Good evening my beautiful people of m2, shots out to all those who posting' my cyber home, luv ya'll...but lets get right into it. America, let me ask you a question" Do you approve of our country around the world forcing other countries during war time to " Either you play our game or we go to war?". I do a lot of new reading & research & I'm curious how our people feel about that, Please all give feedback especially if you a veteran or currently active in our greatest military in the world? Let's chat!

Can you be so kind to elaborate on topic!!!!!.

Cheeriosoo,

Hey buddy sure I can , okay our country we live in goes into other countries, the far east, the middle east, some African countries, and eastern Europe force these countries to change there rules, communism, socialism, and how other countries reign on there people. let me clear it more....another wards " Stop, what you doing, follow the democracy laws of the U.S> or we will either evade or we will come in and shut you guys down but not in so many words!"

EyeAmYourHost39,

well I feel about this well its like telling " King Tut" you will do what right , you will follow the laws of democracy set by our founding fathers set or we will go to war!" Democracy is what makes America great, why force it. A lot of other countries live by ancient rules & other live with more complicated laws. I don't think we should butt in other countries business. I mean if China would of came to us and say" America you going to be this or that or we will war, we would defiantly hate that.....right?

A good way to find out would be to have a democratic vote after the event.

Problem is killing the opposition is not a democratic process (in theory mmmm not sure about that)

SimplyComplicated,

Hey welcome to my cyber world, you know what< you is totally right but let me ask you this " Do our vote really matter? I mean I voting for Hilary & that didn't turn out good,,,,? We all know voting nice but what can we do to make a difference?

Some claim that free will doesnt exist, if that is true then why would a vote make a difference.

My personal belief is we have only a degree of free will at best.
So I figure the best we can expect is a degree of capability in making a difference.
I further believe what we do between now and the next chance to vote will influence the difference's that occur.
This will be balanced by self, others and the environment

What should we do? I say consider what is best for all three along with the consequences as best we can.

Trump has shown us the power of persuasion I think it would pay us to pay attention and learn how to harness our irrationality along with our rationality for the betterment of self, others and environment.

Then we may be able to encourage rather than force the spread of democracy.
At the same time we may learn to improve on it

Maybe then we can all see eye to eye

yeh all that coziness in the way this country was created. Its all garbage. First the so called founding fathers are nothing of the sort, they are 'constitutors'. That is a person or persons who create contracts for a 3rd party debt collector, hence perfect the contract so that the states all had to pay taxes, by force if necessary. The so called founders merely copied/pasted portions of the magna charta and british bill of rights, nothing too founding in that. In the constitution the obligation of debt is all the king cared about, so he would get his 10% of all the mineral rights. They were not authorized by the people to create the constitution only amend the articles of confederation. Then finally they did not create a democracy, if they did you would be voting on every law ever made, you dont, you only get to vote for overlords who make the law for you. Its is called a democracy 'only' because its a democratic parliament operating within a republic. Sorry to strip the glossy paint job off and show you the desert of the real.

of course not, simply because they create a defacto oligarchic dictatorship in every case including our so called land of the free. People are not taught critical thinking and are not able to comprehend the big picture in many cases without being told what to think.

In short just because the label is democracy does not imply its not a dictatorship in operation.

Even sadam hussein had advisors ;)

EyeAmYourHost39, every vote matters, your candidate win or loose, it matters. I do not understand, election is over, as a country we need to move on and deal with the problems at hand, does not matter anyones belive/side, believe are going to be needed for Congress, in the meanwhile, the elected candidate need a chance to prove is worth of the highest job in our country. I believe in democracy, history will write itself, our country is not that old to prove democracy is wrong. At the end of the day, we live in a freedom, that it comes with many responsibility.

Now the other point at hand, do we really push democracy to other countries, that is a question for you. At this moment, are few countries with believes that they do not like our way of living, why, what is so wrong with the way we live. For the most part, I go my way to make a mark in my life and the life of others. Some one with hate, made the decision to set up 2 bombs, kill 3, one of them a young boy, hundred hurt. I experence our american people raise to the top and help these poeple every way they could. Every way the could resulted on everyone that survive, have a chance to end their life gaining many more days and make the best if it. Those people are mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, soon to be parents.
So my question is, how do we as a country go about this.

I think you need to be very specific with examples of the U.S. doing this.

Because the way you are expressing it implies the U.S. is going into random countries on a whim and just demanding they change their government.
Otherwise there seems to be 3 general means the U.S. goes into a country and forces change.
1. The people or the recognized government of a country ask the U.S. to come in and help enact change (Vietnam, Korea).
2. The U.S. through clandestine operations like training or arms sales helps "rebel" groups fight against a regime, which is usually illegal (Iran, Afghanistan, South America).
3. A country either attacks U.S. allies that ask for help in defending themselves, with the invading country being occupied by the U.S., or a country represents a "clear and present danger" to the U.S., so the U.S. invades and removes the danger and tells the people to choose someone else (Japan, Iraq).

You mention "some African countries."
But that's too vague.
Which African countries and when?
Are you talking about currently? During WWII? Or in the 60's-70's when the U.S. tried to send capital goods demanding the government improve schools to effectively use it and help improve infrastructure?


I don't believe the U.S. has ever done that.
The founding fathers didn't invent "the laws of democracy."
"Democracy" simply = "allow the citizens of your country to choose the government/people they want to represent them."


Not really. The competitive advantages enjoyed by the U.S. is what makes America "great." This includes things like an educated, mobile, adaptable workforce, natural resources, an abundance of food wealth.
Government, when chosen by the people, is ultimately a reflection of the people.
Government doesn't define the people.
People and what they do with what they have is ultimately what makes a country "great."
Not its system of government.
At best a government subsidizes nationally what "great" people do locally.
The system of government of a country simply influences the efficiency of its competitive advantages.
Democracy is more flexible in adapting to necessary change thereby making it more efficient in comparison to other systems of government.


Kinda depends if the government was causing widespread starvation, disease, gassing its own citizens, invading/attacking/nuking its neighbors for religious reasons, stealing international aid packages to sell for weapons to kill anyone that tried to organize and change the government, or kept trying to terrorize China.


Not as an individual, but as a community.
Might as well ask if any one particular drop in the ocean matters.
Not really. But rain wears down mountains. And those are individual drops.


Become more influential within your community, among your friends and family and those you have a personal relationship with, develop more personal relationships with people you see every day.
Realize "differences" are going to take a long time and for the most part are going to be subtle and cumulative, rather than immediate and extreme.

When the USA learns to persuade their president thru AB testing they may be in a position to persuade the world towards democracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GhtcJ3xgXI

US is a Republic,NOT a "Democracy"!

could you explain the Term "Forced Democracy"?

Sincerely,

The United Nations Security Council
The Vatican See
The European Commission
The Trilateral Union
North Atlantic Treaty Organization
Trans Pacfic Partnership
Global Police Force

Good post from ciretom on this.

I want to add a historian's perspective too.

What the United States has done since it's inception, as regards military action in other countries, has changed again and again over the two hundred and thirty or so years. Reasons to attack, invade, or otherwise use force to manipulate other countries has been different in almost every case.

An important historical understanding to make if you want to FACTUALLY analyze what happened, and ask serious questions about it, is that there are almost always two completely different stories being told, about what happens in ANY war or other military action. That is, there is what actually happens and why it does, and then there is the OFFICIAL POLITICIZED VERSION of what happened and why.

They are rarely the same, and this is actually NOT primarily because the people in power are trying to cover up nasty actions (though sometimes it is). Most of the time, the US or ANY nation, or any private company for that matter, (and even individual people, when you get down to it) tells a carefully adjusted and prettied up version of why they act, in order to maximize support at home and in other uninvolved nations or people.

The stories that are told in order to make the action seem justified, change according to the times, for nations as well as for individuals, because they are designed specifically to appeal to what is generally popular.

Finally bringing us to the sort-of myth that the United States habitually uses military force to "create democracies" elsewhere. This PERCEPTION is more the result of a number of big COVER STORIES that were chosen, rather than because it actually happened.

World War One was sold to the US people (who mostly did not want us to go), among other things, as a fight to defend fellow democracies from being overrun by despots. Woodrow Wilson was even reelected in part, with the rallying cry of "He kept US Out Of War!" because we stayed out until AFTER he won reelection in 1916. The real reasons were MUCH more complex.

For various reasons, Americans ALSO didn't want to fight in World War 2. Again, various political statements were made in order to rally us to action, and sometimes that included defending democracy and bringing freedom and democracy to our fellow earthlings. But that doesn't mean we went to war to force other people to vote.

The same thing is true for many of the invasions, incursions, and things such as CIA sponsored "revolutions" in other countries. The OVERT story told, often included at least a mention of democracy being cool, because most Americans do want to at least be able to tell THEIR government what to do, and that means democracy.

In the problem times of the 1960's and 1970's, a combination of things occurred related to this. One was the standard reversal of American opinion which always occurs after wars inevitably fail to cause World Peace and Happiness for all; the other was a collection of differently-sourced propaganda and political movements, which directly attacked the standard "democracy makes everyone happy so lets push it" routine. Part of that was foreign (the USSR encouraged Americans to question the real intentions of their own government), and part of it was a natural backlash of Americans (very like we see in many Trump followers now) who were tired of spending money and American lives, to "liberate" other people who didn't seem to especially appreciate it.

That's how you, the OP, came to have the concern you have presented here, that the US is always trying to FORCE other people to switch to democracy.

The current version is again, slightly different, since instead of opposing Communism, we are dealing with hostile, religion-linked foreign governments, and with non-national terrorist groups . Since a lot of people STILL think (again, especially including the people who wanted Trump to win) that real, uncorrupted democracy will lead to Liberty and Justice for All (or at least for everyone you actually LIKE), the fight against Terrorism has usually included the idea that if we can just topple the dictators and get the People to vote in their own governments, that they will all want to open McDonalds stands and import American cars the next day.

So democracy still gets pushed, but it is neither the real main reason why the US attacked others, nor is preventing it, the main reason why the people we are fighting have been coming after us.

Basically, the idea that you can fix international strife in any way by STOPPING the push for democracy from the US, is an oversimplification, and even if you succeed, nothing in the world will change...except perhaps the cover story you get told for why we are doing what we do.

"It's a Republic if you can keep it madame"

Ben Franklin

Sojourning_Soul...,

Hey buddy welcome back okay, a man of few words....I can relate!

Simpycomplicated,

hey whats new buddy I like the way you broke it down and your words was moving but let ask you this? do you think America tends to world police too much...?

Littleleftofright,

well I agree to disagree....yes we live in the Americas, the most powerful corporation we call a nation in the world but I think we do world police too much at times. I have a thinking sometimes we just have to let other countries work they own problems out!