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Topic: should the president be allowed to pardon himself?
Serchin4MyRedWine Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 3483	Wed 06/06/18 11:55 AM
The whole question is really irrelevant, its just another bone Trump trows out to drive the left wing media bonkers. The Constitution gives the president the right to pardon anyone, period. Some scholars might disagree that it may not mean he can pardon himself but the real argument about this is just an exercise in futility because the Constitution also makes it clear that the President can NOT be indicted criminally as President so there is no need for a self pardon. The ONLY recourse against a sitting president is Impeachment and there is no pardon for that. Mueller has no power to indict or charge the President with any crime, period! kind of “Judgment in cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office … but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to law.” — Article I, section 9, U.S. Constitution the IMPEACHMENT process can only remove the POTUS, but the POTUS is THEN still liable to the proper authorities according to the law. so a POTUS can't be criminally charged while POTUS, but the removal from office allows for them to THEN be criminally charged. Impeachment is the process by the House to charge a government official(is not specific only to the president) with a crime like in the case of Clinton who was charged with perjury and obstruction. Then must go to the Senate to convict such official to remove them from office. This takes 2/3 majority vote and is typically presided over by the Senate President(the Vice President) or the Chief Justice. As in Clinton's case, he was in impeached but remained in office because as in most cases the Senate RARELY convicts. So even if the best wishes of the far left Dems came true and the very slim possiblity Trump was ever "impeached" he would never be"convicted"and removed from office by the Senate and thereby would never face criminal charges,Period!

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 06/06/18 12:04 PM Edited by msharmony on Wed 06/06/18 12:06 PM
The whole question is really irrelevant, its just another bone Trump trows out to drive the left wing media bonkers. The Constitution gives the president the right to pardon anyone, period. Some scholars might disagree that it may not mean he can pardon himself but the real argument about this is just an exercise in futility because the Constitution also makes it clear that the President can NOT be indicted criminally as President so there is no need for a self pardon. The ONLY recourse against a sitting president is Impeachment and there is no pardon for that. Mueller has no power to indict or charge the President with any crime, period! kind of “Judgment in cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office … but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to law.” — Article I, section 9, U.S. Constitution the IMPEACHMENT process can only remove the POTUS, but the POTUS is THEN still liable to the proper authorities according to the law. so a POTUS can't be criminally charged while POTUS, but the removal from office allows for them to THEN be criminally charged. Impeachment is the process by the House to charge a government official(is not specific only to the president) with a crime like in the case of Clinton who was charged with perjury and obstruction. Then must go to the Senate to convict such official to remove them from office. This takes 2/3 majority vote and is typically presided over by the Senate President(the Vice President) or the Chief Justice. As in Clinton's case, he was in impeached but remained in office because as in most cases the Senate RARELY convicts. So even if the best wishes of the far left Dems came true and the very slim possiblity Trump was ever "impeached" he would never be"convicted"and removed from office by the Senate and thereby would never face criminal charges,Period! slim is not none. This isnt a semen stain on a dress, this is potential ACTUAL CORRUPTION, colluding with foreign government to obstruct the federal elections. probably as likely as them finding any EVIDENCE that Hilary did anything illegal, but both sides still have their hopes ... History sets the example that no president gets removed, but it also set the example that no president has NO political or military experience, so in the new normal, anything is possible.

Serchin4MyRedWine Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 3483	Wed 06/06/18 01:25 PM Edited by Serchin4MyRedWine on Wed 06/06/18 01:27 PM
The whole question is really irrelevant, its just another bone Trump trows out to drive the left wing media bonkers. The Constitution gives the president the right to pardon anyone, period. Some scholars might disagree that it may not mean he can pardon himself but the real argument about this is just an exercise in futility because the Constitution also makes it clear that the President can NOT be indicted criminally as President so there is no need for a self pardon. The ONLY recourse against a sitting president is Impeachment and there is no pardon for that. Mueller has no power to indict or charge the President with any crime, period! kind of “Judgment in cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office … but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to law.” — Article I, section 9, U.S. Constitution the IMPEACHMENT process can only remove the POTUS, but the POTUS is THEN still liable to the proper authorities according to the law. so a POTUS can't be criminally charged while POTUS, but the removal from office allows for them to THEN be criminally charged. Impeachment is the process by the House to charge a government official(is not specific only to the president) with a crime like in the case of Clinton who was charged with perjury and obstruction. Then must go to the Senate to convict such official to remove them from office. This takes 2/3 majority vote and is typically presided over by the Senate President(the Vice President) or the Chief Justice. As in Clinton's case, he was in impeached but remained in office because as in most cases the Senate RARELY convicts. So even if the best wishes of the far left Dems came true and the very slim possiblity Trump was ever "impeached" he would never be"convicted"and removed from office by the Senate and thereby would never face criminal charges,Period! slim is not none. This isnt a semen stain on a dress, this is potential ACTUAL CORRUPTION, colluding with foreign government to obstruct the federal elections. probably as likely as them finding any EVIDENCE that Hilary did anything illegal, but both sides still have their hopes ... History sets the example that no president gets removed, but it also set the example that no president has NO political or military experience, so in the new normal, anything is possible. There has and probably never will be any evidence of Collusion, which by the way is NOT a crime anyway. Also there has been no evidence of CORRUPTION either. As long as this hoax investigation has been going on and how many leaks there have been, if there was ANY evidence of ANY crime it would have been leaked by now. The only Crimes that have been committed during the campaign have been by the FBI and DOJ. The IG (a democrat inspector general) has referred the deputy director of the FBI for criminal charges. Comey is next for as the IG report says "insubordination". This IG report of 500 pages will expose just how CORRUPT Obama's administration really was. All Mueller has gotten are crimes committed almost 20 years ago by Manafort(which were investigated in 2005 and cleared of), a simple perjury charge against Flynn which by the way the FBI testified they didn't think he lied. This whole thing run by Six Democrats all linked to Hillary smells so bad its impossible to tell how much damage it has done to the rule of law in our country.

shovelheaddave Joined Fri 05/11/18 Posts: 668	Wed 06/06/18 01:29 PM
The whole question is really irrelevant, its just another bone Trump trows out to drive the left wing media bonkers. The Constitution gives the president the right to pardon anyone, period. Some scholars might disagree that it may not mean he can pardon himself but the real argument about this is just an exercise in futility because the Constitution also makes it clear that the President can NOT be indicted criminally as President so there is no need for a self pardon. The ONLY recourse against a sitting president is Impeachment and there is no pardon for that. Mueller has no power to indict or charge the President with any crime, period! kind of “Judgment in cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office … but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to law.” — Article I, section 9, U.S. Constitution the IMPEACHMENT process can only remove the POTUS, but the POTUS is THEN still liable to the proper authorities according to the law. so a POTUS can't be criminally charged while POTUS, but the removal from office allows for them to THEN be criminally charged. Impeachment is the process by the House to charge a government official(is not specific only to the president) with a crime like in the case of Clinton who was charged with perjury and obstruction. Then must go to the Senate to convict such official to remove them from office. This takes 2/3 majority vote and is typically presided over by the Senate President(the Vice President) or the Chief Justice. As in Clinton's case, he was in impeached but remained in office because as in most cases the Senate RARELY convicts. So even if the best wishes of the far left Dems came true and the very slim possiblity Trump was ever "impeached" he would never be"convicted"and removed from office by the Senate and thereby would never face criminal charges,Period! But,RARELY [NEVER!!!} have we EVER had a president actively collude with a foriegn government to interfere with out sacred election process,and turn our government into the circus that THIS ONE has,without evident qualm,regret,or hesitation!!! we have had them obstruct justice before,but trump has taken it to such levels that even his own party hates him,and all of the things that he has done to embarrass both our government,AND their party!!! i think that when it gets to the point that the impeachment vote goes to the senate,after robert mueller makes public the evidence that he has against trump,and ESPECIALLY after the midterm elections,then 'rarely' might not be quite so impossible to think of as you are hoping! and,THEN,like harmony said,and backed up with chapter and verse out of the constitution,i think that it will go to the indictment phase,and proceeed from there,or else it will be an even BIGGER stain on our government,AND the republican party,who has nurtured this viper to its bosom!! if trump is smart[and lucky enough to be given the option!],he will resign like nixon did,but i REALLY hope that they dont give him that option,cuz what he has done to our government,and our country is inexcusable,and i feel that he MUST be made an example of!!! [but,since when has trump ever done the 'smart' thing??] so,keep on telling yourself whatever you have to tell yourself to make it through the day!!

Serchin4MyRedWine Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 3483	Wed 06/06/18 01:37 PM
The whole question is really irrelevant, its just another bone Trump trows out to drive the left wing media bonkers. The Constitution gives the president the right to pardon anyone, period. Some scholars might disagree that it may not mean he can pardon himself but the real argument about this is just an exercise in futility because the Constitution also makes it clear that the President can NOT be indicted criminally as President so there is no need for a self pardon. The ONLY recourse against a sitting president is Impeachment and there is no pardon for that. Mueller has no power to indict or charge the President with any crime, period! kind of “Judgment in cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office … but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to law.” — Article I, section 9, U.S. Constitution the IMPEACHMENT process can only remove the POTUS, but the POTUS is THEN still liable to the proper authorities according to the law. so a POTUS can't be criminally charged while POTUS, but the removal from office allows for them to THEN be criminally charged. Impeachment is the process by the House to charge a government official(is not specific only to the president) with a crime like in the case of Clinton who was charged with perjury and obstruction. Then must go to the Senate to convict such official to remove them from office. This takes 2/3 majority vote and is typically presided over by the Senate President(the Vice President) or the Chief Justice. As in Clinton's case, he was in impeached but remained in office because as in most cases the Senate RARELY convicts. So even if the best wishes of the far left Dems came true and the very slim possiblity Trump was ever "impeached" he would never be"convicted"and removed from office by the Senate and thereby would never face criminal charges,Period! But,RARELY [NEVER!!!} have we EVER had a president actively collude with a foriegn government to interfere with out sacred election process,and turn our government into the circus that THIS ONE has,without evident qualm,regret,or hesitation!!! we have had them obstruct justice before,but trump has taken it to such levels that even his own party hates him,and all of the things that he has done to embarrass both our government,AND their party!!! i think that when it gets to the point that the impeachment vote goes to the senate,after robert mueller makes public the evidence that he has against trump,and ESPECIALLY after the midterm elections,then 'rarely' might not be quite so impossible to think of as you are hoping! and,THEN,like harmony said,and backed up with chapter and verse out of the constitution,i think that it will go to the indictment phase,and proceeed from there,or else it will be an even BIGGER stain on our government,AND the republican party,who has nurtured this viper to its bosom!! if trump is smart[and lucky enough to be given the option!],he will resign like nixon did,but i REALLY hope that they dont give him that option,cuz what he has done to our government,and our country is inexcusable,and i feel that he MUST be made an example of!!! [but,since when has trump ever done the 'smart' thing??] so,keep on telling yourself whatever you have to tell yourself to make it through the day!! Yeah keep watching CNN if it makes you feel informed. You have six top democrat prosecutors investigating this for over a year a not a single piece of evidence of colluding with a foreign government! Keep smoking what ever it is that makes you live in a fantasy land.

greeneyes148 Joined Fri 12/25/15 Posts: 5830	Wed 06/06/18 01:41 PM
should the president be allowed to pardon himself? ____________________________________________________________________ If he burped, belched, sneezed or passed wind... certainly he has that right...and he should. Its the polite thing to do, especially if he is in a big meeting or a elevator. imagine the headlines if he didn't pardon himself?.. especially with the last infraction.

Serchin4MyRedWine Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 3483	Wed 06/06/18 01:43 PM
should the president be allowed to pardon himself? ____________________________________________________________________ If he burped, belched, sneezed or passed wind... certainly he has that right...and he should. Its the polite thing to do, especially if he is in a big meeting or a elevator. imagine the headlines if he didn't pardon himself?.. especially with the last infraction. Thats probably all he is guilty of

greeneyes148 Joined Fri 12/25/15 Posts: 5830	Wed 06/06/18 01:48 PM
should the president be allowed to pardon himself? ____________________________________________________________________ If he burped, belched, sneezed or passed wind... certainly he has that right...and he should. Its the polite thing to do, especially if he is in a big meeting or a elevator. imagine the headlines if he didn't pardon himself?.. especially with the last infraction. Thats probably all he is guilty of I'm sure there would be a FBI investigation

BlakeIAM Joined Wed 04/25/18 Posts: 1140	Wed 06/06/18 02:56 PM
The whole question is really irrelevant, its just another bone Trump trows out to drive the left wing media bonkers. The Constitution gives the president the right to pardon anyone, period. Some scholars might disagree that it may not mean he can pardon himself but the real argument about this is just an exercise in futility because the Constitution also makes it clear that the President can NOT be indicted criminally as President so there is no need for a self pardon. The ONLY recourse against a sitting president is Impeachment and there is no pardon for that. Mueller has no power to indict or charge the President with any crime, period! kind of “Judgment in cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office … but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to law.” — Article I, section 9, U.S. Constitution the IMPEACHMENT process can only remove the POTUS, but the POTUS is THEN still liable to the proper authorities according to the law. so a POTUS can't be criminally charged while POTUS, but the removal from office allows for them to THEN be criminally charged. Impeachment is the process by the House to charge a government official(is not specific only to the president) with a crime like in the case of Clinton who was charged with perjury and obstruction. Then must go to the Senate to convict such official to remove them from office. This takes 2/3 majority vote and is typically presided over by the Senate President(the Vice President) or the Chief Justice. As in Clinton's case, he was in impeached but remained in office because as in most cases the Senate RARELY convicts. So even if the best wishes of the far left Dems came true and the very slim possiblity Trump was ever "impeached" he would never be"convicted"and removed from office by the Senate and thereby would never face criminal charges,Period! But,RARELY [NEVER!!!} have we EVER had a president actively collude with a foriegn government to interfere with out sacred election process,and turn our government into the circus that THIS ONE has,without evident qualm,regret,or hesitation!!! we have had them obstruct justice before,but trump has taken it to such levels that even his own party hates him,and all of the things that he has done to embarrass both our government,AND their party!!! i think that when it gets to the point that the impeachment vote goes to the senate,after robert mueller makes public the evidence that he has against trump,and ESPECIALLY after the midterm elections,then 'rarely' might not be quite so impossible to think of as you are hoping! and,THEN,like harmony said,and backed up with chapter and verse out of the constitution,i think that it will go to the indictment phase,and proceeed from there,or else it will be an even BIGGER stain on our government,AND the republican party,who has nurtured this viper to its bosom!! if trump is smart[and lucky enough to be given the option!],he will resign like nixon did,but i REALLY hope that they dont give him that option,cuz what he has done to our government,and our country is inexcusable,and i feel that he MUST be made an example of!!! [but,since when has trump ever done the 'smart' thing??] so,keep on telling yourself whatever you have to tell yourself to make it through the day!! Ha ha. Your lies and fake outrage are a riot. By all means carry on. Trump 2020

shovelheaddave Joined Fri 05/11/18 Posts: 668	Wed 06/06/18 04:07 PM
The whole question is really irrelevant, its just another bone Trump trows out to drive the left wing media bonkers. The Constitution gives the president the right to pardon anyone, period. Some scholars might disagree that it may not mean he can pardon himself but the real argument about this is just an exercise in futility because the Constitution also makes it clear that the President can NOT be indicted criminally as President so there is no need for a self pardon. The ONLY recourse against a sitting president is Impeachment and there is no pardon for that. Mueller has no power to indict or charge the President with any crime, period! kind of “Judgment in cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office … but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to law.” — Article I, section 9, U.S. Constitution the IMPEACHMENT process can only remove the POTUS, but the POTUS is THEN still liable to the proper authorities according to the law. so a POTUS can't be criminally charged while POTUS, but the removal from office allows for them to THEN be criminally charged. Impeachment is the process by the House to charge a government official(is not specific only to the president) with a crime like in the case of Clinton who was charged with perjury and obstruction. Then must go to the Senate to convict such official to remove them from office. This takes 2/3 majority vote and is typically presided over by the Senate President(the Vice President) or the Chief Justice. As in Clinton's case, he was in impeached but remained in office because as in most cases the Senate RARELY convicts. So even if the best wishes of the far left Dems came true and the very slim possiblity Trump was ever "impeached" he would never be"convicted"and removed from office by the Senate and thereby would never face criminal charges,Period! But,RARELY [NEVER!!!} have we EVER had a president actively collude with a foriegn government to interfere with out sacred election process,and turn our government into the circus that THIS ONE has,without evident qualm,regret,or hesitation!!! we have had them obstruct justice before,but trump has taken it to such levels that even his own party hates him,and all of the things that he has done to embarrass both our government,AND their party!!! i think that when it gets to the point that the impeachment vote goes to the senate,after robert mueller makes public the evidence that he has against trump,and ESPECIALLY after the midterm elections,then 'rarely' might not be quite so impossible to think of as you are hoping! and,THEN,like harmony said,and backed up with chapter and verse out of the constitution,i think that it will go to the indictment phase,and proceeed from there,or else it will be an even BIGGER stain on our government,AND the republican party,who has nurtured this viper to its bosom!! if trump is smart[and lucky enough to be given the option!],he will resign like nixon did,but i REALLY hope that they dont give him that option,cuz what he has done to our government,and our country is inexcusable,and i feel that he MUST be made an example of!!! [but,since when has trump ever done the 'smart' thing??] so,keep on telling yourself whatever you have to tell yourself to make it through the day!! Yeah keep watching CNN if it makes you feel informed. You have six top democrat prosecutors investigating this for over a year a not a single piece of evidence of colluding with a foreign government! Keep smoking what ever it is that makes you live in a fantasy land. LMAO!!! that is HILARIOUSLY IRONIC coming from someone who belongs to a party whose top republicans persecuted hillary clinton for YEARS,and didnt get a single indictment out of all that government money they wasted,just cuz they were butthurt!!!!! we have already got 17 indctments[and counting!!!],and 5 guilty pleas out of robert mueller's investigation... so..... OUR investigation 17 YOUR investigation 0 now,go away... the ADULTS are talking!!

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Wed 06/06/18 04:08 PM


BlakeIAM Joined Wed 04/25/18 Posts: 1140	Wed 06/06/18 04:21 PM
Trump 2020

Lpdon Joined Thu 02/25/10 Posts: 18772	Wed 06/06/18 06:54 PM
well,as anybody who has watched the news in the past couple of days already knows,donald trump's lawyer,rudy giuliani,is claiming that it is impossible for donald trump to obstruct justice,since he is the top legal official in the country,and has the right to interfere in any federal legal case,and,if he commits a crime,that he can just pardon himself for it,if he is convicted. to me,that means that he has put himself above the law,which i was taught to be totally untrue,as NOBODY is above the law,including the president of the united states. do you agree with this? should the president be above the law? and,should he have the power to pardon himself,if he is found guilty of commiting a crime? what do you think? That's a huge grey area. I don't think a President can pardon themselves. That is why the Nixon and Ford prearranged the pardon if Nixon stepped down which was the right thing to do. That would have taken down both Republicans and Democrats. No one wanted to see Nixon brought up on charges. The whole house of cards would have come down. I admire President for that Pardon. It killed his career but he did what was right for the country.

Lpdon Joined Thu 02/25/10 Posts: 18772	Wed 06/06/18 06:59 PM
well,as anybody who has watched the news in the past couple of days already knows,donald trump's lawyer,rudy giuliani,is claiming that it is impossible for donald trump to obstruct justice,since he is the top legal official in the country,and has the right to interfere in any federal legal case,and,if he commits a crime,that he can just pardon himself for it,if he is convicted. to me,that means that he has put himself above the law,which i was taught to be totally untrue,as NOBODY is above the law,including the president of the united states. do you agree with this? should the president be above the law? and,should he have the power to pardon himself,if he is found guilty of commiting a crime? what do you think? Tat also isn't correct. You should read up on the different branches and checks and balances. The President is part of the Executive Branch not the Judicial Branch. The top law enforcement official in the country is not the President but the Attorney General of the United States. Our government is set up so no one is above the law. Your using some very bad liberal talking points.

Lpdon Joined Thu 02/25/10 Posts: 18772	Wed 06/06/18 07:00 PM
I think the investigation is a waste of tax payer $$. I think the discussion of Trump pardoning himself is just more liberal drama. Pretty much. Even the investigation into Clinton would have ended but he committed perjury.

Lpdon Joined Thu 02/25/10 Posts: 18772	Wed 06/06/18 07:05 PM
I don't think any leader in the "free " world should be able to pardon him or herself. that's for the dictators of this world! Surely you have something in place to cope with something like this? Yes we have the Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch that can handle it. Also the individual states can call a constitutional convention.

Lpdon Joined Thu 02/25/10 Posts: 18772	Wed 06/06/18 07:07 PM
it sure seems like andrew johnson,richard nixon,and bill clinton would have taken advantage of this loophole,if it was an actual thing,and not just a bunch of nonsense dreamed up by an over-the-hill lawyer who is so addled in the head that he cant keep track of his client's lies,and keeps giving him up on national TV,doesnt it?? LMAO!!! You left out JFK and FDR.

shovelheaddave Joined Fri 05/11/18 Posts: 668	Thu 06/07/18 10:21 AM
it sure seems like andrew johnson,richard nixon,and bill clinton would have taken advantage of this loophole,if it was an actual thing,and not just a bunch of nonsense dreamed up by an over-the-hill lawyer who is so addled in the head that he cant keep track of his client's lies,and keeps giving him up on national TV,doesnt it?? LMAO!!! You left out JFK and FDR. i left out 39 OTHERS,too!!! thats because they never tried to impeach THEM,either,and they didnt NEED a pardon!! so,if you had a point,i think that you need to sharpen it a little bit!! :-p

Unknow Joined Sat 01/11/14 Posts: 23369	Thu 06/07/18 10:24 AM
I don't think any leader in the "free " world should be able to pardon him or herself. that's for the dictators of this world! Surely you have something in place to cope with something like this? Yes we have the Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch that can handle it. Also the individual states can call a constitutional convention. Thanks lp

shovelheaddave Joined Fri 05/11/18 Posts: 668	Fri 06/08/18 09:44 AM
well,as anybody who has watched the news in the past couple of days already knows,donald trump's lawyer,rudy giuliani,is claiming that it is impossible for donald trump to obstruct justice,since he is the top legal official in the country,and has the right to interfere in any federal legal case,and,if he commits a crime,that he can just pardon himself for it,if he is convicted. to me,that means that he has put himself above the law,which i was taught to be totally untrue,as NOBODY is above the law,including the president of the united states. do you agree with this? should the president be above the law? and,should he have the power to pardon himself,if he is found guilty of commiting a crime? what do you think? Tat also isn't correct. You should read up on the different branches and checks and balances. The President is part of the Executive Branch not the Judicial Branch. The top law enforcement official in the country is not the President but the Attorney General of the United States. Our government is set up so no one is above the law. Your using some very bad liberal talking points. very good point,except for the fact that you ruined what was a perfectly intelligent answer by trying to editorialize it with your hatred of liberals.