Im also waiting for your apology yzrabbit1..
I accept.

whats wrong yzrabbit1?
did something happen to your post?
omg! I hope is ok!

Congratulations on your 3000th post. I can't imagine anyone that has probably done more good with his comments and writing then you.

I didn't need it cause you finally came to your senses.

If that full picture of yours is founded on 'Master Lubenow' book 'Bones of Contention', I would strongly recommend giving your optometrist a call!!!

As for provoking thought, nothing sourced out of 'bible inerrancy' dogma, and militarily defended through redundant 'apologetics' leftovers, can harldly be referred to as thought provoking.


I dont need luck, I already know that my ground is solid.


Again, before you insist we read his book, maybe you should read some reviews. Here is a taste of one :

'... Review: Bones of Contention :
... the book fails badly and will not convince anyone familiar with the details of the literature on human evolution...'

read the whole review :
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_lubenow.html

You were saying: '... I don't need luck, I know my ground is solid ?!?!?...'
To some, moving sands can appear to be 'solid ground', if they have attempted their whole life to walk on ...
... WATER !!!

You just posted a bunch of crap that I never even said and claim that it's "my logic".

Excuse me, but you aren't even making coherent sense, are you on drugs or something?

You claimed that it makes no sense that the universe just POPPED into existence, and yet you claim that it makes perfect sense to think that God just POPPED into existence.

Funches got you nailed to the wall on that one bud. You just avoid the question altogether. I can only assume that you don’t understand the question.



I already answered that question once. Are you hard of comprehending?

I have no need to feel threatened by anything? Everything I believe in fits together like a glove. My spirituality is in perfect harmony with physical reality.

You’re the one who seems to be in a panic about evolution.

Why are you so threatened by evolution? Clearly you believe that your religion would fall apart if evolution is true. So I can see your desperation there. It doesn’t need to be that way though. I explained before that there are a lot of Christians who have come to accept evolution and not be threatened by it.



If that’s true then why do you feel so threatened by evolution?

I've already told you that there are ways to accept evolution and maintain a belief in Christianity. Many Christians have done this already. You’ll make it through this crisis.

Christianity survived many discoveries of science. It’ll most likely survive the discovery of evolution too. It’s just another bump in the road. Don’t take it so hard. The sooner you accept it the easier it will be to swallow.

Thank you so much for your kind and inspirational words Reverend.

Thank God for reviews.

Amen brother.

God is Love.

Well the comet theory, I heard was a cult but I suppose you could be right as religions get bizarre in their beliefs sometimes. Creationism may have washed many years ago but we know today that incestuous unions are not good for the genetic pool so we now know this cannot be a factual, viable way of life beginning. So if the comet thing goes through it will be as bizarre as incestuous creationism, right?

Amen right back 'Abra' !!!

And multo congrats on your 3000th !!!

Without your spirit, brights and generous tenacity, all those false prophets in training might have thought they had landed in the promised land of proselitizing!!!

Here is to you my friend !!!

Hey Voileazur,

That is uncanny. Martin Luther King said "I have seen the promise land" and its MLK day today. Are you trying to say something?

Bearsman

LOL!!!!!!!
So you wont even admit your error?
not to mention trying to cover up the bs with that last line!

As I said, I’ve got homework to do. So I’m doing a cut and paste from another thread and poster. It saves me time and projects the sentiment I have and saves us all the trouble of attempting to TEACH to those who are too lazy or too blind to find knowledge for themselves.



Journal of Heredity
Evolution
Molecular Biology and Evolution
Trends in Ecology and Evolution
Journal of Mammalian Evolution
Open Evolution Journal <===freely available online
Ethology Ecology & Evolution
Infection, Genetics and Evolution
Journal of Human Evolution
Acta Zoologica: Morphology and Evolution - Journal
Semiotics, Evolution, Energy, and Development
Journal of. Paleontology
International Journal of Systematic and Evolutionary Microbiology
Journal of Systematic Palaeontology
Systematic Entomology
Australian Systematic Botany
Systematic and Applied Microbiology
Systematic Biology
Systematic Botany
International Journal of Systematic Bacteriology
Systematic Parasitology
Systematic & Applied Acarology Special Publications
The Proceedings of the Japanese Society of Systematic Zoology
Journal of Systematic Biology at Susquehanna University
Systematic Zoology
Phyloinformatics<===freely available online
Cladistics
Journal of Dinosaur Paleontology
Journal of Biogeography
Journal of Evolutionary Biology
Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research
Development Genes and Evolution
Invertebrate Systematics
Annals of human genetics
Evolutionary ecology
Evolutionary ecology research
Global ecology and biogeography
Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics

Again, before you insist we read his book, maybe you should read some reviews. Here is a taste of one :

'... Review: Bones of Contention :
... the book fails badly and will not convince anyone familiar with the details of the literature on human evolution...'

read the whole review :
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_lubenow.html

You were saying: '... I don't need luck, I know my ground is solid ?!?!?...'
To some, moving sands can appear to be 'solid ground', if they have attempted their whole life to walk on ...
... WATER !!!




No no no no,

"Bone of Contention - Is Evolution True?" by Syliva Baker M.Sc.

I havent read Bones of contention.

Yea too bad its the WRONG book.

What error are you talking about this time? You haven't found one yet.

What started it all, how did the universe become animated, get set in motion? What elements had to be introduced, and where did they come from? Exactly, what was required for all the ‘right’ elements to come together, within the animation process to form the kinds of ‘living’ three dimensional forms that exist?

In response to these questions there is the theory that only intelligent design could have had the ability, foresight, and power to create, oversee, and continue to be an inspirational and creative force. This theory is a belief only, at this time. There is no way to disprove or prove the validity of such beliefs.

However, we can discuss what considerations we might extend to the theory of intelligent design. But first are we really discussing ‘intelligent’ design? The very idea would, logically, lead to an entity, or to a collective intelligence, that may or may not consist of individual characteristics or tendencies.

Either way, if intelligent design is the creative force than we must conclude that such intelligence, is still equated to ‘entity or entities’ that are, in some way, limited or confined by whatever forces contain it or that it is contained in. In other words, we could not assign to such a being or beings the capability of ‘creating’ simply by the process of thought alone. Unless, of course, all we are and all we precieve and all we think are merely illusion. But that idea was dispelled by philosophy.

Is there any here who would deny that there is movement and motion within and throughout the universe that we know? Is there any here who would deny that we and all we know are given validity through our senses and that this validity is inherent of the mass and form and are affected and driven by this motion?

These things alone must mean that IF intelligent design is the motivator than that intelligence could not have created the raw materials through thought alone. But because those who believe in a deity as the ‘intelligence” behind the design theory, then magic is attributed to that deity.

How can we prove or disprove magic? There is no science that relates to the physical world and the properties that are inherent in the environment of the physical that can begin to delve into a logical, quantifiable study, if the object of study is magic.

Therefore, those who seek to “teach” intelligent design in schools must be willing to dismiss their belief, when that belief lies in a deity whose power is to create and control by thought and magic alone. Of course if those who believe in a deity as a creative/intelligent designer relinquish such beliefs in lieu of teaching a theory of intelligent design, then what exactly would be taught? Simply put, we do not have the answers, scientifically, to disprove that our very being was not “originated” through a series of intelligent interventions. DONE: end of lesson.

Now, what we do have to teach is what we have discovered. It seems that most would agree that evolution does exist. We know that a virus can mutate, we know that humans can form natural immunities; we know this happens through evolution. We also know that there are multitudes of extinct species and many links that would indicate that change has occurred leading to continuation of life through change, and not through continued and immediate changes from the intelligent designer/s. AGAIN we are, as logical beings, making assumptions to think this way, but not without sufficient evidence to keep this train of logic in the face of unknowns.

If we truly believed that our existence was only quantified by the allowance of some all powerful intelligent designers, than why would we ever consider medicine? What good is there in any science when we are totally and ‘absolutely’ at the mercy, as individuals and as a species, to the whim of an all controlling, other intelligence?

So science carries on with qualified knowns and hypothesis, from our questions of the unknown and our research that must be tested, verified, quantified, which leads to hypothesis anew and the uncounted experiments, that give us more information until we have enough to predict with a measure of accuracy, and then we begin the cycle again. Small steps, occasional leaps but an ever growing database of qualified knowns from which to proceed.

So this is what we teach, this is how we get the answers to continue to grow, to be healthy, to assure the continuance of our species. If we believed only in magic, we would surely succumb to sickness, starvation and the elements, soon enough, and put an end to any questions we might have.

These things I present can not be denied, not in a world where all, but a handful of the most extremely ardent magical deity believers, partake of all the useful health equivalents that science has put at our disposal. Look in your medicine cabinet. Why is health care so vigorously sought at the federal level, who would not take an ailing family member to the emergency room?

Believe in whatever you will, but teach our children that which has the greatest capability of advancing and maintaining the continuance of the species. Such teaching can not be without ethics, it can not be without conscience but it can not include magic.

So I contend that all this arguing can only be to support a belief system. Or the arguments would contain the “science” behind HOW and WHAT to teach that would add to the progression and the answers to support “with scientific knowns” a course of study with regards to ‘intelligent design”. In the end this is just another battle of deity belief systems versus the science that conflicts with those beliefs.

In essence a loosing battle!

You cleary dont see the ignorant mindset that asks the question "How can there be a Being that has always been?"

Thats why I asked those obscure questions; because they cant be answered JUST like this one.

You act as since the question cannot be answered = debunked Christianity.
Do you understand now what I am saying?



Where did I claim that "it makes perfect sense to think that God just POPPED into existence." ?
You're getting quite emotional over this arguement, I dont think are emotionally stable to engage in a discussion such as this.
why?
because you reframe my statements to be something I never stated.
i know you're not doing this on purpose so the only reason to be reacting this way is because you feel threatened.
Could be wrong..



As I said before we as humans dont have the mental capacity (that means intelligence) to understand a concept where a Being as always been.


Thats not avoiding anything.
Thats outlining the ignorance in the mindset that suggests that we ARE able to understand such a thing.

"if you dont like scary answers, dont ask scary questions."
How can Something exist before TIME itself existed???

Just because the Bible doesnt explain certain things doesnt conclude that it is invalid.



When I speak to someone Abra I dont use quotations when I speak to them unless I am quoting myself from a previous post.



I am the same, but only one of us is correct.
Because you fail to see the flaws of evolution ___________ (fill in the gaps!)



rofl, I've already made my rebuttal to this.



True, there are many many Christians that believe in both; incl Sylvia Baker (the Author of Bone of Contention, Is evolution true? )
But after the arguements that arose about the evolution of the eye within her years at college she realised that (in combination with the abundant evidence of the Great Flood) that it is impossible to believe in both.

[quote[


If that’s true then why do you feel so threatened by evolution?


Already replied to this; see previous post on why I LOVE (not being sarcastic) evolution!



Christianity survived many discoveries of science. It’ll most likely survive the discovery of evolution too. It’s just another bump in the road. Don’t take it so hard. The sooner you accept it the easier it will be to swallow.


(my emphasis)
lol your confidence (or ignorance?) is hilarious!

lol incestuous...is that your favorite word?
Im not even going to dignify "incestuous creationism" with a response.
and you people say my statements are ludicrous.

The next religion I think is going to be just as (or maybe more) insane than spontaneous generation.
Definitely involving some kind of 'aliens'...like the 'lizardmen' that apparently live inside the earth....Bush is one of them they say.