Which son of David did Jesus descended from?


Was it soloman? (Matthew 1:6)

Or was it Nathan? (Luke3:31)

Who was Josephs father, Mary's husband?
Was it Jacob? (Matthew 1:16)
Or was it Heli? (Luke 3:23)

There's many, many more like this, so can't see how you guys can say "there are no contradictions in the scriptures,texts or Bible"...

IgorFrankensteen

The difference between historical documentation and scripture is that historians are not attempting to live by those documents in a personal day to day manner.
In religion, believers use the scriptures to attempt to live by the intent as written.
The contradictions between scripture and real-life experiences causes conflict between real examples of day to day life and their instructions on how to conduct themselves in life.
The whole reason for the Bible is to have an instruction book on how to live your life to find grace with God and your fellow man.
Any contradiction, by written word or intent, invalidates it.

The sermon attempts to show connection between the scriptures intent and one's experiences in life. To do this, the sermon often changes the intent of the scripture to apply to current society and when that happens contradictions occur.

Since most intelligent people value consistency and accuracy, any contradiction invalidates the source. While there are a larger number of people alive today with higher intelligence than the original target audience, contradictions and the ability to detect them is not limited to intelligence. Most people notice when something doesn't make sense to them. It eats at them that there is something wrong here. Its a common foundation for stress.

There are some people that delude their reason and believe anything, sometimes what they are told, other times what they read and often times what they see is subject to interpretation based on a deluded mindset.

What happens in forum communities is that people use quoted text to justify their mindset. It works for them because they take the intent of the sentences as they interpret them. Someone else interprets those same sentences differently. It doesn't matter if the quoted text is scripture or the 2nd amendment.

Ignorance to the meaning of a word in the context of what is written can also cause one to feel the words contradict. Communication is most effective when everyone is on the same page on the meaning of the words being conveyed. Since many words have more than one meaning, the intent is the validity, not the words.

How does ones recorded behaviour in Scripture contradict Scripture?

How?

Okay, first let me state that I am not trying to offend, just offering my view.
Scripture, in how I understand it, is the passages appearing in the Bible.
Ones behaviour recorded in Scripture makes that behavior scripture because it is used to reinforce or focus on an intent of the scripture. An example is being provided.
within Scripture implies that such an example is part of the scripture.
If the example shown, contradicts the intent of the scripture the scripture is contradictory.
This is why I wrote that your statement was contradiction.
Because what is written in scripture is scripture and if it contradicts that scripture is contradictory.
Now look at the quote and see if you know what I mean?


I don't have any examples of this to relate to you because I am not interested in reading to find them. I'm sure many others can quote contradictory scripture if they have the imperative, I don't.

Where I see the contradiction is the religious mindset verses practical application in reality. The religious mindset is often established thru scripture and sermon. The problem a lot of people have with religion is the tendancy to adopt the "Do what I say, not as I do" code of conduct.
This is a contradiction in the practical application of religion.

This isn't the case. Ones application regarding Scripture has nothing to do with Scripture itself in a contradictory manner.

It isn't a matter of " do what I say , not as I do"..., that has no bearing on Scripture being contradictory.
That is a matter of hypocrisy not contradictory.

Hey Blake, how about the real contradictions I posted? You said there aren't any, and I posted 2, with 100's more...

You are trying to use an example I gave as a foundation for my intent.
I don't study words. Most people don't study the words they see they look at the intent of the sentences those words imply.
Its the same with scripture, law, even love letters.
The contradiction may or may not be in the specific wordfs but in the intent of the sentence.
I'm not attacking anything or anyone but it seems that you are mind-set to defend, no matter what? This is common in all religion forum discussions.
Someone offers up a consideration and it is seen as an attack needing defended. The only time an religious discussion doesn't result in an argument is when someone fully agrees with you? Why is that?

There are examples of Do as I say, Not as I do in the Bible. NO, I'm not going to quote them out for you but I know they exist because I have read them. An eye for an eye, thou shall not kill, the sacrafice of a lamb and so on, just to get you started. Contradictions of intent. Didn't Jesus preach love for your fellow man then attack the merchants in the temple?
Do as I say, not as I do.
Contradictions invalidate for people not blinded by faith.

Melchi (Luke 3:24) and Matthan (Matt. 1:15) were married at different times to the same woman.

This would make Heli (Luke 3:23) and Jacob (Matt. 1:15) half-brothers.
Heli then died without a son , and so his (half-) brother Jacob married Heli's widow , who gave birth to Joseph.

This would make Joseph the "son of Heli" legally and the" son of Jacob" biologically.
Thus , Matthew and Luke are both recording the same genealogy (Joseph's) , but Luke follows the legal lineage while Matthew follows the biological.

Tom I am just trying to clarify what you are trying to convey , that is all .
It is my duty to defend the Scriptures.

If the Scriptures are attacked I most certainly will defend them.

For example you use the word "attack" .
A lot of people do and they often do out of context.

Jesus did not attack the merchants.
That would be taking Scripture out of context.
I will explain why within the hour.

Well, that makes sense but is what you wrote actual scripture or how multiple scriptures are implied. Would anyone encountering this be able to read those scriptures and understand what they imply? Could this be seen as a contradiction by someone less versed in the Bible? If the Bible is meant to be the foundation of a religion sanctioned by God, you would think it would be evident in all interpretations.
Then there is the whole coveting his half-brother's wife. Why didn't he find himself a virgin? I'm sure Jacob didn't just look at Heli's wife one day and say hey lets make a kid cause your husband is dead. Plus Joseph being Heli's son legally but Jacob's son biologically makes Joseph the bastard son of Jacob and Heli's wife.
My point is, unless you are a biblical scholar that studies biblical history the Bible can be seen as contradictory to itself. You may know more of the story but a lot of people don't.

I agree, its common in many discussions (out of context arguments).
I turned away from religion because of the contradictions I saw.
I didn't turn away from God, I reassessed how I understand God.

Religion NEEDs scripture and sermon, rewards and punishments and makes little sense according to the reality in which I exist. It lost its validity with me slowly, over time.
It is that need to defend that invalidates it.
I don't need to defend my belief in God.

Perhaps "smite" would be a 'better' word.
An expression of anger and intolerance towards the actions of the merchants in the temple. Eviction from the temple, scolding of their practices, however you want to word it, He lost His temper with them.

When I was a kid, my friends and I would go to church by ourselves.
One Sunday, we arrived early and got bored. My friend had some dice in his pocket from playing Yahtzee earlier so we were throwing the dice and playing a game to pass time till Sunday School started.
The preacher saw us and kicked us all out of the church and told never to come back. Yet the church sponsored Bingo in the basement on Thursday nights? A contradiction.

I understand what you are saying.
That is why there are Pastors, teachers, elders, deacons, ect... to help aid and teach the Scriptures.

The Scriptures need to be studied earnestly and with the proper humble heart and mindset.
That being said , one can read the Scriptures and get some milk, but if you want to get the meat you have to study earnestly .

It is a lifetime endeavor.

Tom I think you are a very intelligent man with a great mind.
We can discuss anything regardless if one of us disagrees and still like and have respect towards one another. This is my attitude towards all my fellow man.

You are a studious individual. There are things on a scientific level that I may not understand whereas you do and can explain so I and others can understand through your studies and likewise with me and the Scriptures.

Do you know everything about science? Absolutely not.
Do I know everything about the Scriptures?
Absolutely not.

Here is a nugget of Scripture that I love.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
Study to shew thyself approved unto God ,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed ,
rightly dividing the word of truth.

legally and biologically, joesph wouldn't be related to Hell at all,in no way shape or form...Hell died before joesph was born...unless the woman was married and had joesph 9 months after helis death...

every insider knows the story of Job. Now:

1) Any of us can anytime be an experiment rat for suffering as a result of a pesky bet between god and devil.

2) What kind of an omnipotent god is this that he falls into trap of devil immediately and at once agrees to a bet based on suffering of Job - a totally innocent sinless man. Devil can cheat him immediately with 1-2 sentences.

3) god claims that life is very valuable, but is not ashamed to take lives of Job's 10 children and don't remember around 1500 animals just for a pesky bet. Those 10 children are gone, they are not brought back, i.e. irreversible process.

4) Giving suffering to someone - let alone it to an innocent man like Job - is not an exam, test or lesson, it is just a sadistic torture. From an exam I understand that totally with our free will and liberty of decision we are occasionally offered two choices (good and bad), and choose one way and thus show him our deeds and honesty.

5) god claims of the day of judgement when everybody will be judged. Then why are you so restless to test the honesty of Job in this world, as long as Job would anyway be judged on the day of judgement? what's the point and logic?

6) If god was omnipotent and omniscient, he should have known whether Job was believing with deep honesty and wouldn't ever need his pesky bet with the devil. He should have also known the tolerance threshold of Job for all the suffering and after which point Job would start coming to borders of blasphemy.

7) What was then the reason of this bet? To prove what to whom? Did he at the end tell devil "Didn't I tell you? Didn't I tell you? I won, you lost!". 10 innocent children are gone as an instrument of that bet.

8) god is continuously restless about the question mark whether he is loved by every creature. You can't force anybody to love you (which has no association with being a good or bad person). Wait for the day of judgement (whose timing you decide anyway), then judge all of us and punish the ones who were not loving you sincerely, if this is a sin, but otherwise leave us in peace! And moreover god claims to exist on his own without the need for any other existence in this universe, but yet can't stay alone, needs his toys, i.e. us, probably for some bets when he gets bored.

9) All what god can give as answer to Job is nothing else than his famous megalomania and exaggerated praising: "Where were you, when I created the universe?". Who cares whether you create millions of universes or not, as long as you are not ashamed to give tears to the faces of innocent sufferers?

10) Instead of engaging yourself in pesky bets, be a real god and do your responsibility and protect the needy and oppressed ones and people in great difficulty!

that's just one example. From wherever you hold the bible, it gets sticky in your hands.

The purpose of sermons.
Problem is, many sermons do not teach scripture or they teach impressions of scripture.
Many people do not study scripture.
Many people's entire faith is built upon how they interpret what they read in the Bible and the content of the sermons they receive. Sermons that are not accurate to the intent of the scripture. There is no standard sermon.
Attend a Southern Baptist and a Northern Baptist church and pay attention to the sermons then attend a Pentecostal church.

However, In science, no matter which class you attend, an atom is made of the same parts, a proton, a neutron and electrons. You can attend higher studies to find out more but the baseline information is the same for all classes on that subject. Nobody teaches that an atom has a proton and electrons but no neutrons. The information is the same because it is reality based. No interpretation is needed, only understanding of the reality that exists, can be tested, verified. When a scientific theory contradicts, it becomes invalid.

I don't see myself as studious, I just like things to make sense. They need to fit the reality before me. I try to embrace reality. My belief (delusions) caused me more problems than reality in my life. My beliefs caused me to make inaccurate decisions which affected my contentment. My beliefs caused me to act when I shouldn't have and not to act when I should have. Removing my delusions has given me a new perspective. Allows me to take decisive actions when needed and refrain from action when action is not needed. I see less contradictions and more harmony.

Actually that isn't one example of a contradiction whatsoever.

That is an example of someone who apparently didn't understand the story of Job .

Not a contradiction regarding Scripture.