spider:

I get exhausted by the back-tracking required to have a conversation with you...

Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about. You have to be more explicit in your complaints about me. I don't know what you are talking about, so your comment is pointless and frustrating. If I'm not being clear...I really want to know! Why should I waste my time making posts that aren't understood?

You use a sliding scale... quite often... and in order to show it... one needs to go back through posts and quote you... which is exhausting... I already did this before... I am not quite sure how you could not be aware of this...

I am beginning to question what your intentions actually are.

It is like this... I refuse to back through these words for the purpose of showing your duplicity in your ambigious reasoning which contains an infinite amount of everchanging constants, all of which evolve to fill a particular supportive role in your arguement...

If there were a prize at the end for me, then I may consider the notion again, I have already done it once... it is not hard to do...

You go back through your own words if you are truly that concerned...

Good day to you...Cheers!!

My intentions are to post here unharassed. Please, don't offer complaints if you are not willing to offer examples to back it up. I simply don't know what you mean. The last time you offered a complaint, I showed that it was your misunderstanding. It's frustrating to me for you to say these things, without offering any examples. Just like Abras list of God is X, but not. No truth to it at all. Sure, I'll give you that you guys probably just don't understand my posts. Sure, maybe I'm not a good communicator. But if you are going to make a post bashing me by claiming that my beliefs are contradictory and then say you aren't going to give any examples so that I might possibly learn from my mistakes or clarify your misunderstanding...yeah, that's not productive, nice or fair.

Spider wrote:
“Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
You aren't exactly batting 1000 here.”

And you sir, aren’t even batting.

All you seem to ever do is give unsupported conflicting contradictive opinions and act like they are the gospel truth.

I’m with Creativesoul, talking with you is a total waste of energy.

You accuse everyone else of being locked into a box and being unable to break free, but in all honestly Spider, as far as I can see you are the only one who’s doing that!

I’m with Anoasis too, I think enjoying life is better than being a stuffed shirt.

Have a good life Spider.

spider:

I would never intentionally attack anyone... though you feel harassed?...Harassed?

Surely you jest.

I just gave the plain and simple reasons, in general, why I have gotten exhausted having or following conversation with you.
I mean no harm... I can assure you... No ill will whatsoever...

Define harassment for me, would you?

Harrassment is to question anything he says as possibly not being the gospel truth.

He finds that to be personally offensive.

Spider may be right or wrong but he has been very good about trying to answer any question I have had honestly.I respect that.

creativesoul,



You say that and then you make a comment like this...



I am trying to communicate with you...you seem to be not understanding something I have said, but you refuse to tell me what. What is the point in me trying to communicate with you and Abra if you guys only want to say "You aren't makin' sense and we won't tell ya why!" I guess you can't see why that would be frustrating, but trust me, it IS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BACK TRACK! You can tell me "I'm confused, I don't understand what you mean by X" and I WILL do the back tracking and come back to you. I want you to understand Christianity, because I feel certain that once you understand, you will become a Christian, so I'm willing to do the work.

But PLEASE understand that it's not fair to me to offer complaints about my posts and not a single breadcrumb so I can figure out what you are talking about. That is harassing to me, because you are complaining without offering me any chance to improve myself.

You offer utterly useless comments like


which do nothing to help me. Just makes me feel like I have failed to get my point across. Thanks man, that's want someone as obsessive as me needs is to be told that his posts aren't clear and "I'm not going to tell you what is not clear."

Thank you, I do try to communicate and answer questions.

It's harrassing to have someone come into a thread say "I get exhausted by the back-tracking required to have a conversation with you" and then refuse to offer anything that would help me to clear up the misunderstanding or to improve my communication skills. I believe that if you don't have any suggestions for improvements, then you have no room to complain.

I knew that your contrition would be short lived. All it took was a couple posts for you to start bashing me again.

Do you have a real name Abracadabra? Mine is Johnnie. I’m a real person, with a heart and spirit.

That’s hardly bashing you Johnnie.

You DO get personally offended when people don’t agree with what you say.

At least I never claimed that your heart isn’t open to God.

I thought Creativesoul was being very polite toward you on several occasions in this thread when he said that your explanations are simply to contradictive.

You took personal offense to that.

Why should you take personal offense to such a thing?

Just accept that he doesn’t care for your view and move on.

What’s so hard about that?

spider...

I am reminded of a time when I was attending a friend of mine's church on Sunday, as a sort of favor to him. I attended church quite regularly, somewhere in the neighborhood of four to five times a week. Some days I attended both, morning and evening services... It was the beginning of my "renaissance" as a human being... I had been "saved" and wholeheartedly wanted, asked, and received righteousness, knowledge and forgiveness...I am fully aware of the power of love that God has, and I believe that "Jesus" is a wonderful presence in my life, the source of all....still to this day.

Now mind you, I was in the midst of the longest regular church attendance period of my life. I was still "on fire" as it were, with all the revelations that were made clear to me by our God...

So, I am at my friends church, which happened to be the same type that I attended, only a slightly "more traditional" variety.... As the services were happening there was singing and dancing... many of the songs I already knew by heart, so I also sung along... I was so enjoying myself...as was my wife...At the end of the services, there is usually an altar call... where one can go up to the alter and pray, with "help" from the elders and other upstanding members, about whatever it was that burdened that particular person... I always made it habit to go pray... most often for the knowledge and righteousness that I so desired ... just because of my "thirst"... which I still have...

At this point though, an elder of this church placed his hand on my head, a little forcefully, and started praying for my forgiveness with words that would indicate that I was not forgiven... I politely and submissively ignored his prayer, prayed for his "sight", then continued to pray for whatever it was I prayed for on that day... After I stood up, he started to go on and on about the importance of salvation and such, for quite some time, without ever asking... When he was finished, I informed him of my relationship with "Jesus" and I thanked him for his concern... with a genuine ear-to-ear God induced smile... I was tickled...

And I now thank you spider... for your concern...

If the reader stays in the New Testament it seems as though all of the hell, fire, and brimstone stuff disappears... until Revelations... which I dismiss as utter hallucination, or something else delusional like that.

Honestly spider...I AM sorry that I questioned your intentions, perhaps you truly do not know why or how your message could be confusing or exhausting to someone like myself, and truly it is of no consequence...

I would be happy to answer any questions you may have for me.

Please, call me SpiderCMB or Spider. It makes it easier on those who don't know my name. I think first names should be saved for emails, just to avoid confusion.



He's not saying that he doesn't care for my view, he's saying it doesn't make sense. Then he says he won't tell me what doesn't make sense to him, so I get frustrated. I'm trying to communicate and if someone can't understand what I'm saying, then I'm wasting my time. I take my posts about religion very seriously, because I do believe that souls (including mine) are in the balance. So I want to make sense. If he doesn't want to hear what I am saying, fine. But saying that I'm confusing is like sending mixed signals. In one regard, he's trying to understand what I'm saying...open to understanding my position. And on the other hand, he's refusing to help me explain any misunderstandings to him.



It is offensive when you insult and denegrate the Bible. It is offensive when you claim that Jesus was a pantheist. I don't care if you disagree with me, but don't go tearing through my religion and challenging the basic precepts of Christianity and not expect me to respond. You obviously can't see how you treat Christianity and that's a problem. You think I get offended when you offer your opinions and that's not it at all. The offense comes when expressing your opinions requires that you insult my beliefs. "The Bible is just a book written by men"...you say that a lot. I think of the Bible as the most important document ever written, so I get offended. Not because I worship the Bible (as you like to say), but because it is holy to me as the word of God. I have asked this before, many times: Can you try to talk about your religous beliefs without assaulting MY beliefs? No, you don't do it directly or personally, but if I were going through threads insulting Pantheism, I imagine you might get offended as would many other people who post here. I'm not saying you shouldn't share your beliefs, but why not keep the beliefs about how corrupt many Christians are, how false the Bible is, how contradictory Christian beliefs are to yourself?

If one looks for ways to be offended...one will surely find those ways... and vice-versa

For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks...

In times of strife, character is not built, it is displayed...

It's my pleasure.



The word "Hell" is mentioned 23 times in the New Testament, only four of those instances are found in revelations. Jesus used the word Hell (Sheol) 15 times. But sometimes the condition of "Hell" is spoken of without using the word...did I say "sometimes"? I meant most times.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hel_bibl.htm




Then please, don't post about your confusion anymore unless you can offer something constructive. I would much rather not have a conversation with you than a one sided conversation where you say "It doesn't make sense" and leave me frustrated and confused as to what you are talking about. I'm not trying to be rude, but it really gets under my skin when you do that. Others who no longer post here did the same thing. I'm not here wearing a mask or playing a game, I'm here because I want to share my knowledge of apologetics with anyone who is interested. If it is confusing to you and you won't offer any constructive comments or tell me what is confusing, then you aren't interested.



No thank you. I'll be happy to answer any questions you ask me, but I asked you a question a couple posts ago, which you have yet to answer. I don't want to start on new questions while the old one is still hanging around out there.

===============================================================

The topics we are trying to discuss are usually covered in a thesis by someone who has studied the Bible for years and is talking to an audience who has studied the Bible even longer. Usually, they are on the same wavelength on the majority of doctrine. I don't doubt that what I have posted is confusing, it's a huge topic and I haven't dedicated enough time to my posts, but the only way I can improve my presentation is with constructive criticism. I welcome construtive criticism. Even if I don't agree with you, I will thank you for your attempt to help me. This goes for anyone and everyone who reads these posts.

If you have a problem with any of my posts, then step up, be a man and send me an email. This is really getting ridiculous. Maybe I should follow you around from thread to thread making snide and cryptic comments.

Alright...there are way too many trees here, and I cannot see the forest as a result...


Darn it... and to top it all off, now I am not allowed to say that I am confused... it is a good thing though...


because I am NOT confused... not in the least...

This is Abra's thread... and you have not consumed that much of my energy... even less now... my "friend"...


Do as you see fit my good man...do as you see fit


Live, Love, Laugh, Learn...


Michael Gabriel

Dear Spider, no wonder you get so upset. If you going to discuss religious concepts on an open public forum you really need to understand that religion is the TOPIC of discussion. You shouldn’t be personally offended when someone voices a view that you do not believe.



If you had any respect for pantheism you wouldn’t feel that way.



I’m sorry to have to tell you this Spider, but people don’t own religions.



I treat is just like any another religion. I question it! If you think I don’t question my own religion your wrong.



When people question a religion that you just happen to believe in they are NOT questioning YOUR beliefs. They are questioning the religion itself.



And I believe it.



Are you kidding? Most westerners won’t even give pantheist the courtesy of even being valid much less discuss it.



Those ARE my beliefs Mr. Spider.

Christianity seems to have absolutely NO PROBLEM whatsoever SHOVING their beliefs down the throats of scientists, gays, and anyone else who disagrees with them or who hasn’t yet been “Saved”.

And then they are the first to scream foul when someone starts pointing out the FLAWS in their belief system.

I’m sorry Mr. Spider but you are WRONG to believe that people should just sit back and let Christianity dictate morals, lifestyles, and educational curriculum.

You’ve been on here for quite some time and you haven’t made a convincing case for the religion yet. All of you explanations are contradictive and circular based sole on posting Scripture. Jesus loves us this we know for the Bible tells us so!!!

Yeah right.



I think Creativesoul has already made it perfectly clear that he has already been ‘saved’. As has Wouldee and a few others. Obviously an understanding of your precise interpretation of the Bible it not required for salvation.

Moreover, if you are out to ‘save’ people why don’t you asked them ahead of time if they need to be ‘saved’? That might save you a lot of wasted time.

Personally, I don’t believe that religion discussion forums are the right place to be practicing evangelism. Or at least if you are going to use these forums for your own personal pulpit and church, then you should do so openly. Instead of pretending that you are willing to discuss religion, why not just start a thread for “Spider’s Evangelical Mission” and openly admit that you aren’t here to discuss but to ‘save’ people and convert them to Christianity.

That way you would save everyone a lot of headaches.

I promise that I won’t post in your evangelical thread.

I’m here to discuss the “What if’s”.

What if the Bible is wrong?
What if Jesus wasn’t God?
Is it possible that Jesus was God in a differnet way than previously thought (like maybe pantheism)

These are all VALID question for a religion forum. But if you are going to be offended by such questions, or take the ‘blind faith’ approach to ‘defining’ the status quo, then you shouldn’t participate in those discussions.

Discussion forums aren’t about ‘defending’ our beliefs. They are supposed to be about having an open mind to other possibilities.

Or just chit-chat like the Christian Coffeehouse thread. I never go in there.

I’m interested in asking questions out of the norm.

What if,…..what we were taught to be true is not true?

Those are the questions that intrigue me.

But you find them insulting.

If you are hear to save souls and preach then PLEASE start an evangelical thread and run an online forum church if that’s your desire. I promise I won’t post in it.