. I no longer believe this anymore. Now I am in total agreement with the view that you are expressing. I only wish I had been taught this view as a child. That would have drastically changed the way I applied my free will.

In short, it’s hard to view your will as being ‘free’ when you are taught that you are ultimately supposed to bow down to the ‘will’ of another.

You can’t simultaneously have ‘free will’ and serve under the ‘will’ of another. If you are serving under the will of another then you are forfeiting your own free will for the sake of appeasing the will of another.

That’s exactly my point.