Ok, so can we agree that both of us maybe misread the others words?

I think I can agree to that.

All right! Everyone have a good night, it's time to get some sleep here....

TO SkepticalBrian:

IMHO, the debates/discussions aren't geared towards converting/deconverting anyone. No, I think the debates/discussions are meant for the "fence sitters", or the people who may not have really thought about the logical, moral or ethical consequences of the various truth-claims out there. While some individuals will only seek out information that confirms their beliefs, and persevere with those beliefs regardless, I'd like to believe that some people will read these posts to better understand the viewpoints of theists and non-theists. Perhaps they'll become a little more critically minded in the process. To me, that's what makes this all worthwhile.

perhaps it is i that is wrong and perceived a forum to be somewhat "debatable" in the sense that everyone has their own opinion and beliefs

In that respect you would be having a discussion not a debate, at least that's is how I would interpret it. I do like discussions about things, because then you see other people's ideas and beliefs.

yah, i guess your right in the sense that it would be more of a discussion than a debate, but I think that a lot of discussions, form into a debate. Ones opinion could form a debate depending on the structure of their opinion.

Anyways, back to beliefs...a belief is as much as a strong felt desire than a strong impression. Everyone is entitled.

You might enjoy Plato. I found this particular sentence extremely important in your message to this forum. As a once Christian your implications is something else is willing you. I find that interesting, and understanding. CS Lewis went through some very interesting experiences atheism in non-belief prior to his coming back to faith. While, your conclusion are of your mind, it also is part of your heart. Do you believe in the soverienty of the whole Will of God? I am more relationship belonging Christian. Just FYI Take Care

I agree with what you have said. I too am so tired of debate. I still say that it is only our desire to prove we are right and to prove to the rest of the world we are right. Yet do we know how to hear, do we have understnading. I still beleive but at times everything about what it is suppose to be is so wrong.

Even how I beleive with this, saying that I agree, in no way matters to the vlaidity of your statement. Maybe I wish to say, I am not here to debate with you, but to support you in the life you wish to live. I think people ought to beleive in each other, to support each other. Maybe it is not so much about agreeing on what we beleive but that we agree to love, to respect, to accpet each other for who we are. That is what we should always do before we do anything else.

We should expand on each others thinking, to take it further, to seek for the truth and direction in which it would take us, rather than to take a position on it. I amy not agree with abortion, but should my feelings and beleifs dictate how others should live, amybe I could ask for the person to consider options, and if they can not and if there are not options then perhaps in this tramatic experience recieve support and not judgment. Many live with the burden of this for the rest of their lives, do I need to add a weight on that. Do not the wars government and religions cause more death than all of abortions. Yet even in this it is not the soldier was is dying for the country that he beleives in that has done any wrong, but the hatred of men over creed, power and possessions.

Does it matter for those who agree with me or not. Perhaps what matters is if we treat each others with kindness and respect, no matter what we believe, there is no one here who has been made judge over the rest. We ought to only be judge over our own doings and that we live to the standard of the faith that is within us and hopefully that love for others wins out in our own lives.

at 19 Bri, your way more ahead of the game than alot of people I know.

Keep the faith, or rather keep the faith that when you die there is nothing else (sorry, my poor attempt at a athiest joke)

word


you say let everyone be and live in harmony, i say let me be and debate. it's useless to tell me not to, i've already made my mind up that i am doing so


i was not raised with much church nor have i ever read any athiesm books. my beliefs are my own and influenced by what i can see and feel. imho, there is no god. if someone wants to debate this, i'm more than willing to do so.

Faith, religion, whatever you wanna call it,we ALL practice it in some form or another. For some of us, it's God or several gods, for others it's science, other's it's money.
The simple matter is, faith is what YOU believe to help get you by.
What's important, more important than anything else, is the message that almost every "god" based religion tries to send us.
Love and or respect your fellow man.
We tend to forget that one thing. And it's not just a God thing, it's a common sense thing.
The other important thing is to have some level of spirituality.
Even psychiatry today is putting more emphasis on spirituality being necessary for good mental/emotional health.
As humans, we have a much ignored but very basic need. The need to be a part of something greater. The desire to believe in SOMETHING. No matter if it's God, or gods or science et al.
That being said, those who debunk creationism by referring to it as a wild fairy tale must understand that THEIR belief in how the Earth and all it's life came about is just as fantastic and far fetched. Remember, the scientists STILL refer to it all as just theory, NOT PROVEN FACT!

Public Animal?.....Hey! I think I know that guy!!
Hey Animal, my friend, how the hell are ya?

I'm fine and dandy lily how you been keeping?
Good to see you again

Too add to my earlier post, I too used to be a church goer. Been to many different denominations of church too. Presbyterian, United, Catholic, Baptist, Mennonite Brethren, Anglican. Then once I saw the hypocracy of it all, I quit going.
I didn't lose my faith in God(altho it has been shaken to the core at times), I lost my faith in Man.