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| Topic: How Most Charities Hurt the Poor | |
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Your plan has been suggested many times before and I, having worked for the welfare department, can give you all the reasons it never works.
1. Mental illness is rampant in the homeless community. Most are homeless because they are too mentally ill to live in the "normal" world. They cannot hold jobs, they cannot pay bills, they cannot function in "regular" society. 2. Being homeless is a cycle if not broken by the "leg up". If there is not mental illness and they can work but are homeless. They cannot shower to get a job. They have no clothing to get a job. They have no transportation to get to a job. It goes on and on. They have to have a "leg up". There are success stories. I was homeless at one time. I crawled out of it, it was difficult and people had to help me. Now on the welfare thing, people on welfare are no longer allowed to sit on the program and collect. I helped to create our welfare reform here in Colorado. Clinton implemented the Welfare Reform and it went into effect in the late 90s. Welfare recipients are required to be assessed and a plan of either school or work is implemented. If they do not do it they are taken off the program. If they fail too many times they are removed permanently. |
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People have no right to privacy when they are getting free money. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I know you agree with me but I just have to say it. If you get money from a bank they don't just gived it to you that would be dumb. What about the rights of people who are paying taxes. The money that they earn is taken from them and given to someone else without their consent. I call that taking away peoples rights. Things can be done to fix the problem, but anyone that says different is labeled as selfish, or cruel, and many other things. People don't see that welfare is a cruch not a fix. I surely hope for your sake you are never in a position of one of those of which you speak so downgrading of. For if you are and you have to ask for help and they tell you to go fish, you will surely know then what it is like. These people of means who always have GRAND ideas for those of no means are surely one of the greatest banes to the human race     
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I heard alot of the homeless are veterans. Imagine not helping them! Ungratefull kids with rose-colored glasses talking about not helping those that need it the most! Imagine that! Its almost as rediculous as electing GW President!! "Where there's more food than mouths to feed, where you'll find those who claim to lead, because of all their personal greed, they always want more than they need. They don't help those below the half, instead they stand aside & laugh, as if it's all we'll ever ask, when will they make a change" ~ Damion Marley Sorry, couldn't help myself, perfect lyrics for the subject;^] |
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Edited by
leahmarie
on
Tue 01/29/08 05:31 PM
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turtlepoet78..... I copied and posted part of your post ....
"You anti welfare people need to learn your facts ....NOBODY is given social security without a review process, and most EVERYBODY gets turned down 3 or 4 times first. I waited 6 years before I was finaly aprooved, and they do in fact offer incentaves to work, as a matter of fact they have specialised counslers through rehabilitation programs dedicated to helping folks find work. It never ceases to amaze me what people with no SSI experiance think they know about social security, as if $600 a month plus $10 food stamps is much of a "hand out". If you don't like paying for social security, move to mexico or iraq, I'm sure you'll manage; -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all, I am not anti-welfare. One needs to get facts straight. Secondly, I was talking about Pennsylvania. WELFARE DIFFERS FROM STATE TO STATE. Why should I and others who want Welfare reform move to Mexico? If we do so, there will be less people to pay taxes, which means less money for welfare and SSI benefits. WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN THAT TAXPAYER DOLLARS OF SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH PLUS FOOD STAMPS PLUS MEDICAL ASSISTANCE PLUS VARIOUS OTHER AIDS IS NOT ENOUGH, IT GIVES CAUSE FOR TAXPAYERS TO START THINKING ABOUT WELFARE REFORM AND REMOVING PEOPLE FROM THE PUBLIC DOLE. |
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Edited by
Tobias1540
on
Tue 01/29/08 06:21 PM
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You guys are right I have no pity for anyone on welfare. Bad things happen to everyone, and it is up to themselves to get out of the situation. You can call me what ever you want. I don't care.
Who ever said I don't want to help people? I certianly never did. I just think of helping people in a different way to you. And I think that we should not help africa out. There is nothing we can do there. I know it seems heartless, but you know what thats what I believe. And cutelildevilsmom if you are getting free money from the government you have no right to financial nor personal privacy. It would be different if you were given loans, then you should get privacy, but you don't. I don't know your cituation so I will not generalize, but I should not have to pay for your bad mariges. You have no right to take away the money I earn. And thats just what taxes do. They take away money from me in the form of taxes to give it to you. Addictions are something you can control and I have no pity for people who get addicted. I have made the concius decision not to do drugs, and people who disregaurd that deserve what they get. I am sorry that is a personal choice that they have to deal with the conciquences. And I have not attacked anyones character or the validity of thier ideas because I have logic to back my opinions up with, unlike the people who argue with me. I have not heard one peice of evidence or fact to back up your attacks. (excuse my bad spelling) |
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@ leahmarie You still don't seem to understand, noones complaining about getting benefits, the point is anyone who thinks it's enough to "abuse" is in for a rude awakening.
Here, you can get extra per child, a whopping $25 per child, almost enough to buy diapers. And I'm not the one who'd suffer much from abolishing any form of assistance, I'm almost off the assistance anyway, but I can just imagine you having to look the homeless and disabled population in the eye, the people you just cut off from having any hope at all. Again we here, "doers and do nothingers", well get off it because government assistance is going to disapear, and even if it did it'd soon be back because it wouldn't stand for long. I say, if anti welfare people lose everything then lets see them live up to their ideals by refusing assistance even when no jobs can be found. I'm done, it's pointless;^] |
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You guys are right I have no pity for anyone on welfare. Bad things happen to everyone, and it is up to themselves to get out of the situation. You can call me what ever you want. I don't care. Who ever said I don't want to help people? I certianly never did. I just think of helping people in a different way to you. And I think that we should not help africa out. There is nothing we can do there. I know it seems heartless, but you know what thats what I believe. And cutelildevilsmom if you are getting free money from the government you have no right to financial nor personal privacy. It would be different if you were given loans, then you should get privacy, but you don't. I don't know your cituation so I will not generalize, but I should not have to pay for your bad mariges. You have no right to take away the money I earn. And thats just what taxes do. They take away money from me in the form of taxes to give it to you. Addictions are something you can control and I have no pity for people who get addicted. I have made the concius decision not to do drugs, and people who disregaurd that deserve what they get. I am sorry that is a personal choice that they have to deal with the conciquences. And I have not attacked anyones character or the validity of thier ideas because I have logic to back my opinions up with, unlike the people who argue with me. I have not heard one peice of evidence or fact to back up your attacks. (excuse my bad spelling) My "attacks" were completely logical and sent your high horse right down the street. You are very judgemental of those whose shoes you haven't walked in. It shows your ignorance. Again I will say those with means who judge those without have always brought the human race down with their lack of empathy for others and you just prove it over and over. |
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Actually nothing you have said has changed any of my opinions. I have not said that welfare is totally a bad thing. I said that the way it is done now is not right. I am not judgemental, I just have no pity. I just think that there are better ways to help people. Why is welfare reform such a bad thing?
And Dragoness I wasn't talking about you in my last post. Your posts have been the best that I have seen against my opinion. I am not the close minded one. The mark of an open mind is to think about a new idea without accepting them. Thats what I am doing I am listining to other ideas, and am saying why i disagree with them. |
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turtlepoet..... my objection to people being on welfare are those who do nothing to help themselves. if someone is on welfare, why can't that person go to school while they are on welfare and not working ..... if school is not an option, volunteer somewhere where he/she can learn a skill ..... if those things are not available, go to the library and learn computer skills ..... too many people on welfare sit back and take the money .... they need to be preparing themselves for the job market so they can get off the public dole .... additionally I resent people who say the welfare is not enough ....
I was left with two young children, ages 3 and 6, no money of any kind coming in. I had no skills since I married young and did not work during the marriage. I got two jobs at two different places, minimum wage, where I worked during the day, evenings and Saturdays. There was no way I was going to take welfare. This was 29 years ago before the computer age. I also rented a typewriter and taught myself how to type, which enabled me to get a job as a typist a year later. At that point I only had to work one job. So I went to secretarial school in the evening, graduated in less than a year and got a job as a secretary. About that time computers came out. I went to evening school once more and learned computer technology. This pushed me up once more in the job market where I had a lot of earning power. Finally, I went to college and earned not one but two degrees. I found that the government, even though I was older, was willing to give me grants and loans, which I took and paid back. Currently I am working on my third degree. The point is I went out and pullled myself up by the boot straps, because I never wanted to go back to that time where I earned minimum wage again. If I could do it; others can. |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Tue 01/29/08 10:14 PM
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turtlepoet..... my objection to people being on welfare are those who do nothing to help themselves. if someone is on welfare, why can't that person go to school while they are on welfare and not working ..... if school is not an option, volunteer somewhere where he/she can learn a skill ..... if those things are not available, go to the library and learn computer skills ..... too many people on welfare sit back and take the money .... they need to be preparing themselves for the job market so they can get off the public dole .... additionally I resent people who say the welfare is not enough .... I was left with two young children, ages 3 and 6, no money of any kind coming in. I had no skills since I married young and did not work during the marriage. I got two jobs at two different places, minimum wage, where I worked during the day, evenings and Saturdays. There was no way I was going to take welfare. This was 29 years ago before the computer age. I also rented a typewriter and taught myself how to type, which enabled me to get a job as a typist a year later. At that point I only had to work one job. So I went to secretarial school in the evening, graduated in less than a year and got a job as a secretary. About that time computers came out. I went to evening school once more and learned computer technology. This pushed me up once more in the job market where I had a lot of earning power. Finally, I went to college and earned not one but two degrees. I found that the government, even though I was older, was willing to give me grants and loans, which I took and paid back. Currently I am working on my third degree. The point is I went out and pullled myself up by the boot straps, because I never wanted to go back to that time where I earned minimum wage again. If I could do it; others can. I worked for the welfare department and determined welfare benefits for people and there are several things you are not considering I will indulge you this time. 1. is the consideration of mental capability to function in the "normal" world. Mentally ill people are running around the world not getting any care cause they do not know they are mentally ill, that is part of the illness they have no idea of what is wrong. 2. We have to determine if there is a support system for them, ie family to help them 3. We have to comply with federal requirements for child support and get them to file, as the feds require the fathers to pay back the welfare recieved by his children. 4. We have to determine if they need schooling to be employable if so can we do it the time frame allowed by the welfare reform laws, which require that a recipient cannot be on welfare for more than two years at a time, lifetime of 5 years. 5. If going to school or work we then have to set up daycare for them and check if they have work clothes to interview for a job 6. After we evaluate all of these simple things then we deal with all the extra stuff, women running from abusers, kids being abused, etc...... If they do not cooperate in a short period of time to go to school or work they are penalized the first time of not getting any help for 30 days, if they do it again they cannot get benefits for 90 days, if they fail this time they are cut off for life. So now, in all of this please tell me how they are sitting on their asses getting welfare? If you do not believe me call your local welfare office and ask to recieve the qualifications for welfare. You will find that noone gets to sit on their asses. Clinton changed this law in the late 90s. |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Tue 01/29/08 10:13 PM
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turtlepoet..... my objection to people being on welfare are those who do nothing to help themselves. if someone is on welfare, why can't that person go to school while they are on welfare and not working ..... if school is not an option, volunteer somewhere where he/she can learn a skill ..... if those things are not available, go to the library and learn computer skills ..... too many people on welfare sit back and take the money .... they need to be preparing themselves for the job market so they can get off the public dole .... additionally I resent people who say the welfare is not enough .... I was left with two young children, ages 3 and 6, no money of any kind coming in. I had no skills since I married young and did not work during the marriage. I got two jobs at two different places, minimum wage, where I worked during the day, evenings and Saturdays. There was no way I was going to take welfare. This was 29 years ago before the computer age. I also rented a typewriter and taught myself how to type, which enabled me to get a job as a typist a year later. At that point I only had to work one job. So I went to secretarial school in the evening, graduated in less than a year and got a job as a secretary. About that time computers came out. I went to evening school once more and learned computer technology. This pushed me up once more in the job market where I had a lot of earning power. Finally, I went to college and earned not one but two degrees. I found that the government, even though I was older, was willing to give me grants and loans, which I took and paid back. Currently I am working on my third degree. The point is I went out and pullled myself up by the boot straps, because I never wanted to go back to that time where I earned minimum wage again. If I could do it; others can. I worked for the welfare department and determined welfare benefits for people and there are several things you are not considering I will endulge you this time. 1. is the consideration of mental capability to function in the "normal" world. Mentally ill people are running around the world not getting any care cause they do not know they are mentally ill, that is part of the illness they have no idea of what is wrong. 2. We have to determine if there is a support system for them, ie family to help them 3. We have to comply with federal requirements for child support and get them to file, as the feds require the fathers to pay back the welfare recieved by his children. 4. We have to determine if they need schooling to be employable if so can we do it the time frame allowed by the welfare reform laws, which require that a recipient cannot be on welfare for more than two years at a time, lifetime of 5 years. 5. If going to school or work we then have to set up daycare for them and check if they have work clothes to interview for a job 6. After we evaluate all of these simple things then we deal with all the extra stuff, women running from abusers, kids being abused, etc...... If they do not cooperate in a short period of time to go to school or work they are penalized the first time of not getting any help for 30 days, if they do it again they cannot get benefits for 90 days, if they fail this time they are cut off for life. So now, in all of this please tell me how they are sitting on their asses getting welfare? If you do not believe me call your local welfare office and ask to recieve the qualifications for welfare. You will find that noone gets to sit on their asses. Clinton changed this law in the late 90s. *******Before we do all of this we determine citizenship by requesting all forms of ID they have and if not citizens sending it to the INS to find out if they legally here, if they are legally here they are not eligible for any welfare and can only get foodstamps after they have been here legally for 5 years or more. If they are illegal the federal government says they get nothing nada, no welfare, no foodstamps, no medicaid. If citizens then we go forward to step one. |
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Actually nothing you have said has changed any of my opinions. I have not said that welfare is totally a bad thing. I said that the way it is done now is not right. I am not judgemental, I just have no pity. I just think that there are better ways to help people. Why is welfare reform such a bad thing? And Dragoness I wasn't talking about you in my last post. Your posts have been the best that I have seen against my opinion. I am not the close minded one. The mark of an open mind is to think about a new idea without accepting them. Thats what I am doing I am listining to other ideas, and am saying why i disagree with them. If I assumed you one of those of means that judges those of no means because they have never walked in their shoes and feel all unemployed are just lazy assholes and I was wrong, sorry, you came off that way. |
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Dragoness......
you are not reading my posts. so once again I will repeat. I am talking about Pennsylvania. each state has different laws pertaining to welfare. in Pennsylvania people on welfare are not required nor can they be forced to go out and look for work. |
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You guys are right I have no pity for anyone on welfare. Bad things happen to everyone, and it is up to themselves to get out of the situation. You can call me what ever you want. I don't care. Who ever said I don't want to help people? I certianly never did. I just think of helping people in a different way to you. And I think that we should not help africa out. There is nothing we can do there. I know it seems heartless, but you know what thats what I believe. And cutelildevilsmom if you are getting free money from the government you have no right to financial nor personal privacy. It would be different if you were given loans, then you should get privacy, but you don't. I don't know your cituation so I will not generalize, but I should not have to pay for your bad mariges. You have no right to take away the money I earn. And thats just what taxes do. They take away money from me in the form of taxes to give it to you. Addictions are something you can control and I have no pity for people who get addicted. I have made the concius decision not to do drugs, and people who disregaurd that deserve what they get. I am sorry that is a personal choice that they have to deal with the conciquences. And I have not attacked anyones character or the validity of thier ideas because I have logic to back my opinions up with, unlike the people who argue with me. I have not heard one peice of evidence or fact to back up your attacks. (excuse my bad spelling) Excuse me but I pay taxes also.I payed taxes since I was 16.Like I said I work.I have subsidized rent.Which since I pay taxes,I'm helping to pay for.Sometimes people need help.Lots of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck .So your not paying for my bad marriages ,I contribute also.Your character is showing thru your obvious resentment of poor folk asking for help .I have a right to privacy subsidized rent or not.People on welfare are reviewed also and yes have a right to privacy because they are still citizens of this country.As far as I know the bill of rights doesn't have an ammendment which says everyone has rights except welfare or ssi people. |
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