I agree that this is true for some women Lewis. But I will also add that most people whether male or female seek out someone who has several layers even when they claim they want one thing. I don't think it's about finding a bad girl or bad boy. I dont think many people yearn for someone who is always "bad" either.

They just don't want someone who is one-dimensional because that usually translates into predictable and BORING

I would say that both sexes want someone who is multi- faceted as opposed to one dimensional simply-complicated :)

Freek

Thanks Mike, very kind of you to say..

This is a complexed situation Techno. And very few people look at it from all the different angles.

I personally have tried to explore relationships with men I considered nice, but to whom I was not attracted , and 99% of the time it ended up being awkward and uncomfortable for both of us.

In scenarios like that, I would be asked point blank if I was willing to explore a romantic relationship, even though it was clear to them that I was not attracted to them in that way. And eventually , I would open myself up to the experience ,to see if my feelings would develop over time very honest with the guy about where my heart was at in the process .

But within a month ,when the person who has feelings for you starts to flirt and try to be affectionate when you are not organically feeling it within yourself, I cant tell you how WEIRD the interactions get , and in the end , the guy feels rejected and humiliated despite how good my intentions are.

So it is not a simple matter of acknowledging a nice guy and giving him a chance Techno ,and David M616 also alluded to that issue of acknowledgment and giving nice guys a chance. I have done that several times in the past , and I can honestly say that its something I don't want to try again, because the guy ended up feeling more rejected and depressed in a lonely ,one sided romantic zone, as opposed to the mutually reciprocal warmth of the friendzone. You re kinda damned if you do and damned if you don't in my opinion because ultimately you can't control who you are organically drawn to physically or romantically . That being said, I dont regret being open minded enough to at least give it a shot and I did end up falling love with one of the guys I gave that chance to , so I would definitely encourage people to try going out of their comfort zone a couple of times when it comes to dating. You really never know until you try.

Hello Peggy. :)
I like the way you think. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders. (Where do you live again? Anywhere near Plainfield, Indiana? )

I agree that no one generally rattles off a laundry list of everything he/she is looking for every time the topic is discussed.Certainly there are some presumptions about it. And, as another poster said, we are all basically looking for a very similar set of qualities in a lover, regardless of our gender or sexual orientation.

I was just sharing my experience in order to offer you one man's perspective on your question. And, in fact, while we're talking about my experience, I can offer you a personal anecdote that supports some of your statements in your OP:
Over the course of my last relationship, my ex told me at different times that I met every one of your bullet points above. Particularly number two. (No brag. Just fact.) And, we got along really well, and had a lot of fun together. Yet, she ended up breaking up with me. When she ended the relationship, she told me: "You're a wonderful guy. You've been nothing but good to me, and I'll always love you as a friend. But...you're just not the ONE. And, I'm not willing to settle for second best."
Obviously, I was heartbroken. I was devastated. But, I got it. It's just like you said, there are so many complex factors that go into making a lasting relationship; so many personality traits (For instance.) that must be compatible. And, of course, there has to be that spark.
So, yeah, there is a whole lot more to it than just being a "nice guy."

Still, even though I get that, it is sometimes befuddling to have a woman tell me that she's looking for a guy who very much sounds like her description of me, yet she won't even give me a chance! ;)

But,don't think I'm picking on women here, for I agree with you that men do the same thing. I don't deny that for a minute. I've seen it too many times! I think we can all think of examples of guys we have known who have a female friend that he really likes, maybe even really loves, and she is a really loving, compassionate, Top Notch lady, yet he just can't seem to bring himself to make a commitment to her because he is too busy chasing after every big-boobed blonde bimbo that crosses his field of vision. (*See footnote.)

I think that what we are demonstrating here is that all of us, women or men:
1. Want the best that we can get in everything.
2. Don't always use sound judgement, particularly when it comes to relationships.
3. Finding another individual human being, regardless of gender, who is compatible enough with oneself in order to forge a life-long relationship, makes finding the proverbial needle-in-a-haystack stunningly easy by comparison.

Again, I like the way you think, and I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to offer at least a partial answer to your question. :-)

*Footnote-
1.I'm not saying that all blondes with big boobs are bimbos. (Like you said, many beautiful people are wonderful people.) But, some are.
2. Please forgive my goofy tangent here, but it's just the way my mind works. When I read the phrase "big-boobed blonde bimbo," I immediately think that it sounds like a page out of the Dr. Seuss's ABC Book for Adults.
"Big B...Little b. What begins with b? Big-boobed blonde bimbo. B,b,B."

That's exctly how I conceptualise a "bad boy " Tmom, and I am NEVER attracted to that kind of guy and I think the women who are emotionally balance avoid that kind of guy like the plague.

The traits I am attracted to that are commonly associated with the bad boy, are confidence, assertiveness, adventure, passion, but as it turns out , Ive been loky to find that in men who I would label mice and multi-faceted.

Well said ... I think it's also the old "we all want what we can't have" mentality.

I see your point Joe and agree with it to a large extent, but to be fair to the self- proclaimed nice -guy in a chatroom setting , people are asked to describe themselves to the best of their ability, which lends itself to alot of subjectivity. Most of us believe we are nice lol, but in reality .some of us are nice on occasion and not really nice at our core , and are not even aware of that fact

And I do think there is some validity to the saying that "Good guys " finish last , but I don;t think that it is their goodness that causes them to finish last . I suspect that people who don't enderstand how the world is wired , and how to set healthy boundaries finish last . And sadly, that often tends to be the case with the man we brand as " the good guy"

I also don't think that "finishing" or being successful should only be conceptualised in terms of wealth or acolades. Harmonious authentic relationships, and a clear conscious should be considered as symbols of success too, and I do think that balanced nice guys are rewarded with such blessings alot of the time. Bt ofcourse there are always exceptions to the rule.

You have a point there Crystal. The word "nice" in English parlance is often code as Blondey said for " not my type", and that could entail incompatabiliities that range from a sexual/romantic nature to incompatabilities in lifestyle, goals or values, that forever places that individual in the friend zone

Oh my! What a lot of typos My apologies . Let's try this again ....

That's exctly how I conceptualise a "bad boy " Tmom, and I am NEVER attracted to that kind of guy .And I think the women who are emotionally balanced, avoid that kind of guy like the plague.

The traits I am attracted to, that are commonly associated with the bad boy, are confidence, assertiveness, adventure and passion, but as it turns out , Ive been lucky to find those qualities in men who I would label as " nice and multi-faceted."

I wouldn;t be surprised if this ended up being the truth for most guys Lewis

You may have a point there pqmoonshine

Maybe many of us women come across as way too intense for the average male

In my opinion , you have offered a very good example of why the word "nice" needs to be redefined John. I metioned the word "balance" several times in this thread, and to me, niceness is most appealing when it is authentic and balanced eg You give up your seat for a senior citizen in a bus, out of the sheer gooness of your heart, but you are also capable of putting someone in their place when they attempt to disrespect you. That's what I call a BALANCED nice guy. That's the kind of niceness I find appealing And as I mentioned before, apart from niceness, there are other factors and qualties that women look for in a mate that are considered as important as niceness.

Being a nice guy is necessary for most women but in and of itself it is not sufficient as other variables are also important. Trying to base attraction to another of either sex on one dimension is foolish and likely to be futile as so many others are essential too.

Thanks for the visual Mike! I think I need to get me some pearls !

I thinl you may have misunderstood the original OP Igor , and it's understandable because I did branch out into several sub-topics, mone of which was the "nice guy" who pretends to be nice to get what he wants. And I totally agree with your logic in that regard.

But the original OP was about genuinely nice guys who claim they are rejected because they are labelled too nice.And the question was if root of their rejection was their "niceness" as they claim, or is it their naivete regarding the complexities of the dating world?

I agree NameisJenny. Blondey made a very valid point

I don't understand the point you are trying to make bear9027, but welcome to the forum!

Thanks for the affirmation DavidM616

And Im sorry your relationship didn't work out as you had hoped, especially with all the positives you both had going for you. It's really frustrating when that happens

I agree with all 3 of your bullet points especially the last one. Finding a mate would be sooooo much easier if we were just able to focus on the compatability factor for building a life-long relationship together.

I also have an interesting anecdote that relates to that. I have a smart, kind, talented and gorgeous friend who was in a 2 year relationship with a nice guy, who she cared deeply for, but who she never fell in love with. Even with that being the case, she told me that she was prepared to marry him because she admired his cosistecy and commitment to their relationship which she had bee lacking form previous partners, They eventually ended the relationship because she wanted to start a family as soon as possible as she was in her 30s and worried about her biological clock and he was unwilling to commit to a time frame for doing so.

But 3 months later , she met a man who is flawed, but with whom she was captivated in every way, and she tells that the relationship experience is so much more fulfiling with him than with the man she was comfortable and compatible in a number of ways.

My point is this. I see nothing wrong with settling for someone who doesn't light that spark in you because the risk of waiting for that person sometimes is that we end up empty handed which is hard for a lot of people. But I am really happy for the people like my friend who hang in there for the person who does light that spark in them and makes them feel hot, warm and LOVED, as they reciprocate equally. Does that mean that her relationship with the new guy will last longer? No it doesn't. But life is short and I wish for everyone that they find a life partner who helps them to make every minute of this short life as happy and as fulfiling as possible.