I will ... tomorrow...

Nite Nite Red

Fruit does not have a thought process; most humans do.

Wench...



I wonder what the rest of yours is on that statement...

Well. Comparing fruit to people or trying to justify the statement is bugging me. I realize the concept is supposed to be a child will not grow far from how they are raised and what they are shown/taught. This is not a constant. Due to free will, ability to think and choose what is right for oneself shoots that whole theory to little more than um, shall I say, compost?

Now a fruit on the other hand, can it move to a new tree? Can it experience anything other than being a fruit and growing based on how much sunlight, water, i.e. fruit food it has access to?

The reason I said most people is because there are people with limited mental capabilities and they have less say in their lives.

Wench:

I copied and pasted your post, and will interrupt where necessary to comment...



Yes... fruit and people are not equal agents people do have choice within parameters, fruit has no thought process.



I have also taken this parable to be an indication of the relationship between what one feels and what one says... Tree and fruit being parallels with heart and spoken words?




Maybe so... maybe not... Free will is something I do not believe in.

Cause and effect, I believe in. I will explain why.

How does 'free will' exclude itself from the law of cause and effect?

One must know better to choose better. One also must have some type of experience which introduces better in order to be able to choose better.

One has free will when one wants what one wants to want?

This is indeed problematic... because it's not clear how wanting what one wants to want (i.e. making an all things considered judgement or identification with a desired want) is even possible considering that one may have already internalized a concept as truth that will not allow a better choice to be entertained, let alone chosen.

How am I free to want what I want to want if what I want to want is governed by some feature of my psychology that I don't necessarily want to have, but I do not understand that I do not want to have this feature.

One can only choose that which is available. Choice is determined by internalizations.





Of course not... unless some outside cause moves it within reach of a different experience...




I truly wonder exactly how much 'say' any of us really have. We all make choices based on our own acceptances, and live within those parameters. Knowledge is key. However, sometimes one's personal internalizations will indeed stop information from being processed. We see this all the time. In all of us.

"The one who sows the good seeds is the Son of Man, and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are "the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age and the reapers are angels. "Therefore just as the tares are gathered and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in the that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "Then the Righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

feral:

Could you explain to me how this addresses the OP, or the direction in which this conversation was going?

I am failing to see a parallel to the topic at hand.

Topic: A tree and it's fruit.....

All trees start from seeds.....so there ya have it.

I gotcha...

So we have a 'race' between the Son of Man and the devil to see who can plant the most trees?

that was a good one cs.

And no.......understanding the parable also makes a big difference. This is where I find it so hard......because why do people always bash what they do not understand.

I am curious what your understanding of the parable is feral...

I have heard it used a few ways...

Tree = one's heart fruit = one's spoken word


Tree = parent fruit = child


I have never seen it used that tree = God and fruit = man, other than when I thought it...

What is your take?

Parable of the Tares Matthew 13: 36-43

"The one who sows the good seeds is the Son of Man, and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are "the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age and the reapers are angels. "Therefore just as the tares are gathered and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in the that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "Then the Righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.


Explanation: Good seed = Jesus
Field = World
Good seeds = People who believe in Jesus and the the kingdom
Tares = are unwelcome (weed) or objectional element = sons of satan evil ones
Harvest = end of days.

So just as the unwelcome evil are burned at the end of time and Jesus will send his angels and gather is seeds . Jesus will take out all stumbling blocks (evil) and cast them to the pits of hell. And the righteous will shine as the son with God. And anyone who doesn’t listen…….let him hear this.

I meant the parable described in the OP feral...


But concerning your analysis I have a question...




Good seed = Jesus = People who believe in Jesus and the the kingdom = good seeds

That is saying that Jesus = believers

I think that Jesus is the sower... right?

Anyway... the OP... how do you read it?

Yes Jesus who sowed good seeds = the sons of the kingdom

Ok let's do this another way.......how it applies to me.

Debbie = try to be a good seed.....who then takes what the Lord teaches me and plants seeds for others to learn. But sometimes tares (evil) gets in the way.....So its a constant to make sure that the planting of the seeds will at least let those searching grow in the sower to become beautiful trees, by example in living my life each day as I know Jesus would want me to. Which is the following......helping the poor, comforting those that mourn, helping the hungry, being prosecuted, and spoken to with evil intent, taking insults all in the name of my Father God, and his Son. And saying to myself it's ok for my reward will be great.

Would you be ok if your reward were this life, and what you have made it?

Well if I didn't know any better ....I would say yes.....I do believe that what you make of life here and now is important. My motto in life is "Do something, don't merely exist.....

That is good feral...

well ty creative......I think that people are so very complex and that people tend to judge without knowing all sides of someone else. And to me that is very sad indeed....I am a Christian and I am proud of that fact....But that is not at all the everything that defines me as a human being.

" You can count the seeds in an apple, but you cannot count the apples in the seed."