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| Topic: Did God create evil? | |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Fri 02/08/08 07:05 AM
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According to Christianity,
The Bible consistently speaks of evil, spider... The Bible is 'Gods' word, spider... If the omni-god exists, then all you see is necessary, as a result of 'Gods' choice in what to create... Therefore by your own admission, this omni-'God' has created that, by creating all circumstance which leads up to that, knowingly... No matter if you like it not... The omni-god does not exist... You obviously cannot distinguish logic from strawman. You are a strawman. |
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Oh I agree we are responsible for our own actions, however you say God isn't all knowing then you say that God knows everything that has happened is happening and that will happen...isn't that all knowing? How can it be both? Your double talk confuses me tho..... Cohearant sentences with structure please. Zug Zug. God not all knowing. Macha! God only know those things which are true. Haraka. All knowing would imply that God knows all possible information, which isn't true. If God know everything, then God could judge the world without the world existing. TONDA! Atouk aluna Lana. |
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Oh I agree we are responsible for our own actions, however you say God isn't all knowing then you say that God knows everything that has happened is happening and that will happen...isn't that all knowing? How can it be both? Your double talk confuses me tho..... Cohearant sentences with structure please. Zug Zug. God not all knowing. Macha! God only know those things which are true. Haraka. All knowing would imply that God knows all possible information, which isn't true. If God know everything, then God could judge the world without the world existing. TONDA! Atouk aluna Lana. but if I lie then it is a truth that I lie, and there for God would know that I will lie. |
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According to Christianity, The Bible consistently speaks of evil, spider... The Bible is 'Gods' word, spider... Strawman. I didn't say that evil doesn't exist, I said that evil isn't necessary. If the omni-god exists, then all you see is necessary, as a result of 'Gods' choice in what to create... Poor logic. Evil is not necessary, it is a unfortunate consequence to free will. Therefore by your own admission, this omni-'God' has created that, by creating all circumstance which leads up to that, knowingly... Evil isn't a thing, it cannot be created. Evil is a moral judgement placed upon an action. No matter if you like it not... Not a big fan of strawman fallacies or poorly thought out logic. The omni-god does not exist... I've only seen that word used to describe gods which don't exist. You keep your "omni-god" and I'll stick with the living God. You obviously cannot distinguish logic from strawman. You are a strawman. I'm the strawman? Well I guess I should get to singin'. I could while away the hours Conferrin' with the flowers Consultin' with the rain And my head, I'd be scratchin' While my thoughts were busy hatchin' If I only had a brain. I'd unravel ev'ry riddle For any individ'le In trouble or in pain With the thoughts you'd be thinkin' You could be another Lincoln, If you only had a brain. Oh, I could tell you why The ocean's near the shore, I could think of things I never thunk before And then I'd sit and think some more. I would not be just a nuffin' My head all full of stuffin' My heart all full of pain. I would dance and be merry Life would be a ding-a-derry If I only had a brain--Whoa! The sum of the square roots of any two sides of an isosceles triangle is equal to the square root of the remaining side. Oh joy! Rapture! I got a brain! How can I ever thank you enough? |
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You must have darkness to know the light, and you must have light to know the darkness.
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Fri 02/08/08 07:29 AM
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For 'God' to be able to know what will happen, 'God' must also know then, what will not happen.
Talk about illogical... Atouk aluna Lana.  Ya wanna rephrase this... Volare? |
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but if I lie then it is a truth that I lie, and there for God would know that I will lie. Correct. That lie...say it's about your age. You tell someone today that you are 21. God knew about that lie when he created the universe, but ONLY because you would exist. God couldn't know about that lie and decide to never create you, that's a paradox. It would mean that God knew something that would never happen. |
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but if I lie then it is a truth that I lie, and there for God would know that I will lie. Correct. That lie...say it's about your age. You tell someone today that you are 21. God knew about that lie when he created the universe, but ONLY because you would exist. God couldn't know about that lie and decide to never create you, that's a paradox. It would mean that God knew something that would never happen. your logic is not cohearant.... I think you are taking it too deep, If I tell you I am 21, then God knew that I would tell you that I was 21, and he also knows all of the effects that it will cause. So hence and therefor...he knows. |
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For 'God' to be able to know what will happen, 'God' must also know then, what will not happen. Talk about illogical... Atouk aluna Lana. Ya wanna rephrase this... Volare? Caveman. Classic comedy starring Ringo Starr as the caveman Atouk in love with a cavewoman named Lana. "Atouk aluna Lana". Lily0923 said "Cohearant sentences with structure please", I felt that my sentences were coherent and well structured, so I made a post in cavemanese. It always sucks to have to explain the joke. |
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Fri 02/08/08 07:35 AM
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but if I lie then it is a truth that I lie, and there for God would know that I will lie. Correct. That lie...say it's about your age. You tell someone today that you are 21. God knew about that lie when he created the universe, but ONLY because you would exist. God couldn't know about that lie and decide to never create you, that's a paradox. It would mean that God knew something that would never happen. your logic is not cohearant.... I think you are taking it too deep, If I tell you I am 21, then God knew that I would tell you that I was 21, and he also knows all of the effects that it will cause. So hence and therefor...he knows. And that's exactly what I am saying. LISTEN: God couldn't know if it wasn't going to happen at some point. God knows how you will die, but ONLY because you have lived. That's the point I'm making. When someone says "God created Satan, even though he knew Satan would be evil", it's just silly. If God knew that Satan was going to be evil, Satan would have to exist. God couldn't know something that wasn't true. |
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but if I lie then it is a truth that I lie, and there for God would know that I will lie. Correct. That lie...say it's about your age. You tell someone today that you are 21. God knew about that lie when he created the universe, but ONLY because you would exist. God couldn't know about that lie and decide to never create you, that's a paradox. It would mean that God knew something that would never happen. your logic is not cohearant.... I think you are taking it too deep, If I tell you I am 21, then God knew that I would tell you that I was 21, and he also knows all of the effects that it will cause. So hence and therefor...he knows. And that's exactly what I am saying. LISTEN: God couldn't know if it wasn't going to happen at some point. God knows how you will die, but ONLY because you have lived. That's the point I'm making. When someone says "God created Satan, even though he knew Satan would be evil", it's just silly. If God knew that Satan was going to be evil, Satan would have to exist. God couldn't know something that wasn't true. your logic eludes me.... it's double talk.... you are using 2 statements that have no meaning or in anyway pertain to each other. |
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your logic eludes me.... it's double talk.... you are using 2 statements that have no meaning or in anyway pertain to each other. Paradox is a difficult concept and I'm not a good teacher. It makes perfect sense, but I'm not able to explain it properly. |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Fri 02/08/08 08:06 AM
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Strawman. I didn't say that evil doesn't exist, I said that evil isn't necessary. Strawman? I did not say that you said evil did not exist. Define strawman fallacy, for all to see. I base my words upon yours, not what I assume for you to say. What would be the comparitive value of divinity, if evil were not necessary spider? What would be considered 'good' if there were no bad to compare it against? Opposites of any given spectrum must exist for the other to have any value. Unnecessary evil exists. Therefore an all-loving creator 'God' cannot, unless that 'God' is not omniscient and/or omnipotent. Poor logic. Evil is not necessary, it is a unfortunate consequence to free will. Poor logic? Read the above question again. Free will does not exist. A creator 'God' is the only thing which can conceive through itself... freely. All else is conditioned response. Perception equals reality spider. Psychology 101 That which is perceived as real is real in it's affects. No matter of the accuracy concerning the truthfulness of the perception. Not a big fan of strawman fallacies or poorly thought out logic. I agree, which is why I have begun to extrapolate further, without, may I add, any logical refutation of my claims from you. I've only seen that word used to describe gods which don't exist. You keep your "omni-god" and I'll stick with the living God. It is not my omni-god, my friend. Here is where we may find be able to find common ground. Probably not though, should our previous discussions be indicative of what is to come. |
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The christian god created satan and being all knowing like he is he knew that satan would become his nemisis. So he created evil to serve his purpose of having an opposite force in the world to influence his beloved man into temptation. He/it is using evil for his own purpose of proving who is worthy of him/it. The christian god did create evil for his own agenda. it is written so in the bible.
Now as for the concept of evil not existing. Evil in the bible sense does not exist. It is not a force outside of our body that causes evil. Evil as we see evil is a part of all humans. Mostly due to mental illness. We have little understanding of mental illness. How it starts? If we are born with it? Etc..... |
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What would be the comparitive value of divinity, if evil were not necessary spider? What would be considered 'good' if there were no bad to compare it against? There is no reason for evil. Why do you need to have something to compare your existance to? You complain about evil and blame it on God and then argue that evil is necessary. Evil isn't necessary. It's NOT necessary for us to know the difference between good and evil, we simply have to trust God to know the difference for us. But because Adam and Eve thought they needed to know, we see the world like it is. Do you think the judgement is going to be God saying "You are such a terrible SOB". No, it's going to be God saying "Why couldn't you guys have just trusted me. You are so unhappy about all the evil in the world, but you created it all." Those of us who are accepted into heaven will no longer know the difference between good and evil. We will no longer be capable of going against God's will and that will be just fine, because God's will is for us to do good. The only thing that free will gives us is the opportunity to commit evil acts. THAT'S IT. Those people who are in heaven won't be able to conceive of evil. They won't desire evil. And the persuit of evil will be completely foreign to them. There will be no temptation. They won't see any reason to go against God's will. All of existance will be proof that good only comes from God. When we do good, we are obeying God. When we do bad, we are obeying ourselves. In the end, everyone will admit that God's way is right. God has already seen this happen, it's recorded in the Bible. |
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I wouldn't say God created Evil. Evil was brought into the universe by the fallen angel named now Satan. God created all being equal and gave them what's called free will. We have the power to choose what is right for us. Satan choose not to go along with the rules of the almighty so he brought evil into this world. And added to that, our first parents Adam and Eve did not follow the commendmant of God. They choose to eat the fruit. Satan and Us are the ones whom brought evil into this world.
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Think about this. If you lived in Hawaii, would you need to move to Siberia to enjoy it? No, not at all. If you lived in Siberia for awhile, then you would appreciate Hawaii more, but wouldn't be necessary to experiance Siberia to enjoy Hawaii. There is NO NEED for evil. None. All of that "You have to have evil to know what good is" crap makes me sick. Why do you need to know what good is to enjoy it? Would we all be better off in a world without pain or sickness or death? If we had pain and sickness and death, how could we enjoy a world without it? It's all contradictions. We weren't meant to live in a world of pain and in the end, there will be no more pain or suffering.
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Of course the notion of evil has to exist for the notion of good to have any relevance...
What is up without down...what is left without right ... Every concept has two ends of the spectrum ... two sides of the same coin... One cannot exist without the other ... because it would have no relevance ... no frame of reference... |
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Of course the notion of evil has to exist for the notion of good to have any relevance... What is up without down...what is left without right ... Every concept has two ends of the spectrum ... two sides of the same coin... One cannot exist without the other ... because it would have no relevance ... no frame of reference... Do you need to know good and evil to be happy? Would it be possible for someone to be happy without knowing good from evil? I don't know...like a small child. Have you ever, in your adult life, been as happy as a baby playing with a set of car keys? According to the Bible, mankind was made to be like that. Not knowing the difference between good and evil, just being happy and living with nature. Even if you didn't know what good was, you could still enjoy it. |
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What would be the comparitive value of divinity, if evil were not necessary spider? What would be considered 'good' if there were no bad to compare it against? There is no reason for evil. Why do you need to have something to compare your existance to? You complain about evil and blame it on God and then argue that evil is necessary. Evil isn't necessary. It's NOT necessary for us to know the difference between good and evil, we simply have to trust God to know the difference for us. But because Adam and Eve thought they needed to know, we see the world like it is. Do you think the judgement is going to be God saying "You are such a terrible SOB". No, it's going to be God saying "Why couldn't you guys have just trusted me. You are so unhappy about all the evil in the world, but you created it all." Those of us who are accepted into heaven will no longer know the difference between good and evil. We will no longer be capable of going against God's will and that will be just fine, because God's will is for us to do good. The only thing that free will gives us is the opportunity to commit evil acts. THAT'S IT. Those people who are in heaven won't be able to conceive of evil. They won't desire evil. And the persuit of evil will be completely foreign to them. There will be no temptation. They won't see any reason to go against God's will. All of existance will be proof that good only comes from God. When we do good, we are obeying God. When we do bad, we are obeying ourselves. In the end, everyone will admit that God's way is right. God has already seen this happen, it's recorded in the Bible. I have to say as I read through your posts you are trying very hard to make an illogical logical. There is no way to make the bible logical nor the god it teaches of, it is not logical. This is a long stretch of faith that must happen to believe the bible and it's god great plan for us. As for all of us knowing one day the plan of god, I beg to differ with you on that one. I have no fear of hell or heaven for they only exist in my life now, I make it either heaven or hell. So the fear factor of religion of being damned by the religious people or their god is not a fear of mine. You all can keep that fear to yourself. I know you feel the fear of questioning and that is why when faced with logic you will buck it and hate it. But not all of us are so inclined to accept this fear in our lives. As for the evil, god created evil so he could test his beloved humans. Without it how can he "see" who is worthy? If he was a truly loving god, he would accept ALL with no discrimination of sexual orientation, religion, background, etc..... He teaches discrimination and judgement which of themselves can be evil. |
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