thanks....love and light sister

The Law Of Three
"Do What Tho Wilt, But Harm None"
They all have this in common, our faiths are in good nature and not of bad.

I started to add more to this, but it started to sway off subject so cut it short..lol sorry

i would really be interested in learning all the differences and what they stand for......

There is sooo much to learn.
But if u have msn here is a link to one of my groups, you can join, there is alot of info in thier. I will eccept you on apply, sorry msn is messed up they only way I can do it..
here is the link
http://groups.msn.com/TheTripleGoddess drop in browser,
BB & Mp
GeminiGoddess

i definately will...thanks....love and light and many blessings

No Wicca is not just for women.
It is for men alike.
If you believe that the earth yo live on is a sacred place, if you love animals, if you love all Nature, if you love to look at the Moon and make Wishes, any one can become a Wiccan, you just have to be open minded, and be willing as a a man to feel some of the inner self as the more I'll say fem side, not a bad thing.
The Goddesss is the main in the faith, but as the God is Her Consort, and depending on which trad you go with either can be of alittle more or less of Divinity.

So No it isn't just for Women, Men can be Wiccans, and on with the Godddess and Gods too

I am Eclectic / Dianic

okay theres six different ones to pick from....which one??

Thank you, GeminiGoddess.

Good Night All!!
May the Goddess Protect you .
Sweet Dreams

Love & Light
GeminiGoddess

I posted the following in tomie's thread, "philosophy and doctrine of witchcraft" and I thought it be appropriate to post it here as well. It covers a lot of the questions already asked and then some. Not to mention it's good to get the perspective of more than one Pagan, right GeminiGoddess?

What is Paganism?
The word "pagan" comes from the Latin word "paganus" which meant "civilian" or "country dweller." "Paganus" is also related to the Latin word "pagus" which means "the country district." Early in the Christian church's history the churches were mainly found in the larger cities, which meant that the majority of city dwellers were Christians. However, the further outside of the city you went you would find less and less Christians. In fact you would find those who still practiced the land's native religion/spiritual practices. City dwelling Christians referred to such people in a derrogatory was as "pagans." The same can be said of the word "heathen" which originally meant "one who lives on the heath." In modern times Paganism refers to any religion that is not of Christian, Judaic, or Islamic origins.

How old is it?
It's as old as humankind... as old as humankind began looking towards something other than themselves as the creators of life. It's definately older than Christianity.

Is it a religion?
I don't think it's one specific religion, but rather a specific title which many different religions and spiritual beliefs come under.

What are the beliefs/ practices/ rituals within Paganism?
Because Paganism is merely a title which many different religions and spiritual beliefs fall under, there are far too many different beliefs, practices, and rituals to be described here.

What is Wicca? Wicca is a nature-based neo-pagan religion popularized in the mid 1950 by a man by the name of Gerald Gardner. The first tradition (denomination if you will) of Wicca he created is called Gardnerian Wicca. Since then many other traditions of Wicca have popped having roots in the core beliefs of Gardnerian Wicca. However, some more modern traditions of Wicca, such as Dianic Wicca, pretend to be an authentic form of Wicca, but in reality they are nothing more than a feminazi all girls club that do not even acknowledge Gods at all but focus only on Goddess worship. By Wicca's very nature it's core beliefs is that the God and Goddess are equal and both work together. So in my opinion Dianic Wicca is not a tradition of Wicca at all and should just be called Dianic Witches. One last thing on Wicca, the word Wicca and Pagan are not interchangeable. Not all Pagans are Wiccans but all Wiccans are certainly Pagans.

What is Witchcraft? Witchcraft is not a religion. Witchcraft is the practice of Magick. Aleister Crowley said that "Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will." One doesn't need to have a belief in a Higher Power to perform Witchcraft (Magick). An atheist can practice Witchcraft (Magick) if they wanted to. But having a belief in a Higher Power certainly doesn't hurt one's performance as a Witch. Witchcraft can coupled with any religion in the world... even Christianity... and yes I can back up my claims.

I would like to add something about "The Wiccan Rede" because someone has already brought it up. Far too many believe that the terms Wiccans, Witches, and Pagans are all interchangeable terms... they are not. Because so many believe that the terms are interchangeable they also believe that all Wiccans, Pagans and Witches alike must abide by The Wiccan Rede. This is simply not true. I would like to talk a bit about The Wiccan Rede...

Main Entry: 1rede
Pronunciation: 'rEd
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English -- more at READ
1 archaic : to give counsel to : ADVISE
2 archaic : INTERPRET, EXPLAIN

Main Entry: 2rede
Function: noun
1 archaic : COUNSEL, ADVICE
2 archaic : ACCOUNT, STORY


The Wiccan Rede
Full Version

Bide within the Law you must, in perfect Love and perfect Trust.
Live you must and let to live, fairly take and fairly give.

For tread the Circle thrice about to keep unwelcome spirits out.
To bind the spell well every time, let the spell be said in rhyme.

Light of eye and soft of touch, speak you little, listen much.
Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
let love and light be our guides again.

Deosil go by the waxing moon, chanting out the joyful tune.
Widdershins go when the moon doth wane,
and the werewolf howls by the dread wolfsbane.

When the Lady's moon is new, kiss the hand to Her times two.
When the moon rides at Her peak then your heart's desire seek.

Heed the North winds mighty gale, lock the door and trim the sail.
When the Wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.

When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss you on the mouth.
When the wind whispers from the West, all hearts will find peace and rest.

Nine woods in the Cauldron go, burn them fast and burn them slow.
Birch in the fire goes to represent what the Lady knows.

Oak in the forest towers with might, in the fire it brings the God's
insight. Rowan is a tree of power causing life and magick to flower.

Willows at the waterside stand ready to help us to the Summerland.
Hawthorn is burned to purify and to draw faerie to your eye.

Hazel-the tree of wisdom and learning adds its strength to the bright fire burning.
White are the flowers of Apple tree that brings us fruits of fertility.

Grapes grow upon the vine giving us both joy and wine.
Fir does mark the evergreen to represent immortality seen.

Elder is the Lady's tree burn it not or cursed you'll be.
Four times the Major Sabbats mark in the light and in the dark.

As the old year starts to wane the new begins, it's now Samhain.
When the time for Imbolc shows watch for flowers through the snows.

When the wheel begins to turn soon the Beltane fires will burn.
As the wheel turns to Lamas night power is brought to magick rite.

Four times the Minor Sabbats fall use the Sun to mark them all.
When the wheel has turned to Yule light the log the Horned One rules.

In the spring, when night equals day time for Ostara to come our way.
When the Sun has reached it's height time for Oak and Holly to fight.

Harvesting comes to one and all when the Autumn Equinox does fall.
Heed the flower, bush, and tree by the Lady blessed you'll be.

Where the rippling waters go cast a stone, the truth you'll know.
When you have and hold a need, harken not to others greed.

With a fool no season spend or be counted as his friend.
Merry Meet and Merry Part bright the cheeks and warm the heart.

Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good.
When misfortune is enow wear the star upon your brow.

Be true in love this you must do unless your love is false to you.

These Eight words the Rede fulfill:
"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"

Written by Adriana Porter and was published by Lady Gwen Thompson (Adriana Porter's Granddaughter) in The Green Egg magazine in 1975


The Wiccan Rede
Short Version, Most Commonly Used
These Eight words the Rede fulfill:
"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"


This short phrase has a long and rich history. Gerald Gardner who started the first official Tradition of Wicca called Gardnerian Wicca. Prior to Gerald Gardner's third book The Meaning of Witchcraft, published in 1959, Gardner did not discuss ethics. In "The Meaning of Witchcraft" Gardner says, "(Witches) are inclined to the morality of the legendary Good King Pausol, 'Do what you like so long as you harm no one' But they believe a certain law to be important, "You must not use magic for anything which will cause harm to anyone, and if, to prevent a greater wrong being done, you must discommode someone, you must do it only in a way which will abate the harm."

The Good King Pausol was a character in the book called "The Adventures of King Pausole" published in 1901 by Pierre Louÿs. More specifically the line that Gardner was referring to out of the book, "The Adventures of King Pausole" was, "Do no wrong to thy neighbor. Observing this, do as thou pleasest." Some believe that Gardner was influenced by the older Law of Thelema created by Aleister Crowley, however, this has been up for debate for a long time now.

Now enter in Doreen Valiente. The short form wiccan rede was first publically mentioned in a speech by Doreen Valiente on October 3, 1964 at what may have been the first witches' dinner organized in modern history. The event was sponsored by Pentagram, a quarterly newsletter and "witchcraft review" started and published by Gerard Noel in 1964. Doreene Valiente's Wiccan Rede quote was also published in volume one (1964) of the Pentagram, the UK newsletter that hosted the event and as will be discussed later was subsequently published beween circa 1965 and 1966 in the United States in The Waxing Moon newsletter. In 1965 the Rede was again quoted without references in Justine Glass' book Witchcraft, The Sixth Sense.

Some believe that Gardner wrote the eight word Wiccan Rede. Others believe that Doreene Valiente, who edited a lot of Gardner's work, wrote it using his work. To me, personally, it doesn't matter who wrote it. To some it's really important and makes for some heated debates.

As I mentioned above the word Rede means counsel or advice. Simply put you can lead a horse to water but you can make the horse drink the water. Just because counsel or advice is given doesn't mean it's going to be taken and used. Notice that in the quote above from Gardner's book "The Meaning of Witchcraft" he says they (witches) are INCLINED to the morality, he doesn't say that they are BOUND.

Gerald Gardner had 161 Laws called the Old Laws or The Ardane for all those who were Gardnerian Wiccans. Since that one tradition of Wicca was started many others have followed, some taking with them some of the laws others leaving the laws behind others taking the laws and adding to them, etc. Today, most Wiccans do not follow all 161 of these Laws. Wicca has evolved. Much like Christianity has evolved. Christianity certainly is not the same today as it was when it first began. The Wiccan Rede is not a Law and was never a Law. It is however, wise advice and good counsel for when you practice magick.

To me it seems that the Wiccan Rede has become dogmatic within the Wiccan community. In fact many who are not well informed often believe that all Witches, Pagans as well as Wiccans must abide by The Wiccan Rede or else they are considered a part of the "Dark Arts" or considered to practice "Black" Witchcraft. I don't believe in this whole "White" and "Black" Witchcraft BS. Magick is neither "black" or "white." Within all of Nature there is both good and evil, beauty and cruelty, black, white, and even shades of grey. So it is within Human Nature and the practice of Witchcraft. One cannot go through life without harming something else. And sometimes justice needs to be served on those who harm others.

I do not speak for all Pagans, Witches, or Wiccans. I can merely speak for myself. If there is someone who is out to harm my loved ones in any way, shape, or form, and the usual methods of help are not successful for me and my loved ones I will turn to Magick. I will use Magick as a way to protect me and my loved ones from harm. If need be, I will use Magick to bring about justice when all earthly methods of justice have not prevailed. In short one's own moral compass decides what is right and wrong. That's why "The Wiccan Rede" was given as advice not holy law, when practicing Magick, because it's not something that you go into lightly. At the same time, one can not be a doormat for certain people in this world who would take advantage of you in a heartbeat. I've looked at "The Book of Satan" by Anton Szandor LeVay for some very wise advice on this subject...

1. “Love one another” it has been said is the supreme law, but what power made it so? Upon what rational authority does the gospel of love rest? Why should I not hate mine enemies -- if I “love” them does that not place me at their mercy?
2. Is it natural for enemies to do good unto each other -- and WHAT IS GOOD?
3. Can the torn and bloody victom “love” the blood splashed jaws that rend him limb from limb?
4. Are we not all predatory animals by instinct? If humans ceased wholly from preying upon each other, could they continue to exist?
5. Is not “lust and carnal desire” a more truthful term to describe “love” when applied to the continuance of the race? Is not the “love” of the fawning scriptures simply a euphemism for sexual activity, or was the “great teacher” a glorifier or eunuchs?
6. Love your enemies and do good to them that hate and use you -- is this not the despicable philosophy of the spaniel that rolls upon its back when kicked?
7. Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!
8. He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog!
9. Give blow for blow, scorn for scorn, doom for doom -- with compound interest liberally added thereunto! Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, aye four-fold, a hundred-fold! Make yourself a Terror to your adversary, and when he goeth his way, he will posses much additional wisdom to ruminate over. Thus shall you make yourself respected in all the walks of life, and your spirit -- your immortal spirit -- shall live, not in an intangible paradise, but in the brains and sinews of those whose respect you have gained.

Just because I'm a Christian Pagan Witch doesn't mean I'm one of those fluffy "love, light, and harmony" type Witches.

I believe what Jesus taught and what Anton LaVey taught concerning love and enemies. The key factor is the specifics of any given situation. What Jesus teaches is not beneficial to any human being in every single situation. What LaVey teaches is not beneficial to any human being in every single situation. One cannot be like Jesus teaches and allow everyone treat you as a doormat all the time. At the same time one cannot be like LaVey teaches and allow anger and bitterness to take over ones heart and soul. One must gain the wisdom to determine which philosophy would be the most beneficial to oneself in that particular situation.

I beg to differ. One can't lump all Pagans as being very Earthy. There are far too many different religions under the umbrella of Paganism with so very many different beliefs and practices to make such a blanket statement. However, one can state that one specific Pagan religion such as Wicca is definately an Earth based religion. Just looking at the Esbats (full moon rituals) and the 8 Sabbats (which are all devoted to specific occurrances within Nature) that are celebrated, one can see that this specific Pagan religion, called Wicca, is indeed very Earth based and Nature oriented. In 1974 The Council of American Witches composed what is called The 13 Principles of the Wiccan Belief. The are as follows...

Principles of Wiccan Belief
as adopted by the Council of American Witches, April 1974

Introduction: In seeking to be inclusive, we do not wish to open ourselves to the destruction of our group by those on self-serving power trips, or to philosophies and practices contradictory to those principles. In seeking to exclude those whose ways are contradictory to ours, we do not want to deny participation with us to any who are sincerely interested in our knowledge and beliefs, regardless of race, color, sex, age, national or cultural origins, or sexual preference

1. We practice rites to attune ourselves with the natural rhythm of life forces marked by the phases of the moon and the Seasonal Quarters and Cross-Quarters.

2. We recognize that our intelligence gives us a unique responsibility towards our environment. We seek to live in harmony with nature, in ecological balance offering fulfillment to life and consciousness within an evolutionary concept.

3. We acknowledge a depth of power far greater than that apparent to the average person. Because it is far greater than ordinary it is sometimes called "supernatural," but we see it as lying within that which is naturally potential to all.

4. We conceive of the Creative Power in the universe as manifest through polarity - as masculine and feminine - and that same Creative power lies in all people, and functions through the interaction of masculine and feminine. We value neither above the other, knowing each to be supportive to the other. We value sex as pleasure, as the symbol and embodiment of life, and as one of the sources of energies used in magical practice and religious worship.

5. We recognize both outer worlds and inner, or psychological, worlds known sometimes as the Spiritual World, the Collective Unconscious, Inner Planes, etc. - and we see in the interaction of these two dimensions the basis for paranormal phenomena and magickal exercises. We neglect neither dimension for the other, seeing both as necessary for our fulfillment.

6. We do not recognize any authoritarian hierarchy, but do honor those who teach, respect those who share their greater knowledge and wisdom, and acknowledge those who courageously give of themselves in leadership.

7. We see religion, magic, and wisdom in living as being united in the way one views the world and live within it - a world view and philosophy of life which we identify as "Witchcraft - the Wiccan Way."

8. Calling oneself "Witch" does not make one a Witch - but neither does heredity itself, nor the collecting of titles, degrees and initiations. A Witch seeks to control the forces within themselves that make life possible in order to live wisely and well without harm to others and in harmony with Nature.

9. We believe in the affirmation and fulfillment of life in a continuation of evolution and development of consciousness giving meaning to the Universe we know and our personal role within it.

10. Our only animosity towards Christianity, or towards any other religion or philosophy of life, is to the extent that its institutions have claimed to be "the only way" and have sought to deny freedom to others and to suppress other ways of religious practice and belief.

11. As American Witches, we are not threatened by debates on the history of the Craft, the origins of various terms, the legitimacy of various aspects of different traditions. We are concerned with our present and our future.

12. We do not accept the concept of absolute evil, nor do we worship any entity known as "Satan" or "the Devil," as defined by the Christian tradition. We do not seek power through the suffering of others, nor accept that personal benefit can be derived only by denial to another.

13. We believe that we should seek within Nature that which is contributory to our health and well-being.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom Lady Valkyrie

Thank you for posting this, to try exsplain the difference between Paganiam and Wiccan beliefs.
I didn't go to my docs and post it last night but thank you so much for doing it for me.
Blessings

GeminiGoddess

Q. Whats the difference between Paganism, Wicca and Witchcraft?
From Patti Wigington,
Your Guide to Paganism / Wicca.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
A.
Wicca is a tradition of Witchcraft that was brought to the public by Gerald Gardner in the 1950s. There is a great deal of debate among the Pagan community about whether or not Wicca is truly the same form of Witchcraft that the ancients practiced. Regardless, many people use the terms Wicca and Witchcraft interchangeably. Paganism is an umbrella term used to apply to a number of different earth-based faiths. Wicca falls under that heading, although not all Pagans are Wiccan.



The term “pagan” (derived from the Latin paganus, which translates roughly to “hick from the sticks”) was originally used to describe people who lived in rural areas. As time progressed and Christianity spread, those same country folk were often the last holdouts clinging to their old religions. Thus, “pagan” came to mean people who didn’t worship the god of Abraham.

Added this from About.com thought it was interesting,
How many people do have different oppions.

Thank you for sharing your sacred knowledge GeminiGoddess and LadyValkyrie. It was very enlightening.

I'd like to know why majick at all?

After all my studies in this area it seems certain to me that one can accomplish just as much or more with simple divination and pure psionics as with any number of complex rituals. Your thoughts?

Oops. Meant that to be an edit, not a quote. My bad. X)