immigrant: person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.


immigrants have many 'legal' statuses

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yeah.. exactly.. and LEGAL being the key word.

because what this tread is about is ILLEGAL ALIENS. no matter which way you spin it.. that is what they are.. because they gained enter into OUR country ILLEGALLY......avoided the law... period

immigration involves contracts

so children cannot enter into contracts, ruling their charge of 'avoiding the law' irrelevant


and many that are undocumented/illegal DID gain entry legally but had documents expire or not be renewed properly

It seems as if Ignorance of the law is just for naturally born citizens.

http://research.lawyers.com/ignorance-of-the-law-may-be-an-excuse.html


Sometimes, however, “willfulness” relates only to the defendant’s state of mind during the commission of the act—as the case may be with crimes like witness tampering or child endangerment—and has nothing to do with the defendant’s knowledge of the applicable criminal law. (For example, a defendant might have no idea that contacting and conversing with an adverse witness can be a criminal act; but that is no excuse if the prosecution can show that the conversations affected the witness.) Your attorney will be able to advise you on whether a willfulness requirement in the charge in your case might allow for a defense of ignorance.
Don’t Stay in the Dark on Purpose

Keep in mind that you cannot purposefully avoid learning applicable criminal laws and then take advantage of your ignorance as a defense. If a prosecutor can demonstrate that you “consciously avoided” knowledge of relevant criminal provisions, a judge at trial would instruct the jury that it should treat you as if you were fully aware of the legal consequences of your conduct. For example, if you opened a restaurant and a health inspector gave you a booklet containing the state’s new health laws for food service providers—which you never bothered to read—you would not likely be able to claim ignorance of a criminal provision contained in that booklet during a subsequent prosecution.

So the restaurant owner would be responsible for the booklet but the illegal would not be.

Who should get the most benefit of doubt? American or illegal?

when they swam the Rio Grand or treks across the boarder they was no thought of contract

immigration involves due process, screening... laws

All of which were totally ignored when they entered this country... again... illegally.

you see, that's why they run when they see the boarder police van or ICE.. They run because they are ILLEGAL.. they know it.. we know it ( well most of us anyway)

Maybe you don't mind having people just walk into your country.. knowing nothing about them or their background.. but I mind.

like I said in a prior post, take the 200,000 or so illegals that we have in our prisons ( seems they weren't too nice.. were they) and round up all the other known illegal Latin gang members off the street.. and boot their a** right back where they came from

thats like asking if the person with a record should get more benefit than the person without


and again the answer will depend upon 'details'

again , with unsubstantiated claims,, which source documented how many non citizens are in prison?


in any case, being in jail also does not mean one is 'not so nice' , we have plenty of jailable offenses that have nothing to do with character or niceness, including,, wait for it, being here illegally


and noone disagreed that people who intentially sneak across the border should (and do) face penalties


the disagreement is that not everyone here illegally came to be that way because they snuck in,,,,



and those who didnt willfully sneak in should not be treated THE SAME as those who did

YES ...... Ignorance of the Law is the same for everyone.

If the American business man can not shy away because he forgot the DETAILS neither can the illegal immigrant. FAIR IS FAIR.

Breaking the Law is Breaking the law.

Only the ones here illegally

the debate is not about breaking the law,, its about the DETAILS and the CONSEQUENCES

if two cars run into each other ,causing injuries,, whether or not the INTENT was to harm or not is the difference between a CRIME and an ACCIDENT, and the consequences are not the same

what one knows or plans determines the consequence of the CRIME


someone who goes through the hoops and hurtles of immigration to be permitted entrance who loses sight of the paperwork timeline, should not be treated the same as one who NEVER did respect the laws and SNUCK in from the start,,,

someone who was brought as a child with no ability to have say one way or the other ,, should not be treated the same as the adult who SNUCK in

Entry into any country you are not a citizen of is a privalige not a right

If people are in a foreign country working again privilege not a right if they leave they take a chance they won't be permitted reentry

If they have been in that foreign country a number of years does not change the privilege to a right

But. Yea there it is lol

If they wanted it to be a right to travel out of the foreign country they could have applied for citizenship then they would have the right to come and go as they could afford ----- why do hey not do that imo it may be because the country they are from govt & population doesn't like the population & govt @ of the country they are working in this they could not go there safely thus they want to take advantage of a better life style without the responsibilities of Being citizens of country they are taking ad antage of and their home country visits may be deadly

They need to make a choice do they want a guaranteed reentry application needs filed

Until they become a citizen it remains a privalige to reenter

If you make o choice you have still decided

still missing the point about the difference between never abiding the laws

and abiding the laws but not staying on top of time frames

or not having a choice regarding the laws, one way or another due to age

Hi ms.Harmony! Well he has been in the white house over 2 weeks. He's just getting warmed up!

got my seat belt on,,,,,,,

Yea mee too!!

I get my information from the Government accounting office which has to track incarcerated inmates... cause we ( Americans) have to pay the cost.

So look it up MSH... as it also listed the type of crimes committed. AND on averaged Illegal aliens are locked 7 times in local jails./. before they graduate to.... Prison

so much for your " nice guy".. spin :)

there is no spin

thanks for the starting point

"The number of criminal aliens in federal prisons in fiscal year 2010 was about 55,000, and the number of SCAAP criminal alien incarcerations in state prison systems and local jails was about 296,000 in fiscal year 2009 (the most recent data available), and the majority were from Mexico"

NOTICE the difference in wording,, the number of criminal aliens(individuals)

and the number of criminal alien incarcerations(arrests)


you are right, people can be arrested more than once in a year and each arrest would show up in the second set of numbers for the year(incarcerations)


AND ALL THAT IS STILL BESIDE THE POINT





being 'nice' has nothing to do with whether one is arrested, one can be arrested for MANY Things,,,including not having the correct papers




so the point STILL STANDS, that if one has respected the law enough to jump through the hurtles of getting in, they should not be treated the same as someone who didnt

and those who were children with no choice should not either