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| Topic: Where do nonbelievers go in times of crisis? | |
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I don't have time right now to read your whole response. I got as far as the following and had to stop to comment. And if you're not fearful of death, then why do you eat, why do you take care of yourself, why do you work, why are you on here making human connections? Are you suggesting that the only thing that drives you do live and interact with others is a fear of death???? That’s the most absurd thing I ever heard! I’ll have to come back later to see what else you wrote, but this comment already leaves me thinking that you have a really warped outlook on life if your only reason to live is because you fear death? That's just too weird.  No, abra, I'm not suggesting that fear drives you to live & interact with others. I'm saying it's a human conidition just like fear. Get the point now? Yes it would be absurd to think that. Like eating; we eat to live not feel good or cause we're hungry...that one is for you creativesoul and thanks for you input. abra, it would be benefical to all if we took what I said and not turn it into a play on words. I don't think my explanation is that far off the mark for you to assume the only reason to live is because we fear death. Give me a break. totally redundant argument for the existence of a creator. On the contrary this kind of argument only begs the question of where did God come from! All you’re really saying here is that by your logic God must have a mother, and so on. Redundant only to one who can't view script the way it is written. No, GOD did not have a mother. I said it plainly & I'll say it again, GOD was the begining, the source of all. To me, walking out in front of a Mack Truck represent the potential for pain, and lots of it, plus the possibility of ending up as grossly disfigured living paraplegic instead of dying. I can see how you might view that becaue you think you're indestructable. Remember you're an island & fear nothing, not even death. You man you. You seem to be taking the position that if you don’t fear something then you must highly desire it. You take the position entirely wrong. sorry. This is an extremely weak argument. Also, this would imply that animals also fear death. I don’t think that having an instinct to cling to life is the same thing as fearing death. By your assessment then animals have the same awareness of death as humans do. Because they exhibit the same instintual behaviors as humans do. They eat, interact with each other, and do what they can to survive and avoid demise. That doesn’t automatically equate to fearing death. well that's where you are wrong. In near death instances, the body compensates itself to survive. IT doesn't always work but it can be powerful. Animals don't interact as humans. Humans have a spirit or at least some do. Your argument is weaker in it's self. You're only basing it on your opinion & now you've heard mine. All you are saying here that people aren’t any differnet from animals and that animals aren’t any different from people? Nope. wrong again. You're saying that. I said animals have no spirit. Actually I would agree with that, but I'm just asking. But when I factor in the spirit concept, you will disagree because you think you have the power over death & fear. ha! k Wrong! If God didn’t do what I asked when I asked then he didn’t answer my prayer. If he did something else in a different time then he did something else at a different time. That’s not what I had prayed for and thus he didn’t answer my prayer. You religious people always want to have your cake and eat it too! Either God answers your prayers or he does something differnet. Period. Who are you that GOD should beckon your every call. Do you have control of the universe? I don't really think you really know if GOD answered your prayer. Sorry if you didn't get your way anyway, that's life bud. abra, I'm sorry if you can't understand why & what GOD does. I don't either most of the time but HE is GOD & my ways or not like HIS ways. How about naming some of your so-called cases where people have prayed for rain & didn't recieve it? I'm giving you one that did & he recieved. I’m coming back to what you originally said just to completely blow you out of the water and show precisely how truly absurd your rationale is here! If you are claiming that a fear of death is the only motivation to take care of yourself, work (be productive) and make human connections, then,… What will be your motivation to exist in an eternal heaven where there is no death???? What will motivate you to be productive there and to make spiritual connections???? If your claim is that death is the motivation for life, than what is the motivation to live in an eternal afterlife? Surely death can’t be the motivation there! Do you see how absurd your claims are? Especially coming from someone who supposedly believes in an eternal afterlife! If you claim that a fear of death is the only motivation for life, then what will be your motivation to live in an eternal afterlife where you no longer have a fear of death? All you are saying here is that there will be no motivation for an eternal afterlife. In fact, all you are really claiming here is that death is the only thing that gives life meaning!!!! This is what you are saying from a purely phiolosophical point of view I don't think you blew me out of the water by rearranging what I said. I did not say 'the only motivation to living is the fear of death'. You, being self righteous, has said that. I was saying the fear of death is a human reaction. that's all, plain & simple. ABRA, I'm sorry you misunderstood every word I said. I was just looking to see where you turn in a time of crisis. But I see, a selfcentered person has no need for a GOD. You are the GOD who can fear no death. But I say & quote Luke 12:5 "Fear HIM who, has power to cast into hell..."  |
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Thank you for your respect, Voileazur. and let me clarify my intentions. I was looking to see where non believers go when time of crisis hits. I wasn't looking to preach but I will defend my beliefs as you would also. I am in no way capable of debates nor am I looking for one. I just want other view points. Yes, I may have strayed in optimizing my views and please forgive me for so doing. Thanks for your reply.
T mie
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But I say & quote Luke 12:5 "Fear HIM who, has power to cast into hell..." You seem to be driven by fear. I don’t base my life on fear. Sorry if that’s beyond your comprehension. Better luck with your next poster.  |
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Thanks Britty, you gave me really potential insight here.
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Sorry you think the way you think, Abra but I feel the poster is going quite well. I anticipated opposing views. It would be ridiculous not to. Thanks for your input; it was quite challenging. You're good.
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Sat 01/12/08 02:50 PM
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Fear and Love... Old and New... each comes from that which is nurtured...
Know that what is nurtured most will produce that which has been nurtured most.  What good comes from fear? |
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You are welcome Tommy,
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As usual when this trick question is proffered, one only needs to 'wait for it'. The proseltyzing, that is. That "the correct answer is 'GOD'-- BZZZZT! Unbelievers, everything you know is wrong."
-Kerry O. |
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Sorry KerryO but Either I'm wrong or you're wrong, if that's your point of view. I don't think it's as black & white as you make it sound and I was attempting to learn more not debate. Thanks for your response.
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'tomie' wrote:
I just want other view points. Yes, I may have strayed in optimizing my views and please forgive me for so doing. Thanks for your reply. T mie Given your intention '... just want other viewpoints...', I encourage you to stick to that. Welcome the viewpoint, and thank the people for their trust and contribution. That's it. That's how one builds the necessary trust to incite others to answer one's question 'in good faith' (no handling required)!!! Yes, I may have strayed in optimizing my views and please forgive me for so doing ... ... but I will defend my beliefs as you would also. With all due respect, this is exactly where the trouble starts. You call it "... straying in optimizing my views...", I call it 'preaching through the backdoor', and yet others will call it 'proselitizing' !!! All of it is done under false pretense, and without permission. People react to the breach of trust, and you perceive as an attack of your beliefs. But you are the one whom "... strayed in optimizing my views...", when people thought you were simply asking them for their viewpoint. No "... strayed in optimizing my views...", which you already recognize, and thank you for your apology, no perceived attacks by you, and no need to defend any beliefs!!! I don't suggest you have done this consciously, since I trust you when you say that your sole intent is "... just want other viewpoints...'. I wasn't looking to preach ... I also trust your word here. And since you already recognize the close relationship between "... strayed in optimizing my views...", "preaching through the backdoor", and "veiled proselitizing", I trust you will keep it in mind in future posts, and refrain from "... straying in optimizing my views...". Thank you for allowing this important clarification in posting practices. There is a truly great community of posters here, from a wide panorama of faith and beliefs. Exchanges can be rich and nurturing, as long as posters refrains from turning the discussions into pre-emptive moralizing sermons. Respectfully. |
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Edited by
bigdaug
on
Sat 01/12/08 06:40 PM
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I don't have time right now to read your whole response. I got as far as the following and had to stop to comment. And if you're not fearful of death, then why do you eat, why do you take care of yourself, why do you work, why are you on here making human connections? Are you suggesting that the only thing that drives you do live and interact with others is a fear of death???? That’s the most absurd thing I ever heard! I’ll have to come back later to see what else you wrote, but this comment already leaves me thinking that you have a really warped outlook on life if your only reason to live is because you fear death? That's just too weird. No, abra, I'm not suggesting that fear drives you to live & interact with others. I'm saying it's a human conidition just like fear. Get the point now? Yes it would be absurd to think that. Like eating; we eat to live not feel good or cause we're hungry...that one is for you creativesoul and thanks for you input. abra, it would be benefical to all if we took what I said and not turn it into a play on words. I don't think my explanation is that far off the mark for you to assume the only reason to live is because we fear death. Give me a break. totally redundant argument for the existence of a creator. On the contrary this kind of argument only begs the question of where did God come from! All you’re really saying here is that by your logic God must have a mother, and so on. Redundant only to one who can't view script the way it is written. No, GOD did not have a mother. I said it plainly & I'll say it again, GOD was the begining, the source of all. To me, walking out in front of a Mack Truck represent the potential for pain, and lots of it, plus the possibility of ending up as grossly disfigured living paraplegic instead of dying. I can see how you might view that becaue you think you're indestructable. Remember you're an island & fear nothing, not even death. You man you. You seem to be taking the position that if you don’t fear something then you must highly desire it. You take the position entirely wrong. sorry. This is an extremely weak argument. Also, this would imply that animals also fear death. I don’t think that having an instinct to cling to life is the same thing as fearing death. By your assessment then animals have the same awareness of death as humans do. Because they exhibit the same instintual behaviors as humans do. They eat, interact with each other, and do what they can to survive and avoid demise. That doesn’t automatically equate to fearing death. well that's where you are wrong. In near death instances, the body compensates itself to survive. IT doesn't always work but it can be powerful. Animals don't interact as humans. Humans have a spirit or at least some do. Your argument is weaker in it's self. You're only basing it on your opinion & now you've heard mine. All you are saying here that people aren’t any differnet from animals and that animals aren’t any different from people? Nope. wrong again. You're saying that. I said animals have no spirit. Actually I would agree with that, but I'm just asking. But when I factor in the spirit concept, you will disagree because you think you have the power over death & fear. ha! k Wrong! If God didn’t do what I asked when I asked then he didn’t answer my prayer. If he did something else in a different time then he did something else at a different time. That’s not what I had prayed for and thus he didn’t answer my prayer. You religious people always want to have your cake and eat it too! Either God answers your prayers or he does something differnet. Period. Who are you that GOD should beckon your every call. Do you have control of the universe? I don't really think you really know if GOD answered your prayer. Sorry if you didn't get your way anyway, that's life bud. abra, I'm sorry if you can't understand why & what GOD does. I don't either most of the time but HE is GOD & my ways or not like HIS ways. How about naming some of your so-called cases where people have prayed for rain & didn't recieve it? I'm giving you one that did & he recieved. I’m coming back to what you originally said just to completely blow you out of the water and show precisely how truly absurd your rationale is here! If you are claiming that a fear of death is the only motivation to take care of yourself, work (be productive) and make human connections, then,… What will be your motivation to exist in an eternal heaven where there is no death???? What will motivate you to be productive there and to make spiritual connections???? If your claim is that death is the motivation for life, than what is the motivation to live in an eternal afterlife? Surely death can’t be the motivation there! Do you see how absurd your claims are? Especially coming from someone who supposedly believes in an eternal afterlife! If you claim that a fear of death is the only motivation for life, then what will be your motivation to live in an eternal afterlife where you no longer have a fear of death? All you are saying here is that there will be no motivation for an eternal afterlife. In fact, all you are really claiming here is that death is the only thing that gives life meaning!!!! This is what you are saying from a purely phiolosophical point of view I don't think you blew me out of the water by rearranging what I said. I did not say 'the only motivation to living is the fear of death'. You, being self righteous, has said that. I was saying the fear of death is a human reaction. that's all, plain & simple. ABRA, I'm sorry you misunderstood every word I said. I was just looking to see where you turn in a time of crisis. But I see, a selfcentered person has no need for a GOD. You are the GOD who can fear no death. But I say & quote Luke 12:5 "Fear HIM who, has power to cast into hell..." so much for your open mind. "No, abra, I'm not suggesting that fear drives you to live & interact with others." sounds like fear makes you beleive in something that doesn't exist. |
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Sorry KerryO but Either I'm wrong or you're wrong, if that's your point of view. I don't think it's as black & white as you make it sound and I was attempting to learn more not debate. Thanks for your response. Well, let's see-- your response begins with 'sorry' and ends with a very uncivil emoticon given the context, so I'd think it's pretty safe to infer who you think is "wrong". Yet, you say *I'm* framing the thread in black and white? Contradiction abounds. See, that's why, even though I've been on the brink twice, I'm not inclined to share my experience. Given my agnosticism, I know all too well it will be dismissed because there's no other possible outcome in the face of such intransigence. Unlike quadratic equations, there are no other roots possible in the framework of such binary thought. So what's the point in even trying? -Kerry O. |
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'tomie' ?!?!?! |
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I myself have turned to others who have been there before, or are currently expirencing what I am going through. Friendship that you have, or develop while in the midst of a crisis are great supporters.
I have been very fortunate and not needed to reach out to others much, but when I have, these people, my friends, family and perfect strangers have always been my inspiration to continue on. I don't think you have to believe in any higher power to make it though anything. You must only have faith in yourself. |
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I myself have turned to others who have been there before, or are currently expirencing what I am going through. Friendship that you have, or develop while in the midst of a crisis are great supporters. I have been very fortunate and not needed to reach out to others much, but when I have, these people, my friends, family and perfect strangers have always been my inspiration to continue on. I don't think you have to believe in any higher power to make it though anything. You must only have faith in yourself. 10/4 'andreajayne'. Very clear message. Trusting the wisdom of others 'whom have been there' so to speak, and allowing their contribution, . TKS. |
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I turn to family and friends before I turn to
God.Thats why He gave us social skills.God is a last resort cause he is kind of busy holding the fundies hands thru life 's bumps. |
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God is a last resort cause he is kind of busy holding the fundies hands thru life 's bumps.  Jackie’s such a naughty naughty gurl.  ~~~ Pesky little fundies reaching out to God Asking for a helping hand to hold them as they plod They bother him on weekdays They bother him at night They ruin all his Sabbaths with complaints about their plight They moan and groan beneath his throne wallowing in fear Praying that he’ll have the grace to make their troubles disappear They preach his word relentlessly as they constantly complain Claiming that to know him will make a person sane But their deeds expose their doubts as they display their lack of guts Soon the Lord will tire and let them fall upon their butts ~~~ |
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Abra.
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I do ask for strength to help me through difficult situations. But in a lot of ways prayer is just a tool for me to focus, clarify and prioritize... and by prioritize I mean gain perspective on whatever challenge is occurring. Maybe it can have some positive aspects or at least ambiguious ones?
"Prayer" is another form of meditation for me. I don't truly expect assistance from an external source, although sometiems that might be nice! Praying is primarily a way for me to remain calm and access my own inner strength and resources. And I talk over how to best deal with the situation and what actions (if any) to take with my friends and family. |
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That was a very civil response, anoasis and I thank you so much for it.
T mie
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