Topic: Euthanasia in case of psychic problems
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Tue 07/17/18 06:39 AM
A friend from childhood had euthanasia in August last year. She was 23. Turned 23 in July and had her injection two weeks later.

She was depressed since many years. Ever since childhood she was always unhappy. She had a mild form of autism so communication with others went more difficult for her.

Her father is a pharmacist, her mother comes from a very well off bourgeoisie family.

She had been planning her euthanasia ever since she was 20 but I never thought she would ever be approved for it since here in Belgium multiple doctors have to agree that there is no other relief than euthanasia for said patient and you are evaluated by psychiatrists,...

She was very intelligent. Had the highest grades at university. She was studying medicine.

She had been admitted to psychiatric wards quite a few times but got discharged every time after a few days or a few weeks.

She was exceptionally attractive physically. But could almost never manage to smile once.

So many questions go through my head still after a year.

I’m shocked that someone barely a year older than me, was given permission to turn the light off forever.
In case of a terminal cancer I could have understand it.
But not in this case.

I wonder if she would eventually have found happiness given more time and more maturity.
Maybe after finding love, maybe after having kids.
I find it very hard to process.

I don’t understand how her parents have not tried to stop her euthanasia.

I don’t understand why experienced doctors have assisted someone so young to put a permanent end to everything.

As a law student it frightens me that the life of a person is not better protected than this.
There are so many laws when it comes to taxes but barely any law to protect the lives of young people.

It still hurts that she passed away this way.

I wonder what random people think about euthanasia in case of mental problems.

Can you yourself find yourself in the decision to euthanasize someone with psychic pain?
I personally can understand euthanasia in case of a terminal physical ilness like metastasized cancer but I have it very difficult to understand euthanasia in case of psychic suffer, especially when administered to people so young.

Is euthanasia in the US protected severely? Does it depend from state to state?

Palliative sedation is often administered as an alternative to euthanasia in Belgium, for people who suffer immensely physically.
Is palliative sedation also common in the US?

If you are against euthanasia, do you make a distinction between administering it in case of endless physical suffering but not in case of administering it for endless psychic suffering or are you against both?

If you are in favor of administering euthanasia in case of endless psychic suffering, can you motivate why and may I ask if you believe that a minimum age ( adult of course ) should apply? Like, at least being 40 years old etc?

Have you yourself known someone who got euthanasized?
Did you support the decision?

If you were a parent and your child was suffering psychically and at one point they think about euthanasia, would you think about supporting them?

Thanks for your insight.
This is a very sensitive subject to me. Because I’m shocked that euthanasia in case of psychic suffering is even possible. No matter how you turn it, euthanasia is turning the lights off forever and I believe that there should have been tried every other solution before resorting to this extremely drastic one.

Elissa.

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Tue 07/17/18 06:48 AM
I believe that people in the last stages in life and dealing with illnesses such as terminal cancer should have the right to leave this world under their own terms. I have witnessed two times a loved one who eventually died from cancer and both times it was not pretty And both times we were praying for the end to come. As I am sure they were too.

But in each case they were dying, it was just a matter of what day. I don't know my feelings on this and mental illness as mental illness while terrible is not a imminent life threatening situation.


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Tue 07/17/18 06:55 AM

I believe that people in the last stages in life and dealing with illnesses such as terminal cancer should have the right to leave this world under their own terms. I have witnessed two times a loved one who eventually died from cancer and both times it was not pretty And both times we were praying for the end to come. As I am sure they were too.

But in each case they were dying, it was just a matter of what day. I don't know my feelings on this and mental illness as mental illness while terrible is not a imminent life threatening situation.




See, that’s what I mean.
I can understand the decision to administer a lethal injection in case of endless physical suffering, but not in case of endless psychic suffering. And definitely not to someone as young as her with her 23 years old. Maybe she would have found peace with life as she aged. So many 20 something people are depressed and find peace with life in their early to mid-30s or even 40s.

Elissa.

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Tue 07/17/18 07:10 AM


I believe that people in the last stages in life and dealing with illnesses such as terminal cancer should have the right to leave this world under their own terms. I have witnessed two times a loved one who eventually died from cancer and both times it was not pretty And both times we were praying for the end to come. As I am sure they were too.

But in each case they were dying, it was just a matter of what day. I don't know my feelings on this and mental illness as mental illness while terrible is not a imminent life threatening situation.




See, that’s what I mean.
I can understand the decision to administer a lethal injection in case of endless physical suffering, but not in case of endless psychic suffering. And definitely not to someone as young as her with her 23 years old. Maybe she would have found peace with life as she aged. So many 20 something people are depressed and find peace with life in their early to mid-30s or even 40s.

Elissa.



I know that would never pass here in the States.. never. and it shouldn't. Nobody knows what science and medicine will find the next 10-20 years for mental health. So how could you kill someone, especially of that age.

It would never happen here.

terminal is totally different.

no photo
Tue 07/17/18 07:19 AM

Ah, what a subject! My brother was terminally ill (not cancer) and his illness was rapid and progressive. I hated seeing him deteriorate so quickly. His body was shutting down over the last year of his life and whilst he could still talk he asked me to help him 'go'. I thought long and hard but just couldn't do it even though he had no quality of life and was bedridden. His solution was to refuse to be fed intravenously (he had lost the capacity to swallow by that time) as he no longer wanted to 'live'. A few months later, he got his wish.

On the other side of the coin, I have my mother who suffers badly with depression and she tells me every day she doesn't want to wake up in the morning. Her mental health doctor has made me aware of how she plans her suicide and my mother has also asked me to help her knowing that my brother asked for my help too. I really think the death of her son exacerbated her depression.

Depression to the person suffering with it is very real and debilitating but different than an illness/disease which causes pain. Either way, it's not nice to watch someone you love suffer but I refuse to help them on their way.


In case of your mother I can understand it better than in case of my friend.

Your mother had to let her child go. Worst that can happen to someone.
My grandmother lost all zest for life as well after my mother’s brother died. When she had lung cancer she wasn’t even scared to die anymore because of what happened to her son a few years earlier.

Your mother is also very elderly probably and in that case I can understand that she is not able to surmount her depression.

But I definitely understand your refusal to help her go.
You don’t want to live with that responsibility which is 100% understandable.

I still cannot accept euthanasia in case of mental suffering but in your mother’s case I can understand it easier than in my friend’s case who was a healthy 23 year old girl with an entire life in front of her who now left behind 2 parents, her 2 brothers and her grandparents on mother’s side.
I can’t understand how any doctor had the will to switch off the light of such a young kid permanently.

Of course euthanasia in case of your brother would have been understandable. He was in endless physical suffering. That is completely different than ending someone’s life because of mental suffering.

Has your mother had the chance to meet other elderly who lost a child?
Is she on antidepressants and has she had therapy for her grief?
How old is she if I may ask?

Elissa

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Tue 07/17/18 07:24 AM
Edited by greeneyes148 on Tue 07/17/18 07:25 AM

Ah, what a subject! My brother was terminally ill (not cancer) and his illness was rapid and progressive. I hated seeing him deteriorate so quickly. His body was shutting down over the last year of his life and whilst he could still talk he asked me to help him 'go'. I thought long and hard but just couldn't do it even though he had no quality of life and was bedridden. His solution was to refuse to be fed intravenously (he had lost the capacity to swallow by that time) as he no longer wanted to 'live'. A few months later, he got his wish.

On the other side of the coin, I have my mother who suffers badly with depression and she tells me every day she doesn't want to wake up in the morning. Her mental health doctor has made me aware of how she plans her suicide and my mother has also asked me to help her knowing that my brother asked for my help too. I really think the death of her son exacerbated her depression.

Depression to the person suffering with it is very real and debilitating but different than an illness/disease which causes pain. Either way, it's not nice to watch someone you love suffer but I refuse to help them on their way.


Great post

I too have am dealing with a family member who has mental illness ( Bi Polar) and she has tried to kill herself. And I refuse to let her.. or walk away because she is sick. It is very very stressful on the entire family. Her doctors are of no help, they just tell me to take he to the hospital... and they pump her full of meds. It is a terrible situation, but death to me is NOT a option for her.

On the other hand, we lost my Mom to cancer last summer and she wanted to go out on her terms. In hospice, they took her off food and liquids..and gave her morphine to start the process. One of my sisters panicked and told the docs to give her liquids again. Mom " came back" to some extent and told my sister... "DO NOT DO THAT AGAIN". She wanted to go and we knew it was time. Had other legal measurers been available to her, Mom would have done it. And we would have allowed it.
All 8 of her kids were there at the end... just wish there was less physical pain for her to endure

Easttowest72's photo
Tue 07/17/18 07:47 AM
At the park Saturday I saw a cutter. She was a beautiful girl. Her arms and legs were permanently scared with fresh cuts. Her condition is so sad. My daughter has a friend who is a cutter but she keeps it covered.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Tue 07/17/18 10:40 AM
I fought suicidal depression and won.

Reality is always reality no matter your expectations.

Reality didn't change, my expectations of reality changed.
I started putting away my delusions and embracing reality.
Its amazing just how many delusions I had and how deeply they were set into me.
By removing my delusions and embracing reality before me, I was able to remove the stress and depression caused by failure of my expectations.

Depression is a wide-spread metal illness.

Many people think that depression is a choice but it isn't.

Many people think depression is is specific but it has different shades.

Depression feeds itself without voluntary participation.

Depressed people tend to stay depressed unless they take decisive steps to stop that type of thinking.

Death is one method but it certainly is not the only method and death, is permanent. No do-over.

Easttowest72's photo
Tue 07/17/18 10:56 AM


At the park Saturday I saw a cutter. She was a beautiful girl. Her arms and legs were permanently scared with fresh cuts. Her condition is so sad. My daughter has a friend who is a cutter but she keeps it covered.


My daughter adopted one of her foster children who also cuts herself. Foster children come with a whole load of problems and the only way this child found to relieve her stress and past traumas was by cutting herself. It's very sad when people do that as they think one pain (cutting) can erase or take away the other pain(trauma). This child is now 20 yrs old and started cutting herself aged 12.

I hope someday they can get past the cutting. The girl I saw at the park needed intervention. She has major permanent scaring.

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Tue 07/17/18 11:32 AM
cutting is a cry for help. Because if they wanted to they could have gone deeper and thru a artery. It is soo sad to see and soo difficult for a family to deal with because you really don't know what to do. hide all the knives?. ( I did that.. doesn't work). Take them to the hospital?.. yep.. that's what their doctor tells you to do... their shrink... the guy who prescribed all the meds. Hospital keeps them for about 7 days to regulates their meds then releases them back to you because that is all the insurance will cover.

The last time I went thru this, I literally screamed at the hospital people.. SHE IS NOT READY TO BE RELEASED.. I got sympathetic eyes and stone faces back...insurance limits.


Tom4Uhere's photo
Tue 07/17/18 12:23 PM
My daughter went thru a period of cutting.
She kept it hidden till it couldn't be hidden any longer.
When the X told me what she found I talked to my daughter about it.
She was suffering from low self-esteem.
Most of it was her interactions with kids at school and how they treated her.
We began giving her self-worth and pointing out just how unique and important she is.
She stopped on her own.

One of my sons went thru a period of self-destruction in his teenage years as well. He too needed a boost in self-worth.

I explained to my kids that peer pressure and school inter-personal dynamics are often abusive. I encouraged them to consider the source and realize their own worth. It made them stronger and their self-esteem made the periods of worthlessness short-lived.

Everybody goes thru a period or three of self-doubt brought on by other's opinions. Everybody needs some encouragement from time to time. It doesn't hurt anyone to give someone a pat on the back when their down.