Here goes, my inner geek...

I LOVE physics, Science and STEM in general, when I learn something new, I need to link it to a pragmatic usefulness for real life application.

Over the last two decades, Hubble era telecopy has yielded a startling revelation in astrophysics, that 95% of the observable universe is speeding away from us faster than the speed of light.

According to Einstein, this is NOT possible, matter cannot exceed light speed, so physicist have concluded that space itself can "stretch" in excess of light speed without "jostling" the matter around it.

How is this useful in a pragmatic sense?...This proves that space can be expanded and contracted faster than light, which now opens the door to real faster than light space travel.

Think, Star Trek, Warp drive....Roddenberry may have been right!

Last, if you're like me and thinking "the amount of energy required will make it impossible" - Consider that X-rays usually only occur naturally through Black Holes, Quasars or Supernovae, and yet, we have X ray machines sitting in millions of Doctors offices all over the world....


- Beam me up, Scotty!

I've heard recently that a very few scientists have concluded that the speed of light is not constant, the universe is not expanding as evident by some closer galaxies are moving together predicting that Andromeda & Milky Way galaxies will collide.
I concluded that by reading the light spectrum shifting to red indicating expansion, only applies to the time. example: reading galaxies 1 billion light years away is what happened a billion years ago. if the universe started contracting 900 million years ago then from earth you wouldn't see the light spectrum shift to the blue for another 100million yrs.

Mike,
I've had the same idea, that, in fact, the inner universe has begun to retract more quickly, another idea I had is that maybe light itself has a shelf life that causes the red shifting further back in time/distance as that light decays...

For all intents and purposes, I'm sticking with consensus on this one, just for now, the notion that space can be manipulated is insanely entertaining.

BTW, thanks for replying, very interesting response.

Hi guys


Try to remember everything humans know is restricted by observational limitations.
What we think we know, we know from 'our view' of the Universe.

The Speed of Light is not and never has been the speed limit of the Universe.
There are many things which move faster than c.
~ thought
~ energy
~ gravity
to name a few...

A photon is both energy and mass.
It switches accordinmg to its environment (and other factors)
While it is energy, in a complete vacuum it moves at the speed of light.
While it has mass, it does not.

The speed of light (c) is the limit of speed for mass. Energy can exceed that speed limit as long as there is no mass present.
Higgs Theory postulates the Higgs Field limits the speed of mass. Without the Higgs field, everything would fly apart at the speed of light.

The Universe is not a complete vacuum. There are pockets of gas and dust, planets, moons and stars. There are gravitational waves of different degrees as well. Gravity affects mass, therefore when a photon is mass it is affected by gravitational waves.

A few years ago I looked up Cosmic Anisotropy VS Homogeneity and Isotropy
Try pasting that into Google Scholar and reading the data available.
While RedShift is accurate for our limited observations the conditions of the Universe make RedShift unreliable due to cosmic 'speed traps' which change the photon from energy to mass then back again. There is also a condition called Gravitational Lensing which distorts our view of light as a distance indicator.

The so-called Big Bang was not the beginning of the Universe.
The beginning was the change of static state to a dynamic state.
The Big Bang was merely the point at which the dynamic state reached a temperature in which mass converted to energy and produced light. The birth of the photon in energy form.

Our observation of the Universe is limited to our view from within the explosion of matter and energy resulting from the change of static to dynamic states.
Imagine an explosion.
We are within that explosion looking at it from a limited view. We don't see the entire explosion, only a small portion of it from a specific point within it. To determine the speed and direction of the explosion we would need to observe it from...
~ multiple points within it
~ a view from outside of it
As it is, we can only observe it from one small point in time and space.

Now that we have begun exploring quantum, many physical laws are changed at that scale. Quantum means Very Small. Physics change at the quantum level. New laws take affect. Spooky theory exceeds the speed of light. Aka: Quantum Coupling postulates two particles at quantum share states until one is acted upon (observed). This means, states change faster than the speed of light over a distance.

Time is always relative to the observer. Duration is the change in the Universe from one static state to the next static state. At our scale, we are unable to differentiate that change and we 'see' time as a constant flow.
Our smallest observation is Planck. At Planck, duration still occurs faster than we can observe. At any point within the change of static states there are periods of duration. Duration is the fastest thing in the Universe and it is far beyond our ability to quantify.

From a MegaScale perspective, time again works very differently than our ability to observe. We postulate time moves slower at megascales but since we cannot observe it directly, we cannot know. We are limited to our view of the Universe at our scale on our time limits.
We see a photon moving at 186,000mps but at Planck or megascales this may not be the case.

For faster than light travel certain things must be overcome, most importantly the effects of the Higgs Field. However, if the Higgs field were nullified, the matter within the nullification field would fly apart. There would need to be something which keeps the matter of the craft and you from flying apart at the speed of light. A way to prevent mass from losing gravity. Call it a Warp Bubble as Star Trek did. However, creating such a Warp Bubble would be much harder than it sounds because all the Fundamental forces of the Universe would need to be pristine within the bubble while outside the bubble the Higgs field is turned off. Then you would need some type of navigation, propulsion and phasing technology so you don't crash into mass along the way.
The knowledge and technology for such a system is far, far beyond our capacity.

All matter is made of energy (think atomic bomb). Mass has a limited speed in this Universe due to the Higgs Field. Energy is not limited by the Higgs Field (as far as we know) so one method of faster than light travel might be to0 convert the mass of the craft, and you, to energy and back to mass again. However, that too is far, far beyond our ability.

As for our observable Universe and the conditions of movement we can detect...

Relatively, we observe movement in the Universe based on our scale of time.
I posted a thread a while back about
The WOW! Signal & Other False Positives
http://mingle2.com/topic/594063

In that thread I touched on the concept of time displacement and Universal movement.
We exist in a dynamic Universe. It is constantly changing because it is moving.
The Hubble Deep Field is a static collection of light from the distant Universe. That light left some of those stars over 13.8 billion years ago.
The light sources we detected, no longer exists.

Proxima Centauri is the closest star to us besides Sol. We see it as it was 4.3 years ago. It is no longer at the same place because the Milky Way is spinning.
We see light from Sol as it was around 8 minutes ago. If Sol suddenly went dark, we wouldn't know it for around 8 minutes.

We see light from sources in the Universe as they were in the past. The closer those sources are to us, the more we can detect their movement over time. It is an observational distortion limited by our own space and time.

To determine the speed of the Universe (and possibly the direction) we would need to observe it from multiple distant points. Until we can place a detector a billion light years away and make measurements we are limited to our own observational prison.

We are currently still within the universe explosion of mass and energy.
At our scale it look like it is moving at different speeds with more distant objects almost static but that is a false observation due to our own observational limitations.

If we use an explosion as our model for the Universe we are again limiting our observations to known conditions. A TNT explosion on Earth expands differently than one in space.
However, If we shrink ourselves so one particle within that explosion were the size of planet Earth and observe, that explosion would look like it moves faster in close proximity to us and almost static at greater and greater distances. This is the effect we see in our observations of the Universe.

Scale and time (duration) affects observation.
The Universe may or may not be moving at different speeds, we can't know because we are limited by our own observational methods.

Metal Ball Studios made an interesting video on the Universe Size.
It starts out at Planck and moves thru to the Universe itself.
I found the video fascinating, especially the first few minutes.
Imagine observing the Universe from quantum. You would have a very different view than at our observational limit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrRPg0pH9xc

"This means, states change faster than the speed of light over a distance."

no, it does not mean that. we cannot say the state was changed unless we had measured the state prior to the change and then again the state after it, and that has never been done. there is a lot of pseudo science in your post. and Thought is not something that moves, in the sense of the meaning of the word "move". so to say it moves faster than light, or than a turtle, is nonsense speak. thought moves faster than light like a violin cries louder than an infant.

You're right, thanx for pointing that out. Since I am not a scientist, its all pseudo science.
My poor word choice directly affected my presentation.


There are many things which occur faster than c.
~ thought
~ energy
~ gravity
to name a few...


states occur faster than the speed of light (over a distance)
Time is a series of static states.
The speed of light can only be measured over a distance.
the change between present and past happens faster than a photon can move in a vacuum.
Since time equals duration and a photon moving happens in duration, time is 'faster' than the speed of light.


A violin does 'cry' louder than an infant. So does a trumpet.

I have a problem with anyone who asserts the speed of light is the speed limit of the Universe.
Not only does this prevent the imaginative thought which leads to new discoveries it assumes humans know everything about the entire Universe.

Hello,

Anyone interested in this group? And has anyone in this group actually studied physics at all? I’m a bit surprised to see someone claim that thought, energy, and gravity are faster that the speed of light. Thought doesn’t travel at all, unless you mean that people think that thoughts move around in their brain, which is true because there are electrical connections being made all the time in there, but that’s not faster than the speed of light. As for energy traveling faster than light, well light IS energy so that’s like saying light travels faster than itself. And gravity isn’t moving at all. It causes objects to move, at an acceleration rate of 9.8 feet per second, per second. That’s here on earth anyway. Black holes are quite different,,with a gravity so strong that even light ant escape it. It’s guess the idea of speed becomes irrelevant,

I meant meters, not feet. Sometimes I forget what units I’m thinking in. I’m an American living in France so I’m always bouncing back and forth between meters and feet.🤪

Gravity does move at lightspeed, LIGO has confirmed waves coinciding with Black hole and neutron star collisions.

Also, this one will stump ya, electricity does "travel" faster than light, electrons don't move through the wire, they instead displace, electricity passes long lengths of wire instantly, only slowed by resistance.

As for my original post, it's well known in astrophysics, space is spreading faster than light, hence all the buzz over dark energy.

Would you care to provide a source in support of what you stated?

Absolutely, YouTuber/physicist Derik Muller started a maelstrom of social media dissention in science geek circles when he presented it a while back.

One dissenter did an elaborate experiment to disprove it, only to actually prove that a small amount of the current does actually move that fast, as Derek stated - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vrhk5OjBP8

At around 9:00 and then 14:00 I found most informative.


Then, after all the ruckus, Derek posts a response, the whole thing's pretty funny.

Imagine a mile long table, turn on a light and push the table at the exact same time, the table would be "faster" than the light at the other end.

One of the four nuclear forces, "electromagnetic force" pushes electrons rather than the commonly perceived "flow" in electricity, at least partially.

Veritasium response -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_X2cMHNe0

You may recall a few years back, someone claimed to be able to build a sail car that could travel upwind using the energy of that wind, a physics professor bet $10,000 that he could not.

That professor is now light $10 grand.

Derek us brilliant, Google "Veritasium" - he has dozens of really interesting video's, he's pretty funny too.

Veritasium video IS TRYING TO SHOW, DOES NOT PROVE that electricity travels at the speed of light; not faster, and it is controversial to say the least.

You obviously didn't watch The first video I linked - it's not Veritasium, this video intended to debunk Veritasium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vrhk5OjBP8

He took your stance but HE put his money where his mouth is

He ran 1 km, 1000 meters of wire, used an oscilloscope to time it in conjunction with the switch and explained his methods in intricate detail.

Watch at around 9:00, where he begrudgingly acknowledges the initial surge is at the same time as the switch, not the full current, but that was Derek's claim to begin with....that "a small amount" of electricity" would reach the end of the circuit at that speed.

Both this video and Veritasium's give physical examples of how, on a much longer circuit, electricity could arrive before light coming from the same destination.

Derek's whole point was to demonstrate that electrical current doesn't actually "flow" the way most of us perceive it does. If it did it would be impossible to arrive at, or faster, than light speed.

Nothing physical can exceed lightspeed, though space can stretch faster and electrons can displace immediately over distances, they are not moving FTL.


Here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY

in Veritasium's original explanation, jump to about 11:40, where he explains how the electrify arrives faster than light without violating light speed.

Another way to look at it, push your kitchen table, the opposite end will arrive to it's stopping point before the light leaving the hand that pushed it. the table definitely hasn't exceeded light speed.

Thought occurs faster than light because one can imagine faster than a photon.
Imagination may not be an established science but since we have the capacity for an imagination, the Universe also has the capacity for it because we are part of the Universe, not separate from it.

Time, the actual function of duration, is immeasurable only because we can't measure it.
We don't possess a device able to measure it because that device would need the capacity to measure faster than time can occur. It would have to exist outside this Universe, outside time itself.
Each moment of time is a freeze frame of the Universe. Duration begins as that freeze frame initiates a change. The problem is, to measure time duration we would need to measure such a minute change at a speed faster than time itself. Before, the freeze frame starts its change to the moment the change occurs but that moment then becomes the next freeze frame because even that minute change also changes the entire Universe as a whole.
This means time is faster than light.

Since the Universe is currently in expansion, each freeze frame change expands it and since that 'rate' of change is faster than light, the Universe expands faster than light.

Gravity is linked to mass which is linked to time.
No matter how much mass is generating a gravitational effect, if mass is there, gravity is there too. The moment mass occurs, gravity also occurs.
How much gravity is directly related to how much mass.
The gravity speed is the same whether it is an elementary particle or a supermassive black hole. Its either there or it isn't.